64 replies to this topic

[martian]

Remington1911, on 28 December 2021 - 05:25 AM, said:

MG's are broken, and I do play LT mechs with a bucket of them on it. One issue that is really overlooked is they NEVER JAM. UAC, yup they jam. Rotary AC, you bet they jam. Lasers even cool down and don't fire as long as you hold the button....but the MG it never jams, and you can run 8000 rounds and never lift your finger.

Do not forget that MGs are very short ranged weapons - 130 m is not too much. I think that when you are talking about their pros, you should mention their cons too.

Remington1911, on 28 December 2021 - 05:25 AM, said:

My thoughts are to give them say 300 round belts. Then a 20sec reload time. Force them to back away.

I do not think that such 20 seconds cooldown would help the viability of MGs.

Remington1911, on 28 December 2021 - 05:25 AM, said:

Nothing like dancing around a heavy or assault and shooting their legs off.

And what are those heavy or assault 'Mechs doing, while you are shooting their legs off? Because, you know, heavy and Assault 'Mechs can target light 'Mechs in return.

Plus, a leg of the Atlas BattleMech has 103 points of armor and 42 points of internal structure. You need more than just one or two seconds to remove it.

Remington1911, on 28 December 2021 - 05:25 AM, said:

It is fun, but it also is a very broken mechanic. We have had many threads on it and the "Cauldron" (learned that not long ago) will fight this tooth and nail.

Have you actually discussed with them your opinion on MGs? They have their own Discord.

Remington1911, on 28 December 2021 - 05:25 AM, said:

MG's have made me rage quit on an equal scale to the stupid number of LRM's in the game....fix these two items and I think you would keep the new players that are coming to your game....as is I think they are walking.

I am not sure if there is "stupid number of LRMs" in the game.

Anyway, if you have some problems with LRMs, you can mitigate their effect with:

• equipping AMS
  
• equipping ECM
  
• proper positioning
  
• etc.

.

Remington1911, on 28 December 2021 - 05:25 AM, said:

I know I (a new player) have gotten so sick of the wolfpacks of LT's spraying MG rounds at you while you try to hide from so many LRM's they block out the sun you just alt tab as there is not one thing you can do.

Stay with the team. That way you can protect your team mates backs and they will protect yours.

The worst thing that you can do is when you resign.

Remington1911, on 28 December 2021 - 05:25 AM, said:

The LT's also need their armor cut as well, one solid hit from any heavy weapon should ruin their day, as is they just keep running.

It is broken.

Pardon?

The freshly bought Piranha has the default armor value of 128 points, plus a few points of armor quirks. Taking Heavy Gauss Rifle shot to any location means that you lose all (or almost all) armor on that location and you know that the next serious shot will remove that section alltogether.

Anyway, the right thread for the "Nerf Lights" discussion is here: Light Mechs Are Screwed Up

[Bud Crue]

Remington1911, on 28 December 2021 - 05:25 AM, said:

MG's are broken, and I do play LT mechs with a bucket of them on it. One issue that is really overlooked is they NEVER JAM. UAC, yup they jam. Rotary AC, you bet they jam. Lasers even cool down and don't fire as long as you hold the button....but the MG it never jams, and you can run 8000 rounds and never lift your finger.

My thoughts are to give them say 300 round belts. Then a 20sec reload time. Force them to back away.

Nothing like dancing around a heavy or assault and shooting their legs off.

It is fun, but it also is a very broken mechanic. We have had many threads on it and the "Cauldron" (learned that not long ago) will fight this tooth and nail.

MG's have made me rage quit on an equal scale to the stupid number of LRM's in the game....fix these two items and I think you would keep the new players that are coming to your game....as is I think they are walking.

I know I (a new player) have gotten so sick of the wolfpacks of LT's spraying MG rounds at you while you try to hide from so many LRM's they block out the sun you just alt tab as there is not one thing you can do.

The LT's also need their armor cut as well, one solid hit from any heavy weapon should ruin their day, as is they just keep running.

It is broken.

I get owned by lights and the mediums that are light-ish (Cicadas, Assassins, Arctic Wolves ) all the time, but in terms of wolf packs that I fear the most it isn’t anything running machine guns, its the damn spl Fleas, and the laser vomit Piranhas, those stinking Black Lanner, the seeming indestructible Firestarters, and of late the SRM Myst Lynx’s, that seem to push me towards rage quitting the most (in no particular order). MG boats, just don’t do enough damage, quickly enough to consistently get me riled up, pus the Lynx and Viper versions are easily dis-armed, and the Piranha fragile enough for even me to occasionally kill. They’re annoying to be sure, and in late game situations where you are torn up they can eat you alive, but so can just about any other build.

When dropping as a group we have been occasionally running as a three-four man with the new Vipers and honestly it’s been hit and miss. Push to early into the enemy back side, get spotted, or fail to notice that there was an extra mech back there, and you lose three-four mechs for your team and take maybe one of the enemy with you.

And not to get too far off topic, but if LRMS are a problem, I highly recommend any of the multiple AMS variants. Jester is my go to. AMS plus cover and you soon won’t even need to use any skill points in scouting to deal with them.

[Der Geisterbaer]

So you're basically just repeating yourself from a different thread ... So I guess I'm allowed to do more or less the same

Remington1911 said:

MG's are broken,

Claim? ... check
Proof? ... we'll see

Remington1911 said:

and I do play LT mechs with a bucket of them on it.

You playing such mechs regularly does not prove your claim. So we're talking a form of reverse non-sequitur.

Remington1911 said:

One issue that is really overlooked is they NEVER JAM. UAC, yup they jam. Rotary AC, you bet they jam.

You tried this fallacious (false equivalence) argument before:
ACs still never jam, LB-Xs still never jam, Gauss rifles still never jam.

Remington1911 said:

Lasers even cool down and don't fire as long as you hold the button....

And another false equivalence that leads ...

Remington1911 said:

but the MG it never jams,

... into yet another non-sequitur and ...

Remington1911 said:

and you can run 8000 rounds and never lift your finger.

... another one. In other words: None of your incorrect comparisons do logically lead into a conclusion where Battletech machine guns not jamming and having no cooldowns is "broken" or "unbalanced". In addition to that you're once again ignoring that those machine guns have extremely low ranges when compared against the vast majority of your comparision objects and have massively toned down relative damage values when compared to their table top counterparts.

Remington1911 said:

My thoughts are to give them say 300 round belts.

Ignoring the fact that PGI would have to program a 300 round belt that actually works per individual machine gun (because 12 machine guns would "logically" have each their own 300 round belts and not share one singular belt) for a second and let's investigate your idea: So basically you're saying that a machine gun in MW:O should be able to sustain 300 x 0.1s [= the current "recyle" rate"] which equals 30s of uninterrupted fire. I won't even dare to ask under which gameplay situation any machine gun carrying mech in general and the Light mechs that you are so upset about in particular can actually engage in 30s of uninterrupted engagement at roughly 100m without being shot to pieces.

But let's not develve on this to long and ask ourselves this: What exactly is supposed to happen when a machine gun carrying mech has accumulated those 30s of weapon fire in two or more engagements? Well, here you want to make things even worse because ...

Remington1911 said:

Then a 20sec reload time.

... you seriously suggest a weapon "cooldown" that is 400% higher than the cooldown of the "slowest" weapon a.k.a. Gauss rifle. A weapon that by comparison has 261% the DPS of a machine gun and rougly 1300% of the latters range.

Remington1911 said:

Force them to back away.

I guess that's your personal idea of balance? ~laugh~

Remington1911 said:

Nothing like dancing around a heavy or assault and shooting their legs off.

I guess you'll now claim that you do so regularly with high success rates?

Remington1911 said:

It is fun, but it also is a very broken mechanic.

You have repeated that "broken" claim now quite a few times. Unfortunately you still haven't provided any proof for said claim.

Remington1911 said:

We have had many threads on it

Oh indeed, there were many threads where people - including you - came in and declared their personal opinion of things allegedly being broken as truth / fact and when pressured to provide actual proof have yet to deliver.

Remington1911 said:

and the "Cauldron" (learned that not long ago) will fight this tooth and nail.

Let me put it this way: It doesn't take being a member of the Cauldron (which I'm for example not) to see that the reasoning behind your opinion is just as flawed as your suggested solutions are.

Remington1911 said:

MG's have made me rage quit on an equal scale to the stupid number of LRM's in the game....

At least you're now admitting that you're emotionally driven here and not by actual facts,

Remington1911 said:

fix these two items and I think you would keep the new players that are coming to your game....as is I think they are walking.

So you're alledging that player retention would be higher if machine guns and LRMs were to "suck" more than they already do ... understood. I guess we can be glad that MW:O machine guns do not have the same relative damage values when compared against AC2s - as they should "by lore" - and LRM lock on has been nerfed to the degrees it has been before you joined this game. You would probaly walk instantly.

Remington1911 said:

The LT's also need their armor cut as well, one solid hit from any heavy weapon should ruin their day, as is they just keep running.

And again: We can totally talk about Light mechs having their doubled armor values reduced right after we also reduce all other mechs doubled armor values.

Remington1911 said:

It is broken.

Repeating your claim doesn't make it more true but ultimately an appeal to stone / argumentum ad lapidem

Edited by Der Geisterbaer, 28 December 2021 - 09:54 AM.

[pattonesque]

this thread is basically "I got killed by a machine gun mech which either shot me in the back and I forgot to turn around or shot me in the legs and I panicked too hard to hit them"

[Remington1911]

pattonesque, on 28 December 2021 - 06:31 AM, said:

this thread is basically "I got killed by a machine gun mech which either shot me in the back and I forgot to turn around or shot me in the legs and I panicked too hard to hit them"

Or, I have killed with machine guns and while it was fun don't think it is the way the game should be played.

As I am a noob, is there a built in feature to record your games for posting, I will be happy to.

[pbiggz]

Remington1911, on 29 December 2021 - 04:48 AM, said:

Or, I have killed with machine guns and while it was fun don't think it is the way the game should be played.

As I am a noob, is there a built in feature to record your games for posting, I will be happy to.

Yeah nobody's buying the faux "I think I am overpowered" act.

[pattonesque]

Remington1911, on 29 December 2021 - 04:48 AM, said:

Or, I have killed with machine guns and while it was fun don't think it is the way the game should be played.

As I am a noob, is there a built in feature to record your games for posting, I will be happy to.

why don't you think getting killed by machine guns is legitimate? they're extremely short-range and require you to stare to do your damage. Since you're new I'll clarify -- If a weapon requires you to stare at the enemy without twisting in response to damage, that is a significant drawback to said weapon.

Is it just the fact that they're called machine guns? If they were called something else, like some weapon that doesn't exist in real life, would you have the same issue?

[martian]

Remington1911, on 29 December 2021 - 04:48 AM, said:

Or, I have killed with machine guns and while it was fun don't think it is the way the game should be played.

Machine Guns of any variety are perfectly legal weapon system.

Remington1911, on 29 December 2021 - 04:48 AM, said:

As I am a noob, is there a built in feature to record your games for posting, I will be happy to.

No, you need some external recording software.

[Der Geisterbaer]

Remington1911 said:

Or, I have killed with machine guns

And now you're trying to change your narrative. Nobody doubted that you successfully killed opposing mechs with machine guns. The doubt is about your claims of consistantly doing so by running into a group 2+ heavies / assaults and spending there 10+ seconds where you leg them (after chewing through previously undamaged leg armor) or leave them with newly redened armor sections and then running away practically unscathed.

Remington1911 said:

and while it was fun don't think it is the way the game should be played.

There still seems to be a severe cognitive dissonance at play: You consider the alledged "overpowered" machine gun gameplay of certain lights mechs as "fun" and at the same time it supposedly is "wrong" in terms of how this game "should be played". These mindsets are fundamentally at odds with each other.

Btw. where exactly do you take your ideas about "how this game should be played" from to begin with?
What's inappropriate about getting killed by Battletech machine guns that are officially supposed to be anti-mech / anti-tank weapons?

Remington1911 said:

As I am a noob, is there a built in feature to record your games for posting, I will be happy to.

No built-in feature in MW:O. You'll have to find external tools ... be it something like NVIDIA's Shadowplay (requires an NVIDIA graphics card) or OBS Studio (which might be a tad tricky to set up without a proper tutorial).

Edited by Der Geisterbaer, 29 December 2021 - 08:14 AM.

[Primal Fusion]

IDK i think this is one of those strong on paper, balanced in real world play. FYI HMG gets upto 2.6 dps on certain mechs & a Viper build for example can get 12 HMGs with 18 dps & generate 0 heat while doing so, that could be an atlas's back CT in 4-6s depending on back armor/skills.
With that being said feel free to try it out for yourself, i don't know if you will find consistant "OP" results doing so but if you do be sure to post the videos and prove everyone wrong.

Edited by Primal Fusion, 01 January 2022 - 12:36 AM.

[Blood Rose]

Primal Fusion, on 01 January 2022 - 12:31 AM, said:

IDK i think this is one of those strong on paper, balanced in real world play. FYI HMG gets upto 2.6 dps on certain mechs & a Viper build for example can get 12 HMGs with 18 dps & generate 0 heat while doing so, that could be an atlas's back CT in 4-6s depending on back armor/skills.
With that being said feel free to try it out for yourself, i don't know if you will find consistant "OP" results doing so but if you do be sure to post the videos and prove everyone wrong.

The problem is that you have to get within range and then facetime the enemy for that build to work. Meanwhile most other loadouts can peek-a-boom or boom and zoom.

[Curccu]

Blood Rose, on 01 January 2022 - 09:44 AM, said:

The problem is that you have to get within range and then facetime the enemy for that build to work. Meanwhile most other loadouts can peek-a-boom or boom and zoom.

That viper is designed to kill that escort mode atlas that doesn't shoot back... totally OP against it.

[Primal Fusion]

Blood Rose, on 01 January 2022 - 09:44 AM, said:

The problem is that you have to get within range and then facetime the enemy for that build to work. Meanwhile most other loadouts can peek-a-boom or boom and zoom.

I ain't saying it works lol, don't misunderstand my post the OP is the one saying machine guns are overpowered i'm asking him to show us and i've presented one of the heaviest MG builds(12 Heavy MGS), i fully expect him to get dunked.

Also a good player in a pug game could make it work(less so the weapons and more so skill differences), lights/quick meds don't face tank stuff u get the back deal your damage and get out before they get a beat on you, unless its a bad assault player in which case u can circle and take no damage, Viper is decently tanky(50+ Torso and legs for surviving double heavy gauss)&fast(around 140kph).
Maybe the OP kills one assault but if he's smart he'll realize he could get far more done with other weapons and MG's are in fact not overpowered.

Edited by Primal Fusion, 01 January 2022 - 12:23 PM.

[CFC Conky]

I’ve got the perfect solution.

Since some players claim machine guns do too much damage, let’s stop calling them machine guns and start calling them…wait for it….

Micro auto-cannons.

Ta-Da! Problem solved!

Good hunting,
CFC Conky

[ThreeStooges]

op:mgs are op!
rvn 4x lct 1v and every other mech with 2 bals slots like the 65 ton heavy cptl-k2:wuuuutttttt???? When?

Guy in space bar:Let me tell ya I once killed a whole lance of atlas with just two light machine funs and an er-small laser with only 2,000 rounds of ammo made by Nerf Ammo Inc.

The bartender: Right, and my tag laser cockpit killed a king crab at 900m in heavy snow storm in -80c on frozen night city solaris sixteen.

[PocketYoda]

Remington1911, on 29 December 2021 - 04:48 AM, said:

Or, I have killed with machine guns and while it was fun don't think it is the way the game should be played.

As I am a noob, is there a built in feature to record your games for posting, I will be happy to.

You are wasting your breath here, they like the overpowered advantage and the people here will refute you forever, they do not want to see their beloved broken light mechs revoked again..

CFC Conky, on 01 January 2022 - 03:19 PM, said:

I’ve got the perfect solution.

Since some players claim machine guns do too much damage, let’s stop calling them machine guns and start calling them…wait for it….

Micro auto-cannons.

Ta-Da! Problem solved!

Good hunting,
CFC Conky

Thats pretty much what they are.. nothing is more powerful in close range.. not even SRMs

Edited by Nomad Tech, 01 January 2022 - 05:51 PM.

[pattonesque]

Nomad Tech, on 01 January 2022 - 05:49 PM, said:

You are wasting your breath here, they like the overpowered advantage and the people here will refute you forever, they do not want to see their beloved broken light mechs revoked again..



Thats pretty much what they are.. nothing is more powerful in close range.. not even SRMs

Lights have the lowest win rate and average match score out of all weight classes. If they were OP and broken, why is this the case?

[YueFei]

Nomad Tech, on 01 January 2022 - 05:49 PM, said:

You are wasting your breath here, they like the overpowered advantage and the people here will refute you forever, they do not want to see their beloved broken light mechs revoked again..

I've been arguing that Lights and MGs aren't OP. You assert it's because I like the "overpowered advantage"... when I don't even play Lights. This is easily verifiable by looking up my stats. Explain that.

I'll save you the trouble: you can't. You're just concocting wild conspiracy theories here.

Lemme guess, you think COVID is a hoax, too?

Quote

Thats pretty much what they are.. nothing is more powerful in close range.. not even SRMs

As someone that's been using SRMs for a long time... this ain't true. SRMs let you bomb and maneuver. MGs require you to stare, and if your target wiggles and twists, that damage splatters all over the place. With SRMs, if your target screws up their timing or defensive posture for just a moment, that one moment is all you need. A "contact shot" with SRMs is essentially instant PPFLD.

For that matter, the reverse is also true. As long as your armor isn't stripped open, defending against MGs gives enormous margin for error. You just shoot your own volley and then spaz out on your WASD keys and your mouse, and you're gonna be fine as the MG damage washes over your whole mech. If I turn a corner against an SRM bomber and I'm even a tiny bit slow on the reaction, that volley will open a shoulder up in a single blast.

[martian]

Nomad Tech, on 01 January 2022 - 05:49 PM, said:

You are wasting your breath here, they like the overpowered advantage and the people here will refute you forever, they do not want to see their beloved broken light mechs revoked again..

1. If MGs are so overpowered, why is not the QP queue full of 'Mechs boating MGs?

2. How often do you actually play light 'Mechs to test your theory that light 'Mechs are so overpowered, broken and easy to play?

3. If light 'Mechs are so OP, why the game stats show that they have the worst K/D ratio, the worst W/L ratio and the worst average match score?

Anyway, if you would like to request the light 'Mechs to be nerfed, the right threads are here (Light Mechs Are Screwed Up) and here (Light Mechs Are ****).

Nomad Tech, on 01 January 2022 - 05:49 PM, said:

Thats pretty much what they are.. nothing is more powerful in close range.. not even SRMs

Seriously?

When using SRMs, you can unload a big alpha strike and torso twist, jump away or run away, or hide behind some suitable cover.

When using Machine Guns, you must stay in the near vicinity of the enemy 'Mech and you can not even torso twist, because you must keep your MGs pointing on him all the time to do some damage.

Almost forgot: SRMs have much greater optimal range than MGs (270m vs. 130m).

[pbiggz]

Nomad Tech, on 01 January 2022 - 05:49 PM, said:

You are wasting your breath here, they like the overpowered advantage and the people here will refute you forever, they do not want to see their beloved broken light mechs revoked again..



Thats pretty much what they are.. nothing is more powerful in close range.. not even SRMs

Lo and behold, we find ourselves here, yet again, watching the great Samial, Mechagnome, now Nomad Tech, lie through his teeth.