24 replies to this topic

[MECHL0VIN]

Hello everyone. I hope you're well and having fun.

- I have this build in mind but I can't seem to find the mech to support it? or because I'm not very knowledgeable.

equipment: AMS, EMC and Active probe
weapons: 2 ER PPC. 2 LRM20 or 2 LRM15

I don't mind if the mech is medium or heavy. which mech should I try this with? kindly help a new player thanx !

Edited by el3omda, 11 February 2022 - 05:27 AM.

[TheCaptainJZ]

el3omda, on 11 February 2022 - 05:23 AM, said:

Hello everyone. I hope you're well and having fun.

- I have this build in mind but I can't seem to find the mech to support it? or because I'm not very knowledgeable.

equipment: AMS, EMC and Active probe
weapons: 2 ER PPC. 2 LRM20 or 2 LRM15

I don't mind if the mech is medium or heavy. which mech should I try this with? kindly help a new player thanx !

You may not find that to be an effective build, but you'd have to go with an Assault mech for that kind of loadout and probably Clan. Also, Active Probe is not very useful if you have ECM. Many of it's benefits are removed when ECM is also present.

If you're going to do an LRMboat, you want TAG or Narc and drop the PPCs for backup lasers that don't have much tonnage. Or go PPCboat and drop the LRMs.

[An6ryMan69]

That loadout is a bit odd - not many mechs with AMS,ECM, and enough missile and energy hardpoints to do that with.

And you're better off deciding if you are using LRM's or PPCs as your primary weapon, and not trying to do both. Mechs with an "identity crisis" don't work great due to different play styles required - if you want to be either an LRM boat, or a PPC sniper, then do that one thing and do it right.

I'd suggest finding a chassis that is generally what you like and customizing that, rather than making up a hypothetical loadout and then going looking for a mech that can fit it.

Maybe a Timberwolf LRM/MLas build or an Archer LRM/MLas build might be a place to start?

Edited by An6ryMan69, 11 February 2022 - 11:15 AM.

[latinisator]

Hm, here are two builds, but you'd have to invest real money (or farm a sufficient amount of MC through events):

Archer hero
TEMPEST

Blood Asp (left torso of the hero Rancor)
BAS-A

The BAS is an assault Mech, yet it should play like an IS heavy.

Edited by latinisator, 11 February 2022 - 01:02 PM.

[ScrapIron Prime]

Mixing direct fire and LRMs is absolutely fine. You'll find its stronger than LRMs alone. And PPCs compliment the LRMs nicely as you can bust enemy ECM and then fire lurms.

And you're doing the best thing of all with those LRMs... firing direct instead of indirect. Indirect fire should be the icing on the cake, not the whole dessert!

But... like the man says... good, fast, cheap... pick any two. Let's drop the ECM idea and run with this:

Warhammer 7S

The 40% velocity boost makes those LRMs travel more rapidly, and the light PPCs are pretty much instant hits which can debuff ECM and allow you to lock a target, so fire LPPCs first, followed by lurms. Artemis is there because of direct fire. If you want to put up with worse missile spread, drop back to regular LRMs and use the tonnage and space for a Beagle Probe and a bit more ammo.

[Tesunie]

ScrapIron Prime, on 11 February 2022 - 01:06 PM, said:

Mixing direct fire and LRMs is absolutely fine. You'll find its stronger than LRMs alone. And PPCs compliment the LRMs nicely as you can bust enemy ECM and then fire lurms.

And you're doing the best thing of all with those LRMs... firing direct instead of indirect. Indirect fire should be the icing on the cake, not the whole dessert!

I can't agree more. Direct fire weapons mixed with LRMs can be a very effective combo. It opens up flexibility in how you may want to approach a target, and you can contribute to targets that you may not be able to see (yet).

I tend to find a mix of mid ranged lasers compliment LRM usage nicely, as the lasers want to be on target (no lead time) for their entire burn duration. Most mid range lasers (ERMLs and LL mixes, shooting at around 500-600m max) typically have a long enough burn time for you to get a lock, and your LRMs are more likely to hit it's target at those ranges.

Personally, I'm well known in my group for my mid range LRM/Laser medium mechs as a jumping fighter. My Huntsmen comes to mind, but I also do it with my catapult and some other mechs. Here I will often jump into the air, get a lock and shoot my lasers, and before I fall into cover I normally have a missile lock permitting me to shoot my LRMs before falling back into cover as a nice parting gift. If I start to run hot, I can sit back for a moment shooting indirect LRMs to cool down, or if someone gets into my face I can still easily defend myself with my (rather reasonable) direct fire weapons.

I'm not going to submit builds at this time, as I don't have them on hand at the moment and I've been... unable to play for some time (do to IRL stuff).


As a last parting concept, if you have the tonnage and find that multiple PPCs are running you too hot, an AC10 mixes very nicely with PPCs in their effective ranges. They have about the same lead needed. (Unless something has drastically changed and I wasn't aware of it.)

[MECHL0VIN]

ScrapIron Prime, on 11 February 2022 - 01:06 PM, said:

Mixing direct fire and LRMs is absolutely fine. You'll find its stronger than LRMs alone. And PPCs compliment the LRMs nicely as you can bust enemy ECM and then fire lurms.

And you're doing the best thing of all with those LRMs... firing direct instead of indirect. Indirect fire should be the icing on the cake, not the whole dessert!

But... like the man says... good, fast, cheap... pick any two. Let's drop the ECM idea and run with this:

Warhammer 7S

The 40% velocity boost makes those LRMs travel more rapidly, and the light PPCs are pretty much instant hits which can debuff ECM and allow you to lock a target, so fire LPPCs first, followed by lurms. Artemis is there because of direct fire. If you want to put up with worse missile spread, drop back to regular LRMs and use the tonnage and space for a Beagle Probe and a bit more ammo.

very good thank you !. affordable and gets the basic idea . appreciated

[Gagis]

Mechs like that would always be more effective dropping the PPC's for more missiles or dropping the missiles for more PPC's since all weapons sharing the same method of making hits is very powerful. Theres a handful of players writing on the forums claiming it works but they make up a very small minority that most players disagree with.

I'd add an active probe or ECM rather than a TC when using lurms though.

Edited by Gagis, 12 February 2022 - 05:29 AM.

[Tesunie]

Gagis, on 12 February 2022 - 05:29 AM, said:

I'd add an active probe or ECM rather than a TC when using lurms though.

Targeting computers do not aid LRMs, but in this case might be more helpful for the LPPCs on the build. Personally, I'd rather use that weight for more ammo or heat sinks... depending upon the build and situation.

[ScrapIron Prime]

Tesunie said:

1644685825[/url]' post='6445444']
Targeting computers do not aid LRMs, but in this case might be more helpful for the LPPCs on the build. Personally, I'd rather use that weight for more ammo or heat sinks... depending upon the build and situation.

It would have been another heat sink if the build had the crit slots, but it doesn’t. The TC does help with getting locks though, as the speed at which you lock up is dependent on the fraction of your max sensor range to target. A beagle probe helps more, obviously… a target at 500m will lock up faster if your max sensor range is 1250m than it will if your max sensor range is 1000m. (Not MUCH more and the lock can still be blocked, but hey.)

Edited by ScrapIron Prime, 12 February 2022 - 11:54 AM.

[Tesunie]

ScrapIron Prime, on 12 February 2022 - 11:53 AM, said:

It would have been another heat sink if the build had the crit slots, but it doesn’t. The TC does help with getting locks though, as the speed at which you lock up is dependent on the fraction of your max sensor range to target. A beagle probe helps more, obviously… a target at 500m will lock up faster if your max sensor range is 1250m than it will if your max sensor range is 1000m. (Not MUCH more and the lock can still be blocked, but hey.)

Are you referring to Target Lock and Data Gathering, or specifically Missile Locks? TCs and BAPs don't help with Missile Locks, but do with Data Gathering. You can always lock missiles without having the full data on the mech, and last I knew there is nothing which delays gaining a Target Lock if a target is within sensor range and visual to you.

TC and BAP do increase sensor ranges, which can mean getting locks on targets which are father away then otherwise without those gear... Which can help with ECMed mechs as that cuts the range you can get a sensor lock at.

Unless of course something really drastic has changed with the lock system and I wasn't aware of it.



However, in your case, the TC helps gain locks farther away, and helps with the LPPCs within the build in several other ways.

[Gagis]

sensor range does actually also help with lock speed, just very little.

Locks are slower based on how many % of your max range the target is at. There is a small benefit if your target counts as being at 800m/1200m instead of 800m/1000m but its usually not worth putting tomnage or skill points towards

[Aidan Crenshaw]

Sensor range influences Indirect Fire Locks, specifically, since the lock time on IDF locks is dependent on range to target versus sensor range ratio.

[katoult]

el3omda, on 11 February 2022 - 05:23 AM, said:

- I have this build in mind but I can't seem to find the mech to support it? or because I'm not very knowledgeable.
equipment: AMS, EMC and Active probe
weapons: 2 ER PPC. 2 LRM20 or 2 LRM15

For reference of mechs that would support it:

You can technically build it with everything asked for - with 2LRM15 - on a Thanatos Hangover (MC-only hero heavy mech) - but i would advise against it since it will be very hot and have relatively low ammunition.

It is also possible on an Atlas D-DC (assault mech) which has slightly less heat problems - and in theory could support the 2LRM20 variant - but would be slower and has the Atlas-specific problem of tube limiting.

[w0qj]

The key is to have enough DHS (Dual Heat Sinks), because both LRM15/LRM20 & any variety of PPC runs very hot.

And your heat cap directly limits your survival, as you literally cannot shoot a Light in front of you if you're already heat-capped!

Personally I would go for the 70ton Archer Tempest (ARC-T) with ECM, but even this 70ton mech cannot possibly cram in all the weapon/equipment you've asked for! (Only an Assault LRM boat can do this, and this forum hates Assault LRM boats!)

~ECM (1.5ton, 2 critical slots)
~BAP (1.5ton, 2 slots)
~AMS (1.0 to 1.5ton, 2 slots)
~Two (2) batteries of LRM15 or LRM20
~Two (2) PPC of some sort
~Lots of DHS for cooling, sustained fire


I've personally used ARC-T with 2x Artemis-LRM15 + Lasers.
https://mwo.nav-alph...=2686c26c_ARC-T
~No BAP (when nearby enemy jams your LRM targeting, just press J to disrupt enemy ECM, use lasers to hunt for enemy)
~4x MPL runs cooler than PPC; and grants you a second career of laser vomit after your LRM ammo runs out!
~No AMS; rather have DHS instead of AMS for more cooling
~You can switch Artemis-LRM15 to the regular LRM20 also; similar weight/slot requirements


This does not work for me; I suppose you can change all the Lasers into 1 or 2 Light-PPC on the IS side.
https://mwo.nav-alph...=59d4938f_ARC-T
~Improvement: With BAP
~Still missing AMS, which you need to swap out DHS for AMS (PPC runs too hot)
~Mech runs too hot for my taste (not enough DHS for Light-PPC cooling)
~around 1,000 rounds of LRM ammo, rather low for my taste
(Get the idea?)

Edited by w0qj, 14 February 2022 - 11:42 PM.

[katoult]

An6ryMan69, on 11 February 2022 - 11:14 AM, said:

And you're better off deciding if you are using LRM's or PPCs as your primary weapon, and not trying to do both. Mechs with an "identity crisis" don't work great due to different play styles required - if you want to be either an LRM boat, or a PPC sniper, then do that one thing and do it right.

The combination can somewhat work, but it usually requires a very aggressive playstyle and can be highly situational.

In general i wouldn't recommend it as you may fall into the trap of occupying a long-distance position in a bracket where the enemy can easily shift out of LOS or move slightly out of range if they halfway know what they're doing.


The below is the scorecard from a match just now (on a Tier 4 alt account) that went rather well - just to show that in theory it can work.

I was using the EBJ-B Ebon Jaguar we got in the November event outfitted with

• two cLRM20/Artemis (7t ammo)
  
• Active Probe
  
• a single cER PPC (3 DHS)

as a quickly thrown together build. You can also add an AMS losing some ammo and/or armor, no ECM though. The mech was partially skilled (28/91), although not even remotely for this particular build.

• There was some initial trading with blue on the E7 hill over to F6 at around 1000m against a limited number of longer-range mechs which went favorable in the sense of preventing the red team from occupying the usual sniping positions there, but otherwise did not have any relevance to the match.
  
• The match was then almost entirely fought assaulting the E6/F6 hill forcing a rather long CQC brawl with the team in close combat at between 150 and 250 meters distance.
  
• LRMs were primarily used in a defensive suppressive manner at close range, i.e. you push in with the PPC, break ECM if present and then pull back out while firing the LRMs.

[MECHL0VIN]

w0qj, on 14 February 2022 - 07:49 PM, said:

The key is to have enough DHS (Dual Heat Sinks), because both LRM15/LRM20 & any variety of PPC runs very hot.

And your heat cap directly limits your survival, as you literally cannot shoot a Light in front of you if you're already heat-capped!

Personally I would go for the 70ton Archer Tempest (ARC-T) with ECM, but even this 70ton mech cannot possibly cram in all the weapon/equipment you've asked for! (Only an Assault LRM boat can do this, and this forum hates Assault LRM boats!)

~ECM (1.5ton, 2 critical slots)
~BAP (1.5ton, 2 slots)
~AMS (1.0 to 1.5ton, 2 slots)
~Two (2) batteries of LRM15 or LRM20
~Two (2) PPC of some sort
~Lots of DHS for cooling, sustained fire


I've personally used ARC-T with 2x Artemis-LRM15 + Lasers.
https://mwo.nav-alph...=2686c26c_ARC-T
~No BAP (when nearby enemy jams your LRM targeting, just press J to disrupt enemy ECM, use lasers to hunt for enemy)
~4x MPL runs cooler than PPC; and grants you a second career of laser vomit after your LRM ammo runs out!
~No AMS; rather have DHS instead of AMS for more cooling
~You can switch Artemis-LRM15 to the regular LRM20 also; similar weight/slot requirements


This does not work for me; I suppose you can change all the Lasers into 1 or 2 Light-PPC on the IS side.
https://mwo.nav-alph...=59d4938f_ARC-T
~Improvement: With BAP
~Still missing AMS, which you need to swap out DHS for AMS (PPC runs too hot)
~Mech runs too hot for my taste (not enough DHS for Light-PPC cooling)
~around 1,000 rounds of LRM ammo, rather low for my taste
(Get the idea?)

thanx for the builds and the info ! at first I wanted to be backline only because I get hammered every time i expose myself even a little . probably because I'm new and not very experienced in brawling. but I love the archer build with the 4 medium lasers support and incase I find myself ambushed or pushed. flexibility is good i guess and not too demanding heat wise

[TheCaptainJZ]

el3omda, on 15 February 2022 - 04:06 AM, said:

thanx for the builds and the info ! at first I wanted to be backline only because I get hammered every time i expose myself even a little . probably because I'm new and not very experienced in brawling. but I love the archer build with the 4 medium lasers support and incase I find myself ambushed or pushed. flexibility is good i guess and not too demanding heat wise

I understand where you are coming from and I think you'll be happy with LRMs as a primary weapon and lasers as your backup. Something like the stock loadout of a Catapult. That said, LRMs become less effective against better opponents. This game revolves around direct fire for maximum effect.

[latinisator]

@ LRMs:

Also make sure that you are not hanging in the back. LRMs are imho best at around 300-ish meters since the travel time to the target will be significantly shortened compared to the max range AND you *could* share some armor AND you have some team mates around in case a light wants to go in for a little dance.

[Tesunie]

latinisator, on 15 February 2022 - 11:22 AM, said:

@ LRMs:

Also make sure that you are not hanging in the back. LRMs are imho best at around 300-ish meters since the travel time to the target will be significantly shortened compared to the max range AND you *could* share some armor AND you have some team mates around in case a light wants to go in for a little dance.

I personally find 600m and closer is a good range bracket for them. The closer to the minimum range you are, the better they tend to work. Just to give a more "effective" range for the system.