62 replies to this topic

[TELEFORCE]

I have nothing against groups in the normal queue. It's been my experience that groups have no meaningful influence in a match. There's that.

What I've found problematic is the ECM disparity among teams. The team with way more ECM wins more. And I'm not talking 4 ECM vs. 3 ECM - I'm talking one team with no ECM or one ECM and the other team has 3 or 4 ECM. Unfortunately I don't think differences in quirks between ECM chassis and non-ECM chassis are enough alone to make a difference. Information is ammunition after all, and if the other team is able to conceal that information effectively, which is even easier with more ECM to share among teammates, the easier it is to conceal movements and hamper target locks.

That said, I really don't expect any changes to matchmaking to even the ECM disparity, although it would be nice. I'll try to do my part and bring ECM whenever I can. But it's been my experience that ECM disparity is a problem in today's games.

Edited by TELEFORCE, 10 January 2022 - 02:33 PM.

[RickySpanish]

With the greatest respect, even IF ECM were super strong, surely a group would only make its use stronger? ECM is not as strong as people think it is. At higher tiers it is barely significant.

[Capt Deadpool]

If MM places more upper echelon players from within a tier against a team with lower echelon players within the same tier, one team will have an advantage due to tier system’s lack of granularity.

If skill level is evenly distributed between teams and one team has significantly more tonnage, that team may have an advantage.

If a map is chosen that favors a certain engagement distance, and one team has more builds that can engage at that distance, that team will have an advantage.

If one team has a group with synergized builds that coordinates effectively, that team may have an advantage.

If one team has a single player than can use their microphone to herd all the cats in roughly the same direction or get them to hold a tactically advantageous position, that team will have a significant advantage, if skill is evenly distributed.

Etc.

These are examples of advantages a team may have that could significantly outweigh which team has more ECM. In an imperfect world, there is no way to balance everything perfectly, but take solace in the rule of averages: sometimes more ecm/skill/tonnage/etc. will be on your team, and sometimes it will be on the other team.

[Heavy Money]

The team that fires their weapons the most and hits the most wins. Everything else is details.

[Sjorpha]

I have never felt that "ECM disparity" was a major factor behind who wins a match, not once.

It would be interesting to see statistics showing if it has a strong effect, but I doubt it does.

[justcallme A S H]

I knew from the thread title this thread was gonna deliver.

I was not disappointed.


So now match quality needs to dictate such that the MM needs to balance ECM Mechs out? Lol... Just wow.

[pattonesque]

ECM is nice to have but I don't know that it's THE difference-maker

[1453 R]

Heavy Money's got the right of it. Shoot more, win more. Waffle around being a chickendicking ambulatory saurkraut who waits nine minutes before engaging your weapons systems and screaming like a hamstrung hyena any time enemy weapons fire comes within five hundred meters of you, win less. That's really all there is to it.

Edited by 1453 R, 10 January 2022 - 06:12 PM.

[crazytimes]

Perhaps don't try running non-LOS LRM builds.

[Bassault]

1453 R, on 10 January 2022 - 06:12 PM, said:

Heavy Money's got the right of it. Shoot more, win more. Waffle around being a chickendicking ambulatory saurkraut who waits nine minutes before engaging your weapons systems and screaming like a hamstrung hyena any time enemy weapons fire comes within five hundred meters of you, win less. That's really all there is to it.

You're in tier 4 right? Can you start recording the gameplay footage of all these silly posters in the same tier so we can see what they're actually doing wrong?

[1453 R]

Would it really matter, even if I could?

I know my own problems - overaggression, tunnel-visioning on a target, and generally mediocre positioning. I'm bad at being where I'm supposed to be because I generally decide that I'm not engaging the enemy enough instead or I see a wounded/isolated victim and chase it too hard, so I end up overextending or committing to bad thrusts and getting scraped. I'm slowly - slowly - getting better about it, but I'm also suspecting that my currently-trending-upwards PSR is a case of "anybody does better with a mostly-meta assault superbrawler" given that nine out of ten of my recent games have been in Scorch and literally nothing except an Annihilator survives close contact with Scorch. I've dueled a brawler Atlas, a quad-UAC10s Bad Touch Bear, and a spikey lasers-and-**** Dire Whale to death, nothing stops Scorch except attrition or misplay that puts me in front of a firing line.

God I love that ridiculous machine.

Anyways. I know the solutions to my issues would be extensive watching/spectating of compy/high tier players or seeking out a high-tier drop buddy to follow around for a few weeks, but frankly that's too much like work. I work ten-hour shifts most days as it is, when I hit the 'Play' button I wanna shoot robits, not Train my Skillz.

Most of the yaybos posting garbage? They're not even a fraction as aware of their personal suck as I am, they have no idea what they're doing wrong. Most of them refuse to admit they're doing anything wrong at all - their low tier is the game's fault, not theirs. Or the Cauldron's fault. Or the fault of all the tryhards in the higher tiers. Or whatever else. I could secure a thousand hours of secondhand footage per yaybo and it wouldn't do anybody any good. People HAVE posted videos, and A S H has gone over them and given them advice on where they dun goofed. Three gusses how they took it. And frankly I've only seen one(1) player take the man up on his mostly-standing offer of observing their match footage and giving them pointers.

Yaybos will be yaybos until they make the conscious decision to admit their own suck and stop being yaybos.

[Kanil]

... and if you just want the footage for entertainment value, then you should really be looking at tier 5. That's where the real lulz are at.

[Meep Meep]

Afaik ecm doesn't stop you from shooting mechs in the face with your pewpew.

[ScrapIron Prime]

It doesn't stop you from shooting them with LRMs either if you extend your sensor range and get closer. Wub wub whoosh.

[pbiggz]

You're right, Groups are not the problem!

You're wrong, ECM is also not the problem.

[Capt Deadpool]

1453 R, on 10 January 2022 - 08:05 PM, said:

Would it really matter, even if I could?

I know my own problems - overaggression, tunnel-visioning on a target, and generally mediocre positioning. I'm bad at being where I'm supposed to be because I generally decide that I'm not engaging the enemy enough instead or I see a wounded/isolated victim and chase it too hard, so I end up overextending or committing to bad thrusts and getting scraped.

A humble suggestion: you can come at it from two directions at the same time. Keep working in your weaknesses that you are aware of, but maybe also try playing chassis that are more suited to your playstyle.

Funny that we are in a thread about ECM, but a fast medium or light with ECM, or even a faster heavy without ECM like a linebacker or dragon (swapping ECM for more armor) is going to be more forgiving of over-extending and being out of position. More speed and either the armor of a heavy or ECM cover can buy you a few extra seconds to escape when you find yourself in a bad spot.

My 2 cents

[LordNothing]

ecm really isnt an issue if you use direct fire weapons. my guns, lasers, ppcs and unguided missiles need no locks. ive even been known to dumbfire atms in a pinch.

[Eider]

weird how everyone in this community is in constant denial, personally i hate stealth armor as it has no draw backs. What? its suppose to stop heat dissipation? yea it doesnt just slows it down. And people wonder why the game isnt so successful. If someone said the sky was blue a lot of you guys would scream it was red because tier rank elo nonsense lol

[MW Waldorf Statler]

is only a Problem with LRM only Loosing Builds, all others ..im can shoot on what im can see, and im want in all directions for enemys and thats in more as only 400m...LRMs good as secundary System ,not as Mainbuild.

Edited by MW Waldorf Statler, 11 January 2022 - 03:10 AM.

[Weeny Machine]

Heavy Money, on 10 January 2022 - 04:32 PM, said:

The team that fires their weapons the most and hits the most wins. Everything else is details.

20 headshots will win against 324 hits spread well over all mechs