64 replies to this topic

[Meep Meep]

The only mg piranha that is remotely powerful with mg spam is with heavy mg. Light and normal mg even en mass simply do not have the dps to eat through armor fast enough. Thats why pir always use lasers to open a component so the mg crit tables work in their favor. The worst piranha is a full mg pir with no energy. But given the cauldron changes a pir simply isn't viable anymore due to how quickly laser vomit will gut them even with sweeping damage. I've taken to being a mid range skirmisher in them with er meds and some token mg for crit seeking open components mid to late game.

[Der Geisterbaer]

martian said:

Just say directly that you want to punish Piranha.

He wants to punish the PIR-1 and the Mist Lynxes that utilize the G arm pods ... like that pesky Mist Lynx that dared to YOLO it yesterday on River City by running straight into the murderball of mechs that his COR-6R was surrounded by and then first chewed through his right torso on front and then went to open up his entire back before one of his 6 team mates even bothered to take first defensive shots (ofc he himself didn't manage to actually shoot at the Lynx with his weapons) ... Once they did, the Lynx pilot dropped one arty strike and killed him before dying to the fire of those 6 of his team mates with the pleasure of knowing that he had done what he had set out to do.

I wonder if he's going to show you the result screen of that match and then spout about the OPness of Lights in general and MG boats in particluar.

[edit]
Well, I suppose I can do it myself instead and let anyone have their own thoughts there

Edited by Der Geisterbaer, 26 December 2021 - 06:05 AM.

[martian]

Der Geisterbaer, on 26 December 2021 - 02:09 AM, said:

He wants to punish the PIR-1 and the Mist Lynxes that utilize the G arm pods ... like that pesky Mist Lynx that dared to YOLO it yesterday on River City by running straight into the murderball of mechs that his COR-6R was surrounded by and then first chewed through is right torso on front and then went to open up his entire back before one of his 6 team mates even bothered to take first defensive shots (ofc he himself didn't manage to actually shoot at the Lynx with his weapons) ... Once they did, the Lynx pilot dropped one arty strike and killed him before dying to the fire of those 6 of his team mates with the pleasure of knowing that he had done what he had set out to do.

I wonder if he's going to show you the result screen of that match and then spout about the OPness of Lights in general and MG boats in particluar,

Oh, so this was it. O.K.

[Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie]

Nomad Tech, on 25 December 2021 - 07:56 PM, said:

Funny you quoted the two most "broken" mechs, almost like you know.

@Pir
yes. "broken" as in "gets whined about in the forums a lot, YET those who do complain ALWAYS don't pilot lights in the first place, and instead of improving their aim, situational awareness and knowledge in light in general type YET ANOTHER whinethread about"
the rest of us just shoots the little bugger, which is not too hard, considering it's toilet-paper-armour and miserable mobility for a light.

@Viper: it's new and ofc people want to drive their MG-Viper right now. but dude, if you consider that mech to be "good" or actually overperforming ..
I can't put that into half serious words right now ;D maybe stop smoking the xmas-tree, mate

[martian]

Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie, on 26 December 2021 - 05:38 AM, said:

@Viper: it's new and ofc people want to drive their MG-Viper right now. but dude, if you consider that mech to be "good" or actually overperforming ..

It seems to me that the Viper is prone to losing its arms.

[PsionicMantis]

The mg viper is one of my new favorite mechs. Got my first ace of spades with it. But it is nowhere near over performing, its flimsy as a light mech and i have to play with that in mind. Go for targets with open torso armor or when they are away from their team. Its a very ambush oriented playstyle for the mech and i love it.

[martian]

PsionicMantis, on 26 December 2021 - 10:00 AM, said:

The mg viper is one of my new favorite mechs. Got my first ace of spades with it. But it is nowhere near over performing, its flimsy as a light mech and i have to play with that in mind. Go for targets with open torso armor or when they are away from their team. Its a very ambush oriented playstyle for the mech and i love it.

... and it has got a neat livery.

[Castigatus]

martian, on 26 December 2021 - 10:02 AM, said:

... and it has got a neat livery.

Oh yeah, with a bit of colour manipulation you can get some amazing paint jobs on it.

[martian]

Castigatus, on 26 December 2021 - 10:10 AM, said:

Oh yeah, with a bit of colour manipulation you can get some amazing paint jobs on it.

I have kept the default Lapis lazuli colour.

[pattonesque]

just shoot the piranha folks

also just shoot the viper, it is a powerful mech up close and folks can juke with the JJs but it falls apart pretty easily

[Extra Guac]

If you think that any particular weapon system is too powerful... you should use it!

You'll either become an unstoppable killing machine, or you'll discover the downsides of that weapon system. Either way, you come out ahead!

[PocketYoda]

martian, on 25 December 2021 - 10:49 PM, said:

1. Piranha is a light 'Mech of the lowest weight class. It carries only 138 points of armor. It carries armament that forces it to engage from 130 metres or less.

All this in the game where 40-50 pinpoint alpha strikes coming often from the medium or long range are nothing unusual ... In plain English, many enemy 'Mechs can kill or cripple Piranha with one push of a button.

I suggest you take it and play 20-30 games in it to see with your own eyes how "broken" Piranha - and other light 'Mechs - really is.

2. The Viper - and I presume you are talking about the Loyalty VPR-F(L) configuration - is a fragile 'Mech. It offers just 8.5 tons of pod space. Its Machine Guns loadout forces it to engage from the close range and keep the entire 'Mech pointed towards the target for many seconds.

I suggest you take this Viper and play 20-30 games in it to see with your own eyes how "broken" this Loyalty Viper really is.

Yes keep up the misinfo.. someone might believe you.

[martian]

Nomad Tech, on 26 December 2021 - 09:14 PM, said:

Yes keep up the misinfo.. someone might believe you.

If you feel that I am spreading misinformation in any of my posts in this thread, feel free to correct me with the facts.

I recommend you start firing your 'Mech's guns as soon as you can see Piranha closing on you and continue firing until that lightly armoured Piranha is crippled or destroyed. Typical Piranha with the usual short range loadout of MGs, ER Smalls, HSLs and/or Micro lasers must move really close to get the most of his short range loadout, so you should be able to hit it.

[Meep Meep]

Nomad Tech, on 26 December 2021 - 09:14 PM, said:

Yes keep up the misinfo.. someone might believe you.

I see nothing in the post you quoted that is false?

[panzer1b]

MGs are fine, while not as scary to most people, i consider the laser feesh to be vastly scarier then anything with MGs, able to backstab your STs off with their 50 point alpha strikes, not to mention enough sustained DPS with those micros lasers to remain competitive even when heatcapped. 12MGs is only good against open targets which are basically kaput from anything with a 50 point laser burn anyways. 12 HMGs on the other hand give you 18DPS, but they are too heavy to bring on a feesh without sacirificing ammo and secondary lasers which are imo critical since you want that initial burn even if you get behind a target to openn the component up, same reason the popular MLX and ACH builds combine HMLs or other lasers with the MG arms to start the engagement with.

So yeah, they are agrevating when the crit rolls against you and your ST ends up loosing all the heavy lasers inside, but they suck against anything armored, and the damage is spread really badly by minimal twisting while you nail the light with 50+ laser damage (or instantly delete it with a ton of arm mounted UACs that they cant evade at facehugging range (the one thing i love about the MCII-B, deleted lights up close as you have full arm actuators in there). They are only truly effective at finishing hurt targets which would have already dropped soon regardless, or against the occasional guy that decides to go run off solo in a ERLL mech and cant effectively counter a fast moving light mech anyway.

[PocketYoda]

martian, on 26 December 2021 - 10:34 PM, said:

If you feel that I am spreading misinformation in any of my posts in this thread, feel free to correct me with the facts.

I recommend you start firing your 'Mech's guns as soon as you can see Piranha closing on you and continue firing until that lightly armoured Piranha is crippled or destroyed. Typical Piranha with the usual short range loadout of MGs, ER Smalls, HSLs and/or Micro lasers must move really close to get the most of his short range loadout, so you should be able to hit it.

Its a fact that all mechs boating Machine guns break the game in ways it was never designed to be.

[Der Geisterbaer]

Nomad Tech said:

Its a fact that all mechs boating Machine guns break the game in ways it was never designed to be.

And it's again time to make a reference to Inigo Montoya with a slightly altered version of a quote:

You Keep Using That Word ('fact' in this case). I Do Know That It Does Not Mean What You Think It Means

Largely ignoring the fallacious nature of your presentation I'll just tell you this (again):

What you presented there is not a "fact" but two of your personal "claims" based on your opinion (that some others even may or may not share) rolled into one statement. The primary claim being that "machine gun boating mechs do break this game" and the secondary claim being that this act pf breaking the game is a (known) fact.

In order for your secondary claim to truly become a "fact" you'd have to provide actual proof for your primary claim (instead of just stubbornly repeating your own claim to "prove" the claim itself which is yet another fallacy [begging the question]).

Therefore you're now (again) challenged to provide actual proof for your primary claim. Show us quantifiable data on how machine gun boating mechs do break the game and describe the ways of them doing so on the design level.

[Remington1911]

MG's are broken, and I do play LT mechs with a bucket of them on it. One issue that is really overlooked is they NEVER JAM. UAC, yup they jam. Rotary AC, you bet they jam. Lasers even cool down and don't fire as long as you hold the button....but the MG it never jams, and you can run 8000 rounds and never lift your finger.

My thoughts are to give them say 300 round belts. Then a 20sec reload time. Force them to back away.

Nothing like dancing around a heavy or assault and shooting their legs off.

It is fun, but it also is a very broken mechanic. We have had many threads on it and the "Cauldron" (learned that not long ago) will fight this tooth and nail.

MG's have made me rage quit on an equal scale to the stupid number of LRM's in the game....fix these two items and I think you would keep the new players that are coming to your game....as is I think they are walking.

I know I (a new player) have gotten so sick of the wolfpacks of LT's spraying MG rounds at you while you try to hide from so many LRM's they block out the sun you just alt tab as there is not one thing you can do.

The LT's also need their armor cut as well, one solid hit from any heavy weapon should ruin their day, as is they just keep running.

It is broken.

[martian]

Nomad Tech, on 28 December 2021 - 04:43 AM, said:

Its a fact that all mechs boating Machine guns break the game in ways it was never designed to be.

1. Post some offical source describing the original MWO game design and the role of Machine Guns in it, especially if many MGs are used on a single 'Mech.

2. After you do that, you should post some verifiable proofs showing how MG boating breaks the original design of MWO.

3. Until then, I will consider your claim "that all mechs boating Machine guns break the game" to be the expression of your personal feelings rather than "a fact".

4. I am still waiting for you to tell me what misinformation I was spreading in the post that you quoted..

[Remington1911]

martian, on 28 December 2021 - 05:37 AM, said:

1. Post some offical source describing the original MWO game design and the role of Machine Guns in it, especially if many MGs are used on a single 'Mech.

2. After you do that, you should post some verifiable proofs showing how MG boating breaks the original design of MWO.

3. Until then, I will consider your claim "that all mechs boating Machine guns break the game" to be the expression of your personal feelings rather than "a fact".

4. I am still waiting for you to tell me what misinformation I was spreading in the post that you quoted..

Makes no difference again, you know how they are IN THIS GAME, what they are elsewhere means nothing.

You know how people use them, you know how YOU use them and (I) know how (I) use them.....if you want to keep it lopsided for your own greed fine I have nothing for you. But if you can't see how it is not healthy then you are pretty blind to what happens in a game.