23 replies to this topic

[Czardread]

So guys, trying out new builds on the Shadowhawk 2k i got on the free mech event a few months back and wanna hear your thoughts and opinions on which you think it's better:

3 SNPPC with 16 DHS an a targeting computer mk1 or 2 HPPC with 15 DHS

in both cases the use would be roughly the same, poptarting around the 300-400 meters range.

Which you think would be better?

[martian]

Czardread, on 07 January 2022 - 10:59 AM, said:

3 SNPPC with 16 DHS an a targeting computer mk1 or 2 HPPC with 15 DHS

in both cases the use would be roughly the same, poptarting around the 300-400 meters range.

Which you think would be better?

Seems pretty obvious to me: Snub-nose PPC has the optimal range 270 metres. On 300-400 m you will do less damage than you expect.

On the other hand, Heavy PPC is effective up to 540 metres. Of course, there is the 90 m minimum range, but if you are going to snipe on 300-400 m, then the aforementioned minimal range is no big deal.

[Czardread]

martian, on 07 January 2022 - 11:16 AM, said:

Seems pretty obvious to me: Snub-nose PPC has the optimal range 270 metres. On 300-400 m you will do less damage than you expect.

On the other hand, Heavy PPC is effective up to 540 metres. Of course, there is the 90 m minimum range, but if you are going to snipe on 300-400 m, then the aforementioned minimal range is no big deal.

A fair point, i guess i should go with 200 ish to 400m, but yes, with the SNPPC i would need to be closer to be fully effective.

What i mean mostly is in the terms of efficiency, the 30 pinpoint damage of the HPPC or the 25.5 of the SNPPC + 9 splash

Edited by Czardread, 07 January 2022 - 11:46 AM.

[Sawk]

WOW --- med pulse lasers, and the speed works, and then PCC : )

SAWK

[CFC Conky]

Czardread, on 07 January 2022 - 11:36 AM, said:

A fair point, i guess i should go with 200 ish to 400m, but yes, with the SNPPC i would need to be closer to be fully effective.

What i mean mostly is in the terms of efficiency, the 30 pinpoint damage of the HPPC or the 25.5 of the SNPPC + 9 splash

A quick look at MechDB shows that the snub build has higher dps, but yes, outside of optimal range damage is reduced.

Good hunting,
CFC Conky

[Czardread]

Sawk, on 07 January 2022 - 05:15 PM, said:

WOW --- med pulse lasers, and the speed works, and then PCC : )

SAWK

I already have another SHD 2k i run with SRM6A and MED pulses. it's my favorite mech. lol

[KaptinOrk]

I'd take the HPPC version, <300m optimal range might be tough to deal with in the current snipey meta.

[ScrapIron Prime]

KaptinOrk, on 09 January 2022 - 10:10 AM, said:

I'd take the HPPC version, <300m optimal range might be tough to deal with in the current snipey meta.

If you're tempted for the 2 HPPC option, then there's no reason not to spend the extra ton and do 3 PPC instead. Same heat, 1 second less cooldown, same range, same damage, but you can do damage closer than 90m. That 90m dead zone on the HPPC will kill you, whereas with the PPC's you're doing at least half to 2/3 damage.

[KaptinOrk]

ScrapIron Prime, on 09 January 2022 - 07:10 PM, said:

If you're tempted for the 2 HPPC option, then there's no reason not to spend the extra ton and do 3 PPC instead. Same heat, 1 second less cooldown, same range, same damage, but you can do damage closer than 90m. That 90m dead zone on the HPPC will kill you, whereas with the PPC's you're doing at least half to 2/3 damage.

I keep trying to make HPPCs work, but they just seem inferior to LPPCs or standard PPCs when I'm looking at potential PPC boats.

[ScrapIron Prime]

KaptinOrk, on 10 January 2022 - 01:21 PM, said:

I keep trying to make HPPCs work, but they just seem inferior to LPPCs or standard PPCs when I'm looking at potential PPC boats.

There are a FEW instances where they make more sense, such as when you're shy one energy hardpoint, or when two of your energy hardpoints are MUCH higher than the others. But I changed my Triple HPPC Awesome out for a Quad PPC when the minimum range changed, and did similar trade outs to others.

A Catapult K2 comes to mind for the high mounts, as well as a Dragon 1N which has only 2 energy hardpoints but a beautiful 25% cooldown quirk!

Edited by ScrapIron Prime, 10 January 2022 - 08:39 PM.

[Sawk]

WOW you guys really need to stop telling folks to build boats, it really only works if you are in a team, the true way is to build a--------- 2 weapon system, like long range, and med range.
BOATS do not works, unless your wife and child agree to your death, close range is a team thing, sorry retired ARMY, please try a 2 weapon system. lazers work, 2 large 3 or 4 med, and use cover, hope you have good freinds.

SAWK

[ScrapIron Prime]

Sawk, on 12 January 2022 - 05:09 PM, said:

WOW you guys really need to stop telling folks to build boats, it really only works if you are in a team, the true way is to build a--------- 2 weapon system, like long range, and med range.
BOATS do not works, unless your wife and child agree to your death, close range is a team thing, sorry retired ARMY, please try a 2 weapon system. lazers work, 2 large 3 or 4 med, and use cover, hope you have good freinds.

SAWK

while I agree with you on principle, the trick is really to avoid doing a little damage at all ranges and create a sweet spot where you do a LOT of damage. Mixing weapon systems means you fight where they’re all able to do max damage.

[Ignatius Audene]

Sawk, on 12 January 2022 - 05:09 PM, said:

WOW you guys really need to stop telling folks to build boats, it really only works if you are in a team, the true way is to build a--------- 2 weapon system, like long range, and med range.
BOATS do not works, unless your wife and child agree to your death, close range is a team thing, sorry retired ARMY, please try a 2 weapon system. lazers work, 2 large 3 or 4 med, and use cover, hope you have good freinds.

SAWK

Pls dont spread misleading information in New player thread. Sure close range is very situational so for qp medium range is the easier choice. But splitting your ranges aka Frankenstein bracket mech most of times end in a mech not doing its job in 2 ranges. The mentioned laser mech bye the way is a medium range laser boat (ok ermed are prob better). Because the weapons support each other in the desired range bracket.

Edited by Ignatius Audene, 14 January 2022 - 03:03 AM.

[Sawk]

HMM something --- strange comes to mind, you can shoot large lazers at close range, and if you have a very fast Computer like me -- track and kill light legs, i almost always use long and med range , with a 2 button mouse.
AND i may take close range on light, PREFERED with a wingman, but maybe i should not be talking at all ?
SAWK

[Tarl Cabot]

Sawk, on 14 January 2022 - 05:03 PM, said:

HMM something --- strange comes to mind, you can shoot large lazers at close range, and if you have a very fast Computer like me -- track and kill light legs, i almost always use long and med range , with a 2 button mouse.
AND i may take close range on light, PREFERED with a wingman, but maybe i should not be talking at all ?
SAWK

iie.. A majority of my meds are at 2-3 weapon systems. On the K versions I have done both 1/weapon and 2-3weapon systems and my preference the 2-3 weapon systems. 2-3ERLL+ SRMs, LPPC+SRMs, 2-3SNPPC +SRM, ERPPCs. The ERPPCs setup, I dont remember if I had SRMs or note. I wished Chris had followed through with the isXL review/changes so it doesnt die to loss of 1st ST. I have a preference on the minimum speeds for mediums and they all wrap around the LFE. Had a few where I had forgotten I had added a isXL, dying when the RT ST was removed.

With that said, for beginners, it is a dang if you do, dang if you dont. If I didnt have any experience w/BT and the MPBT/MW series, it may be better to stick with one weapon group while building experience around heat management, ranges, what works and what doesnt work, aggressiveness or being passive/defensive/laidback type of player, or situational.

I think lot of it will dependent on the player's gaming background, many FPS, the players can only survive a few hits but many of those games are built around respawn. Also, a player may have the ability to swap out weapons on the go but very few games allow a player to fire multiple weapons with different ranges, cooldown, etc at the same time/weapon group.... So any discussions in the new player threads should likely revolve around that initially but add/increase the complexity by going with a 2-weapon platform, one for longer reasons then faster firing lesser heat, closer range weapons. It does not have to be either/or scenario but a gradual change.

[Sawk]

Well darn TARL CABOT, ok
I am a math teacher, with simple tools, your teaching rocket stuff, you know that hard to spell word physics, what do they have, most a slow computer, and a 2 button mouse. AM I WRONG

SAWK

[Tarl Cabot]

Hey now.. I am approaching 60... But reread the OP. He is asking questions about 3SNPPC vs 2HPPC. He is already boating, no other backup/secondary weaponry. So the others were not leading him towards the Dark he was already there staring back Even though newbies are already forced to utilize "Frankenstein" mechs, ie Trial mechs, and most of the current set of Trial mechs I do not like their setups. So some may wish to "simplify" their payload, something they may be more comfortable utilizing, something that would work better with a "two-button" mouse a HPPC for each mouse button... or 2SNPPC for first button then the third SSPPC on the second button, to help with heat management.

[Gagis]

Boating is simply superior. Having players like Sawk spout nonsense in the new player section is outright dangerous.

[Sawk]

ok let us simply spout out, clan mechs are better, let say--- someone BUYs and timberwolf prime, i would tell them take of the LRM 20s. and put on 2 LRM 15, and add the heat sinks, and make sure, your armor is up, and learn to turn--- with jump jets,
AND use the 4 er med lazer, and have leveled in a week or 2, i have over 20,000 drops and made star captain, in 2 clans, can you SAY the same, your challenge to a fight, one on one with me, or smoke a pipe of peace, choice can be tool.

SAWK

[Sawk]

hmm yes i am, i looked at leaderboard Gagis, you can-----not kill anyone, when you learn to kill 1 person PER match, it is not easy, look at me on the leaderboard, look at my past, it is about kills ---- and assist,

SAWK --- ps there are much more deadly folks then me