75 replies to this topic

[pattonesque]

Horseman, on 30 January 2022 - 02:46 PM, said:

It doesn't, if you understand the implications.
A sufficiently advanced tryhard expects both sides to go all out and fight to the limit of their ability within the rules - the better man, woman or clanner wins. But they also understand that there's no honor, no accomplishment, in stomping out an inferior opponent - rather, being matched against one who doesn't stand a chance is undesirable and demeaning to both parties. That is a tryhard's sense of fair play.
I think there is very little dispute that close matchups tend to be both among the most enjoyable to fight in and most entertaining to watch.
A tryhard wants every match to be like that, every match to push them to their limits.
And that requires solid matchmaking.
If you still don't understand it, then you never understood tryhards or how they think.

this is often what drives me nuts about the MWO playerbase -- players on my team who give up before the match starts for a number of reasons and don't make a legit effort to win

[Brauer]

S 0 L E N Y A, on 30 January 2022 - 02:55 PM, said:

In practice nothing would really change, but it would at least dispel a lot of the confusion behind the PSR mechanics.
So, why not?

It would make a MASSIVE difference. The farming in seasons 46 and 47 shortly after the tier reset was absolutely ridiculous. The level of play in T5 and T1 is massively different.

[S 0 L E N Y A]

Brauer, on 31 January 2022 - 05:56 AM, said:

T5 and T1 is massively different.

Your sample is flawed to say the least.

At the end of the day population size too small to matter.

[Brauer]

S 0 L E N Y A, on 31 January 2022 - 02:44 PM, said:

Your sample is flawed to say the least.

At the end of the day population size too small to matter.

My methods may not be up to the gold standard of research, but they don't really need to be. There are massive differences in skill and they can be perceived both by looking at publicly available player performance statistics, and subjectively during gameplay.

[Heavy Money]

S 0 L E N Y A, on 30 January 2022 - 02:55 PM, said:

In practice nothing would really change, but it would at least dispel a lot of the confusion behind the PSR mechanics.
So, why not?

The matchmaker currently cannot do a great job because of the limited population. But it does do some to keep t5 away from t1. Removing that is not likely to improve matching speed by much, but is likely to jumble things up a lot. There's already tons of mixed tier matching. Having more of it doesn't help anybody. So why would we?

[Tarl Cabot]

S 0 L E N Y A, on 30 January 2022 - 02:55 PM, said:

In practice nothing would really change, but it would at least dispel a lot of the confusion behind the PSR mechanics.
So, why not?

Hmm, you do understand that the original/previous PSR was originally setup that way before the resets? And there were tons of complaints from both sides. We had players who were able to bulldoze their way into Tier 1 and 2 simply by playing a TON of games (25K), while averaging 171 MS and a 0.83 W/L ratio. Tier 1 and 2 then was a snapshot of the players who are currently spread across the tiers, from Tier 1 to Tier 5. Lots of players, including myself, who were previously in Tier 1 are now spread out throughout the tiers. You will have a hard time finding a player with an average Match score of 240 or less in Tier 2, much less in Tier 1, after the reset. If there is said player will likely have a very good W/L ratio, and likely have dropped as a group most of the time.

And the original reset, didnt happen until the two queues had been combined, the PGI had the infinite wisdom to DUMP everyone into Tier 3, EVEN starting Cadets in Tier 3..... really? Then they didnt perform the 2nd partial reset, moving Cadets and those players who had not played in the last few months to Tier 5. Ya think after the Steam release (they had Cadets starting in Tier 4 then switched it to Tier 5).

I.. enough said... or may be not enough but not looking at getting myself banned.. yet... Of the Battletech games, this is the only one I actually enough when I do play.

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 31 January 2022 - 08:46 PM.

[Vxheous]

Tarl Cabot, on 31 January 2022 - 08:38 PM, said:

Hmm, you do understand that the original/previous PSR was originally setup that way before the resets? And there were tons of complaints from both sides. We had players who were able to bulldoze their way into Tier 1 and 2 simply by playing a TON of games (25K), while averaging 171 MS and a 0.83 W/L ratio. Tier 1 and 2 then was a snapshot of the players who are currently spread across the tiers, from Tier 1 to Tier 5. Lots of players, including myself, who were previously in Tier 1 are now spread out throughout the tiers. You will have a hard time finding a player with an average Match score of 240 or less in Tier 2, much less in Tier 1, after the reset. If there is said player will likely have a very good W/L ratio, and likely have dropped as a group most of the time.

And the original reset, didnt happen until the two queues had been combined, the PGI had the infinite wisdom to DUMP everyone into Tier 3, EVEN starting Cadets in Tier 3..... really? Then they didnt perform the 2nd partial reset, moving Cadets and those players who had not played in the last few months to Tier 5. Ya think after the Steam release (they had Cadets starting in Tier 4 then switched it to Tier 5).

I.. enough said... or may be not enough but not looking at getting myself banned.. yet... Of the Battletech games, this is the only one I actually enough when I do play.

LOL, when PGI reset everyone back to Tier 3, I could almost just faceroll on my keyboard and still up arrow, the competition was that bad. Took like 60 games to go mid tier 3 to tier 1.

Edited by Vxheous, 31 January 2022 - 09:16 PM.

[Horseman]

S 0 L E N Y A, on 30 January 2022 - 02:55 PM, said:

In practice nothing would really change, but it would at least dispel a lot of the confusion behind the PSR mechanics.
So, why not?

Like, dude, did you even play when the PSR reset hit? The first bunch of matches before people started drifting off to different tiers was just fecking terrible. The builds, the gameplay decisions... you could put a ******* dog in the cockpit and it would do better.

[Brauer]

Horseman, on 01 February 2022 - 11:14 AM, said:

Like, dude, did you even play when the PSR reset hit? The first bunch of matches before people started drifting off to different tiers was just fecking terrible. The builds, the gameplay decisions... you could put a ******* dog in the cockpit and it would do better.

One wonders if they play at all....

https://leaderboard....u=S+0+L+E+N+Y+A

Edited by Brauer, 02 February 2022 - 08:48 AM.

[ccrider]

I don't play any QP but all of these ideas are great. No PSR, 12 mans in QP, remove ghost heat, this all sounds amazing. I often think to myself, "what if I set myself on fire and attempted to douse it with gasoline while doing this thing I enjoy? Would it make it better?" This sounds like the perfect way to satisfy that question. Do it. Do all of it.

[Curccu]

Brauer, on 01 February 2022 - 09:06 PM, said:

One wonders if they play at all....

https://leaderboard....u=S+O+L+E+N+Y+A

Wrong name
https://leaderboard....u=S+0+L+E+N+Y+A
0 not O

ccrider, on 01 February 2022 - 10:01 PM, said:

I don't play any QP but all of these ideas are great. No PSR, 12 mans in QP, remove ghost heat, this all sounds amazing. I often think to myself, "what if I set myself on fire and attempted to douse it with gasoline while doing this thing I enjoy? Would it make it better?" This sounds like the perfect way to satisfy that question. Do it. Do all of it.

1 Week without any rules? no 10 HS must, no hardpoints on mechs just slots, mix tech, no ghostheat, etc.?

[Brauer]

Curccu, on 02 February 2022 - 03:05 AM, said:

Wrong name
https://leaderboard....u=S+0+L+E+N+Y+A
0 not O


1 Week without any rules? no 10 HS must, no hardpoints on mechs just slots, mix tech, no ghostheat, etc.?

Corrected, thank you. Different account, same story

[Davegt27]

Vxheous, on 31 January 2022 - 09:15 PM, said:

LOL, when PGI reset everyone back to Tier 3, I could almost just faceroll on my keyboard and still up arrow, the competition was that bad. Took like 60 games to go mid tier 3 to tier 1.

an amazing statement

and it highlights the very very large skill gap between top players and avg players

when I started in 2014 I dropped with everyone with no complaints
I liked groups and I liked pop tarts (you jump up in the air and me and my friends shoot you what a great idea I thought)

I am trying not to get into speculation but it appears

and I could be wrong

that PGI had/has a game maker and not a match maker
the primary goal of this game maker was/is to kick off matches as fast as possible
sure they tweaked there game maker but it was never a good match maker --ever!

when I think back to when I was a kid and we played two hand touch football
we did a better job at match making then this game ever did

one reason is we focused on fair matches
if two very good players got on the same side then there where objections

anyways I expect to get shouted down
but I am not complaining about the match maker just pointing out
a few things
like you can't show up to a gun fight with a knife (so to speak)

Vxheous is a gun in case anyone is wondering

[justcallme A S H]

Davegt27, on 02 February 2022 - 03:48 PM, said:

that PGI had/has a game maker and not a match maker
the primary goal of this game maker was/is to kick off matches as fast as possible
sure they tweaked there game maker but it was never a good match maker --ever!

anyways I expect to get shouted down

Still going with the 'shouted down' nonsense I see?

Anyway it is not a game maker at all. The Match Maker and its definitions can be read at any time you like. Granted it does not work, exactly, how Paul has written in the various threads it is still pretty damn close and you can read plenty of posts about it here on this forum.

Please educate yourself before making silly statements and you would then not find yourself being shouted down proven wrong with evidence.

SoloQ MM Update
Combind Q Discoveries / Final Discoveries
PSR Feedback
PSR Patch Notes

[justcallme A S H]

Curccu, on 29 January 2022 - 01:27 AM, said:

What the duck Dave? Even for you this is total brain fart comment...
Are you seriously saying having better matchmaking is worse? Seems to me that it's still the potatoes that QQ here in here forums that some T1 ends up playing against t4-5...."gaming the system" as Samial says.

Unfortunately that is exactly what he is saying. And also that 'dig' at high skilled players wanting the better match making as if it was something exclusive just to "them" - when the entire playerbase had issue with it and now has the benefits of a better system (of course, not perfrect). Still makes me laugh that some people are upset about losing thier "T1" badge and they are now stuck in T4/T3 which proves the point that the MM and PSR is working better than it was.

I mean imagine having better match making and actually trying to complain about it

S 0 L E N Y A, on 31 January 2022 - 02:44 PM, said:

Your sample is flawed to say the least.

At the end of the day population size too small to matter.

You can just watch Tier 5 streamers any day you choose and for anyone with half a brain you can easily see the glaring differences.

The population is actually large enough that the split from T1-T3 and T3-T5 matches does matter, significantly so.

[Davegt27]

posting memes is more fun but they just get removed

from this post

https://mwomercs.com...ue-update-2020/

from Paul the lead Dev from MWO

Quote

[color=orange]Initial Findings[/color]

For perspective, here were the numbers we were looking at prior to any changes (for communication purposes, this is Scenario A ):
- 12v12 Group Queue
- 12 player max group size.
- Average time for a match [color=yellow]9.7 minutes[/color].

On Friday, we set up a test restriction on Group Queue of 8-player max group sizes and matches were 8v8. During that evening, there was a community event and people checking in on what the change would play out like. Here's what we saw throughout Friday evening ( Scenario B ):
- Average time for a match in group queue: [color=yellow]3.2 minutes[/color].

That was a significant drop in wait times but we have to understand that, that was a best case scenario due to the event and people trying the new system out.

As expected, after the event and check-ins, the number started to climb. We checked the numbers on Monday at noon Pacific Time, (off peak North America) and found the following ( Scenario C ):
- Average time for a match [color=yellow]6.5 minutes[/color].

While 3 minutes in a queue feels like forever, this isn't a negligible amount of time saved. However, it is no where near ideal either.

Paul even high lights avg time for a match in yellow




now using the first link scroll down to post #3 and see how the lead designer gets shouted down

Quote

I feel like 9.7mins isn't not exactly representative and it was higher.

The reason it wasn't higher is that people just didn't bother to queue up at all. If there is no one in the queue, there is no wait time.

Many people queued for 20mins+ (myself included, I waited 30mins a few weeks ago) and then you simply give up and never bother to try again.

Hopefully 8 makes it a bit better. I'll read the rest of the post later. That just jumped out at me.

the lead designer had just said these are the finding
but we oh no Paul is wrong

its flipping hilarious

of course you will say different and demand more proof

Edited by Davegt27, 02 February 2022 - 11:54 PM.

[Weeny Machine]

I like that there is a MM - regardless if it is good or bad. Why? I can fool around with builds, play non-meta mechs, level new mechs and don't need to worry that I get to a high tier and get completely aßß kicked.

[justcallme A S H]

Davegt27, on 02 February 2022 - 11:53 PM, said:

Spoiler

posting memes is more fun but they just get removed

from this post

https://mwomercs.com...ue-update-2020/

from Paul the lead Dev from MWO



Paul even high lights avg time for a match in yellow




now using the first link scroll down to post #3 and see how the lead designer gets shouted down






the lead designer had just said these are the finding
but we oh no Paul is wrong

its flipping hilarious

of course you will say different and demand more proof

So because I explained some real life experience with some factual background, that many Oceanic users had experienced many times and can attest too, I was somehow "shouting down the Dev"?

Wow dude... That is just so far off-base it's almost unbelievable.

The post I made was not a hard concept to grasp at all, very basic. Alas that hatred is clouding your mind once again.

Edited by justcallme A S H, 03 February 2022 - 02:10 AM.

[Curccu]

Davegt27, on 02 February 2022 - 11:53 PM, said:

posting memes is more fun but they just get removed

from this post

https://mwomercs.com...ue-update-2020/

from Paul the lead Dev from MWO

Paul even high lights avg time for a match in yellow

now using the first link scroll down to post #3 and see how the lead designer gets shouted down

the lead designer had just said these are the finding
but we oh no Paul is wrong

its flipping hilarious

of course you will say different and demand more proof

Could you explain what does this favorite meme thing of your "shouting down" in your language means? That someone is quoting yours or someone elses post and doesn't agree? Am I shouting you down now? if not....

Cannot see any exclamation marks from Ash in that #3 post... or shouting emojis.

Am I shouting you down now?

Just curious.

[ccrider]

Curccu, on 03 February 2022 - 02:56 AM, said:

Could you explain what does this favorite meme thing of your "shouting down" in your language means? That someone is quoting yours or someone elses post and doesn't agree? Am I shouting you down now? if not....

Cannot see any exclamation marks from Ash in that #3 post... or shouting emojis.

Am I shouting you down now?

Just curious.

If you disagree with me, you're shouting me down. No dissent; either everyone agrees with my viewpoints or you are a bully. I don't have a horse in this race but that's essentially the crux of that sentence.