93 replies to this topic

[DaZur]

For clarity... This is not a LRM rant.

That said, over this recent event I've seen an inordinate amount of LRM'ing and have had ample opportunity to watch players hurl missiles vicariously secondary to my demise.

I just don't get it...

More than half the players I've watched dutifully position themselves out of harms way, patiently wait for the obligatory Dorito and rapid launch LRMs at mechs unseen. Conversely, I've seen a handful of players who actively move and seek advantageous position, obtain their own locks and artfully paint the battlefield with their arsenal... But these players seem to be the exception to the norm.

It's like watching paint dry... Oh, they get their kills, rack up tidy amounts of damage (Assuming folks click R) and contribute to the outcome of most matches. I just can't see the enjoyment of the play mechanics.

I have a couple LRM mechs for no other reason than to complete event LRM requirements... I begrudgingly roll them out when necessary... Even then, these mechs sport secondary weapons that allow me to feed my need to actively engage the enemy face-to-face.

Not venting... No complaining. I'll do me and you do you. I just don't get it...

[ScrapIron Prime]

In lower tiers, horizon bombing with LRMs is a way to rack up decent numbers, which is why people do it. higher tiers less so, because targets make better use of cover.

I'm in the "up close and getting my own locks" lurm camp. Drilling with lasers at 400m and then blasting with LRMs like they're some kind of LBX weapon is more effective because the ranges, lock time, travel time, etc are shorter. Indirect fire is just icing on the cake and is secondary. And yeah, like you pointed out, its more rewarding play when you can SEE the mech you're tearing apart.

[Bud Crue]

While I have always been disdainful of LRMs as boring, I can't in good conscious criticize the "stand in back and lob LRMs at a dorito halfway across the map" play style of the typical LRM boater to be any more boring than the "stand in back under ECM and fire ERLLs at a profile half way across the map" that seems to be the norm for more and more players these days. Both can be effective in the right situation, but neither are what I think of as fun or exciting play styles. To each his own.

[DaZur]

Bud Crue, on 28 January 2022 - 07:31 AM, said:

While I have always been disdainful of LRMs as boring, I can't in good conscious criticize the "stand in back and lob LRMs at a dorito halfway across the map" play style of the typical LRM boater to be any more boring than the "stand in back under ECM and fire ERLLs at a profile half way across the map" that seems to be the norm for more and more players these days. Both can be effective in the right situation, but neither are what I think of as fun or exciting play styles. To each his own.

Agreed.

Obviously with both there is a lure of doling out damage while minimizing taking damage. That said, the paint drying aspect of both pains me.

At least with the ranged laser spam you "sort of" can see/feel the visceral effects of your efforts... Watching your target paper doll flash and flicker while you stare into the side of a rise or a building just can't be fun... Can it?

[John Bronco]

I don't know either. I prefer to actually play the game when I play the game.

[katoult]

DaZur, on 28 January 2022 - 06:15 AM, said:

That said, over this recent event I've seen an inordinate amount of LRM'ing

Actually the missile count was fairly low this year. I only had one or two matches where it impacted my frame rate - which typically only happens when there's more than 200 missiles in the air to render concurrently.

I actually don't think we've had any real LRM event recently - maybe one or two in the last three years where you explicitly needed LRM-xx damage? People just tend to resort to LRMs to complete missile damage events. Even if on dmg return for playtime you can just as well roll a medium SRM bomber if you're halfway good at it.

DaZur, on 28 January 2022 - 06:15 AM, said:

I just can't see the enjoyment of the play mechanics.

Finding your optimal G7 Grim Plexus position and peppering both direct and indirect at exact min range while shifting forward and backward sideways peaking across the hillside is fun, especially when there's say a PPC or ERLL boat backing you up from E6 high blasting exactly those who move forward to threaten your position - and knowing exactly how to shift the pair of you to adapt to the enemy attempting to change their position.
While you do that kinda thing the rest of your team can shift around freely. Which admittedly they don't really use because they're all stuck in their "let's overextend our nascar" mindset.

Of course you don't always get that. It's far easier to achieve in faction play, especially when working a a premade pair as described above. And often in active LRM play you simply have to try to force such situations by pushing rather aggressively yourself. And if you can't push such a situation or need certain elements removed first to achieve them you can still resort to long-range and indirect fire while closing in to proper LRM brawling range.

As for watching paint drying, that's how i feel when i'm in a ERLL (or for that matter and kind of AC2) boat in the back. Especially when playing in lower tier, where you can just hold that single position for half the match and the targets will parade themselves in front of you.

ScrapIron Prime, on 28 January 2022 - 06:25 AM, said:

I'm in the "up close and getting my own locks" lurm camp.

Anywhere above Tier 3 you pretty much have to get your own locks because otherwise you sure as hell ain't gonna get any unless it's an agreed upon strategy (in group or team).

[Cerebus23]

my one dire is lrm centric, 2 10s 2 15s and a 5 in the chest, with 2 large heavy lasers and 2 heave guns long and short range pressure dps.


i can sit back and melt targets with glee, if my teams pushing a flank nuker can be a boon for your score and your team, by helping them burn down targets faster.


but i will blow through my ammo rapidly 3 4 mechs melted my ammo for lrm will be gone. and odds are the opposing team will get annoyed with my lrm and push or try to team murder me.


that is the fun.

[DaZur]

katoult, on 28 January 2022 - 07:49 AM, said:

Fair points...

I'm exclusively a solo player in the QP environment so as you eluded to, my perception is obviously the product of my environment.

[pattonesque]

DaZur, on 28 January 2022 - 06:15 AM, said:

For clarity... This is not a LRM rant.

That said, over this recent event I've seen an inordinate amount of LRM'ing and have had ample opportunity to watch players hurl missiles vicariously secondary to my demise.

I just don't get it...

More than half the players I've watched dutifully position themselves out of harms way, patiently wait for the obligatory Dorito and rapid launch LRMs at mechs unseen. Conversely, I've seen a handful of players who actively move and seek advantageous position, obtain their own locks and artfully paint the battlefield with their arsenal... But these players seem to be the exception to the norm.

It's like watching paint dry... Oh, they get their kills, rack up tidy amounts of damage (Assuming folks click R) and contribute to the outcome of most matches. I just can't see the enjoyment of the play mechanics.

I have a couple LRM mechs for no other reason than to complete event LRM requirements... I begrudgingly roll them out when necessary... Even then, these mechs sport secondary weapons that allow me to feed my need to actively engage the enemy face-to-face.

Not venting... No complaining. I'll do me and you do you. I just don't get it...

A lot of MWO pubbies just don't like being fired upon. It stresses them out. You see them run away when they see enemies on the minimap, refuse to fire back, etc.

[ScrapIron Prime]

katoult, on 28 January 2022 - 07:49 AM, said:

I actually don't think we've had any real LRM event recently - maybe one or two in the last three years where you explicitly needed LRM-xx damage? People just tend to resort to LRMs to complete missile damage events. Even if on dmg return for playtime you can just as well roll a medium SRM bomber if you're halfway good at it.

I got mine in mostly with MRM's. A 40% velocity quirk makes a Warhammer 7S just glorious with them.

[Remover of Obstacles]

There is some LRM increased usage for the event to get 8,000 missile damage. Although that is usually easier to obtain with a fast moving wolfpack of SRM mechs or quirked MRM carrier of your choice. With cSSRMs and ATMs getting damage nerfs, they have fallen to new lows with usage reaching near flamer levels. That makes cLRMs the clan lock-on winner by default.

The new BAS-E now allows a possible of seven hardpoints with hero mech paypods. Although it can only fit 5 LRM 20s, many pilots are trying out the newest addition to their mech hangar collection.

[katoult]

ScrapIron Prime, on 28 January 2022 - 10:00 AM, said:

A 40% velocity quirk makes a Warhammer 7S just glorious with them.

The same quirk gives the WHM-7S LRM/Art in DF at the speed of regular MRMs.

[ScrapIron Prime]

katoult, on 28 January 2022 - 12:59 PM, said:

The same quirk gives the WHM-7S LRM/Art in DF at the speed of regular MRMs.

Not quite. LRM natural speed is 210 m/s, while MRM is 500 m/s. The 7S boosts lurms to 294 m/s, which is quite excellent. But MRM's boosted to 700 m/s is approaching AC/20 velocity!

[katoult]

ScrapIron Prime, on 28 January 2022 - 01:08 PM, said:

Not quite. LRM natural speed is 210 m/s, while MRM is 500 m/s. The 7S boosts lurms to 294 m/s, which is quite excellent.

Direct Velocity for LRM is 294 m/s - plus 40% quirk plus 15% skill makes 411.6 m/s though. Which turns it from slow AMS bait into the same territory as non-skilled rocket launchers (420m/s base), IS SRM (400m/s base) and sufficiently close to MRM (500m/s base).

(and yes, the change in effect vs AMS is rather significant when direct-firing)

[Fragga ONE]

DaZur, on 28 January 2022 - 06:15 AM, said:

For clarity... This is not a LRM rant.

It is totally a LRM rant and goes in the bin with all the other rants. You know the lights waawaa threads the sniper threads and oh missiles threads. IT is totally a waawaa thread like the majority of posts on these forums. Weapons are reasonably balanced right now so if lrm bothers you that much I guess you dont know how to resist them, again like sooo many posts offer advice for.
TL DR make a proper ***** post that isnt made 1000 times before and isnt answered 1000 times. GL HF

[Novakaine]

Well some of us mech-grandaddies snapshot reflexes have gone the way of the dinosaurs.
Not to mention a few players I know have a few physical disabilities.
But the real question should be why the hell a TAG laser is still only 700 meters?
Everything else in the game has been touched has been touched but TAG.

Edited by Novakaine, 28 January 2022 - 02:49 PM.

[Captain Caveman DE]

Novakaine, on 28 January 2022 - 02:48 PM, said:

Well some of us mech-grandaddies snapshot reflexes have gone the way of the dinosaurs.
Not to mention a few players I know have a few physical disabilities.
But the real question should be why the hell a TAG laser is still only 700 meters?
Everything else in the game has been touched has been touched but TAG.

https://www.sarna.ne...e_note-TMp342-5

TAG in Battletech has a range of 15hexes, which is 450meters.
so.. "Only" 700 ..
oh, and it's 750 ingame, actually.
..
but yeah, for the usual lurm-crowd, 750mtr is damn close, I know..

Edited by Captain Caveman DE, 28 January 2022 - 04:08 PM.

[Weeny Machine]

Fragga ONE, on 28 January 2022 - 02:13 PM, said:

It is totally a LRM rant and goes in the bin with all the other rants. You know the lights waawaa threads the sniper threads and oh missiles threads. IT is totally a waawaa thread like the majority of posts on these forums. Weapons are reasonably balanced right now so if lrm bothers you that much I guess you dont know how to resist them, again like sooo many posts offer advice for.
TL DR make a proper ***** post that isnt made 1000 times before and isnt answered 1000 times. GL HF

Jup, great balance. That's why you see nearly only weight classes which can carry at least mid-range weaponry and the game is a glorified whack-a-mole. I had a couple of matches which were like 2 groups sit on a patch of high ground and shoot at each other. The ones with more close range weaponry lost because they got impatient after a couple of minutes and when they crossed the open ground they were peppered by lasers and lrms. Very interactive and entertaining gameplay

Basically the same playstyle you had in FP is now in QP /yawn Guess it is obvious what kind of people sit in the cauldron

Edited by Weeny Machine, 28 January 2022 - 04:31 PM.

[LordNothing]

i dont lerm because lerms are boring. i use atms though, which an be awesome or *** depending on the range you use them at. just dont use them at the *** ranges. on the is side i usually prefer mrms over lrms.

Edited by LordNothing, 28 January 2022 - 04:56 PM.

[Sawk]

HMM IT was me that killed you, with LRMs, but do not make a LRM boat, i made hybred timber wolf, with lasers, take you back 8 YEARS, the timberwolf prime, 2 lrm 20s, and 4 med lasers, it worked, only took 30 days, it and many clan mechs got nerfed.
SO make timberwolf prime just replace the 20s with LRM 15s, and add some armor and heat sinks, and learn to avoid light mechs, running a mech like my SNOWFLAKE can be a challenge.

SAWK