112 replies to this topic

[foamyesque]

Blood Rose, on 09 February 2022 - 02:25 PM, said:

DATA, you seem to forget that you are one of the best Light Mech jocks in the game and indeed, one of the rare few able to do incredible amounts of damage in them. Most of us mere mortals struggle to break into triple digits of damage dealt whilst piloting a light.

Triple digits is relatively easy; don't undersell what lights can do like that. Sometimes you mess up and somebody tears your leg off from a million miles with PPCs or gauss, or you round a corner into a pinpoint Fafnir or something, but as long as you have reasonable play, 200-300 damage is relatively straight-forward, even easy, on a variety of chassis.

Edited by foamyesque, 12 February 2022 - 01:00 AM.

[Curccu]

foamyesque, on 11 February 2022 - 03:13 PM, said:

Triple digits is relatively easy; don't undersell what lights can do like that. Sometimes you mess up and somebody tears your leg off from a million miles with PPCs or gauss, or you round a corner into a pinpoint Fafnir or something, but as long as you have reasonable play, 200-300 damage is relatively straight forward, even easy, on a variety of chassis

Yep sub 300 Match score is something I personally rate as failure to do my part.

edit: typo.

Edited by Curccu, 12 February 2022 - 07:17 AM.

[JudauAshta]

foamyesque, on 11 February 2022 - 03:13 PM, said:

Triple digits is relatively easy; don't undersell what lights can do like that. Sometimes you mess up and somebody tears your leg off from a million miles with PPCs or gauss, or you round a corner into a pinpoint Fafnir or something, but as long as you have reasonable play, 200-300 damage is relatively straight-forward, even easy, on a variety of chassis.

depends if you're running troll/weird build then no doing 300 will be hard, but if you use meta light builds then very easy to do 300+ dam

[foamyesque]

JudauAshta, on 12 February 2022 - 01:09 AM, said:

depends if you're running troll/weird build then no doing 300 will be hard, but if you use meta light builds then very easy to do 300+ dam

Eh, I dunno what's meta with lights. I like light poking; the lights that're intended to get in and brawl with people I have a great deal of difficulty piloting successfully. Too much exposure time, and I'm not good at the jackrabbit juking you need to avoid getting hit. Works a lot better when I'm with a wolfpack from time to time, but solodropping in QP they've been tricky for me.

On the other hand, lights whose gameplay is to step out, blast someone, and zip back into cover in the span of a half-second? Those I do better with, and are a lot less reliant on coordinated play. I don't claim to be any great shakes at MWO, so I figure if I can make lights go, it can't be that hard.

Heavies and assaults are my preferred play, though. Honestly if there's a class in the game right now that feels a bit uneven I think I'd say it's the mediums; some are really good, but they seem in general to be pretty dialed in as glass cannons. The speed loss relative to lights really impacts the survival and the extra armour doesn't seem to help all that much in compensating for how much more often you get hit.

[Weeny Machine]

foamyesque, on 12 February 2022 - 01:27 AM, said:

Eh, I dunno what's meta with lights. I like light poking; the lights that're intended to get in and brawl with people I have a great deal of difficulty piloting successfully. Too much exposure time, and I'm not good at the jackrabbit juking you need to avoid getting hit. Works a lot better when I'm with a wolfpack from time to time, but solodropping in QP they've been tricky for me.

On the other hand, lights whose gameplay is to step out, blast someone, and zip back into cover in the span of a half-second? Those I do better with, and are a lot less reliant on coordinated play. I don't claim to be any great shakes at MWO, so I figure if I can make lights go, it can't be that hard.

Heavies and assaults are my preferred play, though. Honestly if there's a class in the game right now that feels a bit uneven I think I'd say it's the mediums; some are really good, but they seem in general to be pretty dialed in as glass cannons. The speed loss relative to lights really impacts the survival and the extra armour doesn't seem to help all that much in compensating for how much more often you get hit.

I speak now of QP, bear that in mind, please: you are right, the exposure time is what makes playing lights so problematic (basically in brawling) and many of the 35t mechs are too easy to hit because of their size and/or lack the agility to stay out of an enemy's firing arc (Wolfhounds for example).

So, what is left? Play one of the 20t or rely on sniping (and lose every trade once a sniper gets a bead on your due to lack of firepower and armour) or hit & run which I play most. However, this is also not that easy on some maps when some teams camp and you need to get close. Then you either have the option of waiting till the camps finally break up (zZZzzZZ ZZz ZzzzZ) or run a (too) great risk of getting close to nearly the whole enemy team

Summa summarum: especially the bigger light mechs are in deep water


As for medium mechs...I disagree completely. Sure, there are some chassis or variants which are in trouble but a fast medium can e.g. play the role of moving sniper very well and won't go be crippled from one salve. The damage e.g. a laser vomit Hunchback IIC can dish out is also pretty nasty

Edited by Weeny Machine, 12 February 2022 - 03:56 AM.

[caravann]

Light and medium are meta that they have shotgun potential.

Once upon heavy and assault you are based on DPS and won't as often see stack builds.

The archer is able to play shotgun but it get higher amount of exceptions than common.

From light 80 to medium 90 to heavies drops in alpha strikes to 70 , to assault drops to 50 but for every drop they also get higher amount of shots and ability to survive shots.

Compared to a light 80 with a top tier medium with 80 , you have 2x as much armor in the center.

Inner sphere gets better medium as them usually have better armor ratings. Not as much is to be compared at light mechs.

Someone has to be the one to soften the targets. The medium and light mechs are suited for this task. The flea play as finisher, a role that many light and medium mechs are able to play as well.

In survival rating assault is superior because of factors. Assault run slower and gets to become the finisher. Assault gets to shoot at targets who already been shot by medium and light mechs. In long range assault is able to carry bigger computers and able to shoot further than medium and light counterpart.

Terms of armor medium has around 80 in center, light has around 40 in center and heavy has around 100 in center while assault has around 140. The smallest jump is from medium to heavy with only 20 compared to light to medium and heavy to assault. The assault are able to reach 80kph and the heavies are the real losers in performance since most heavies run at 80 while don't gain much in armor compared to their speed since multiple assault are able to reach 80 kph with a lot better armor ratio. If it wasn't for the classification and tonnage the assault with equal speed is also able to have equal amount of weaponry but better armor and structure.

Exceptions exist with heavy classified assault mechs like timberwolf because all clan mechs perform 5 tons above inner sphere. This is why a 30ton clan is to be compared with a 35ton inner sphere.

[YueFei]

pbiggz, on 11 February 2022 - 05:41 AM, said:

Once I had 6/8 dreadnaught, 2/5 conquerors, thunderfury, and a hatchet of sundered bone, the rogues didn't give me much trouble anymore.

You ever fight Rogues with 5.2K+ HP unbuffed who:

• Know how to deadzone kite, not only recharging energy while you cannot get any time on target to gain Rage, you're forced to use shouts every 5 seconds (depleting your Rage) just to keep him in combat to prevent the restealth.
  
• Either has WoTF to break Intimidating Shout or is smart enough to equip PvP trinket to break it.
  
• Can Cheapshot without breaking Sap, Expose Armor without breaking Blind. This technique can be performed reliably with weapon-swapping.
  
• Can Vanish->Cheapshot through Rend / Deep Wounds (taking advantage of the fact that Vanish does not trigger their GCD).
  
• Know to use Evasion immediately when in prolonged contact (and get you into Battle Stance where you can be Gouged/Sapped later). Especially if you're dual wielding, because then you're only hitting them with one-handed Overpowers. And they can abuse your GCD to force you to skip a GCD and give up the chance to use an ability in order to maximize Overpower usage every 5 seconds, or else you use the extra ability but can now only Overpower again after 6 seconds. Keep in mind Rogue GCD is 1 second, and everyone else's GCD in Vanilla is 1.5 seconds.
  
• And then use Preparation in order to be able to Vanish/Sprint/Evasion/Blind->Sap all over again. Each time eating food / bandaging to heal up while you are stumbling around Blinded/Sapped. You essentially have mow through the Rogue's health bar like two and a half times.

Edited by YueFei, 12 February 2022 - 12:18 PM.

[Ekson Valdez]

Please stay on the topic of MWO. If you want to discuss topics beyond the game, please open a new thread in the offtopic section or use PMs.

[foamyesque]

Weeny Machine, on 12 February 2022 - 03:49 AM, said:

I speak now of QP, bear that in mind, please: you are right, the exposure time is what makes playing lights so problematic (basically in brawling) and many of the 35t mechs are too easy to hit because of their size and/or lack the agility to stay out of an enemy's firing arc (Wolfhounds for example).

So, what is left? Play one of the 20t or rely on sniping (and lose every trade once a sniper gets a bead on your due to lack of firepower and armour) or hit & run which I play most. However, this is also not that easy on some maps when some teams camp and you need to get close. Then you either have the option of waiting till the camps finally break up (zZZzzZZ ZZz ZzzzZ) or run a (too) great risk of getting close to nearly the whole enemy team

My three best lights are all bigger ones, though they also all carry ECM: The Urbie, the Raven, and the Kit Fox. LPPCs on the Urbie and Raven, HLLs on the Kit Fox. Step out, zorch someone who's looking at a team mate, step back. The bigger size isn't as much of an issue if you're not actually trying to facetime with someone.

Quote

As for medium mechs...I disagree completely. Sure, there are some chassis or variants which are in trouble but a fast medium can e.g. play the role of moving sniper very well and won't go be crippled from one salve. The damage e.g. a laser vomit Hunchback IIC can dish out is also pretty nasty

A Hunchie IIC is precisely the kind of mech I was thinking of when I said mediums tend to get shoved into a glass cannon role. You've also got stuff like a Nova, for example, or the various Sphere mediums that get XL'd because you just can't carry relevant firepower otherwise. They tend towards the squashy side. You also have mediums that try to pretend they're lights, like the Viper or Black Lanner. The trouble is, most mediums aren't significantly harder to hit than heavies are -- a bit, but not much -- and they often have far less armour.

[ScrapIron Prime]

The light I run the most is my Laser Crow... Raven 3L with 3LL and ECM... hover near an assault, provide them ECM, shoot what they shoot, counter the ECM of any light that jumps them.

[Weeny Machine]

foamyesque, on 12 February 2022 - 02:12 PM, said:

My three best lights are all bigger ones, though they also all carry ECM: The Urbie, the Raven, and the Kit Fox. LPPCs on the Urbie and Raven, HLLs on the Kit Fox. Step out, zorch someone who's looking at a team mate, step back. The bigger size isn't as much of an issue if you're not actually trying to facetime with someone.

ScrapIron Prime, on 12 February 2022 - 06:39 PM, said:

The light I run the most is my Laser Crow... Raven 3L with 3LL and ECM... hover near an assault, provide them ECM, shoot what they shoot, counter the ECM of any light that jumps them.

So, you all play lights which have ecm and/or mid-/long range weaponry. That's exactly what I meant, that something is really wrong.

foamyesque, on 12 February 2022 - 02:12 PM, said:

A Hunchie IIC is precisely the kind of mech I was thinking of when I said mediums tend to get shoved into a glass cannon role. You've also got stuff like a Nova, for example, or the various Sphere mediums that get XL'd because you just can't carry relevant firepower otherwise. They tend towards the squashy side. You also have mediums that try to pretend they're lights, like the Viper or Black Lanner. The trouble is, most mediums aren't significantly harder to hit than heavies are -- a bit, but not much -- and they often have far less armour.

Well, you cannot have that kind of firepower and have it take many shots. I love my Centurion A (yes, I am weird) and it is really tanky and I can brawl with him

Edited by Weeny Machine, 13 February 2022 - 12:13 AM.

[ScrapIron Prime]

Weeny Machine, on 13 February 2022 - 12:11 AM, said:

So, you all play lights which have ecm and/or mid-/long range weaponry. That's exactly what I meant, that something is really wrong.

ECM is appealing, no doubt. But my 2nd and 3rd choices for lights don’t have ECM… Jenner with 4 LPPC and Firestarter with 6ML and 2AMS.

What I don’t run is “in your shorts” builds with MG and tiny lazors. I personally suck at those.