51 replies to this topic

[An6ryMan69]

Corvus Antaka, on 11 March 2022 - 12:12 PM, said:

the slow mechs carry heavy ppc better, so they suffer most when using this and stuck at under min range.

light ppcs are simply more effective, really the only limit is being short on hardpoints, 2 light ppc easily outclass a normal ppc. cycle times, no min range, 1 ton less. if anything the light ppc should have the min range since lights handle range changes easier

overall i mostly notice only erppc and light ppc being used.

light ppc is really OP right now imho, a jenner carries 4 giving it an AC20 striking power at 0-550m range. no ammo limits and incredible cycle times.

ppcs need to be looked at in my opinion, we should see each ppc as a viable option. min range adds nothing of value since they all have different rules. either get rid of min range, or put all the ppc's on a min range ramp, or give them all a 90m min range.

given how light mechs do so well under 90m, i personally think min range gimps the PPC as a defensive weapon against lights on bigger mechs, and its something that is really needed to deal with lights.

i'd remove all the min ranges on PPC's, and increase the cycle time and heat on light PPC's so stacking them isnt so ridiculously easy.

See, I tend to think of LPPC's as a bit of a specialty weapon, usually eclipsed by ERMLas or regular MLas. LPPC's weigh three times as much as the ERMLas and take up twice the space while enjoying only marginally more damage and range. Personally I only take LPPC's if I am using a mech with a skimpy amount of hard points, where I cannot properly use the weight and size of ERMLas loadouts as they should be used. Take the JVN 11A - I load mine with seven lasers and there's no way I would trade them for three LPPC's. Same with my nine laser hunchbacks. And I don't hate LPPC's, I have a nine LPPC Warhammer like everybody else does, but honestly its kind of more for show. Even it does better with a mix of ERLLas and MLas if I'm being honest.

[caravann]

Any hit is secured with light ppc. Can't be compared with erML in this regard.

It's OP when someone on internet tells it. But people tend to not go for only ppc builds.

The ppc demand fully upgraded mechs. lasers are mostly plug and play.

The issue is quirks unbalanced some mechs. It's not a status quo on all mechs.

That's why the focus should be based on the mech and not the guns because each gun is unique for every mech.

This is why light mechs uses one heavy ppc and heavy mechs uses light ppc.

The goal ways always to make light ppc OP and that's why the minimum range was removed for the guns whose only goal was to be superior to all other.

The limited range maybe won't make any effect. But since the suggestion is that this is a change is for every ppc the snub nose is going to be contradictive by having a limited short and long range.

Tomorrow the complain is going to be that LRM are to be nerfed. By repeating the cycle of increasing and reducing AMS
Then the AMS are nerfed because they became too strong against any kind of missile.
Once that is done, the Lams is going to be considered bad since it has no purpose any longer.
Then the LRM5 is getting green go to use 4 of them to counter the use of ams.
Once the lrm spam continue it is changed to make AMS stronger and give ATM better health,
Then ATM is going be complained to be OP because they cost almost the same of streak.
Once that stated the streaks are nerfed to make ATM better, for reasons.
Then beagle probe is increased in range to make streak better.
Once that's done UAV is considered bad and must be fixed.
The UAV is increased but now sensor detection is increased and that is fixed by making the skill tree even stronger.
Then the ECM is considered too strong because nobody can see any of their targets and that's when the game reached the final balance.

[PocketYoda]

Curccu, on 10 March 2022 - 10:22 PM, said:

Right IMO.
Heavy peeps could lose hard min range also like normal peeps.


That accuracy thing is pilot thing, not weapon... there is no scatter or anything in peeps.

True but PPCs are hit or miss.. Lasers are hit even with bad accuracy or moving.. a graze is still better than a miss.

[DaZur]

Nomad Tech, on 11 March 2022 - 07:48 PM, said:

True but PPCs are hit or miss.. Lasers are hit even with bad accuracy or moving.. a graze is still better than a miss.

This is a per-pilot thing I think... I do much better with front loaded PPD over hit-scan. My twitch reflexes went the way of my hairline and I'm fairly good at leading... tracking however is awful.

I do however think all PPC should have min-range falloff scaled proportionally to each iteration... I love my HPPC builds but as soon as I'm bum-rushed by literally any class I'm toast.

I'd be happy with delivering a tickle versus a pretty light-show any day.

[PocketYoda]

DaZur, on 14 March 2022 - 12:12 PM, said:

This is a per-pilot thing I think... I do much better with front loaded PPD over hit-scan. My twitch reflexes went the way of my hairline and I'm fairly good at leading... tracking however is awful.

I do however think all PPC should have min-range falloff scaled proportionally to each iteration... I love my HPPC builds but as soon as I'm bum-rushed by literally any class I'm toast.

I'd be happy with delivering a tickle versus a pretty light-show any day.

Up close PPCs are ok. But on great distances even with quirks its like a slow snowball.. you literally can walk out of its arc.

[Weeny Machine]

Nomad Tech, on 14 March 2022 - 08:21 PM, said:

Up close PPCs are ok. But on great distances even with quirks its like a slow snowball.. you literally can walk out of its arc.

The problem with PPCs is that on long distances the enemy can easily sidestep them at least partly. Lateral movement of the target on these distances makes PPC unreliable at best.

That's why you see ERLL builds shooting over most of the map and not PPC builds.

[w0qj]

Quick question: how do you know if your enemy is using PPC to shoot you, and not Snub-Nose-PPC, and not LIght-PPC ? (Assuming that you cannot get a Target paperdoll up due to out of sensor range, etc.)

Just curious!

Edited by w0qj, 15 March 2022 - 11:27 AM.

[DaZur]

w0qj, on 15 March 2022 - 11:26 AM, said:

Quick question: how do you know if your enemy is using PPC to shoot you, and not Snub-Nose-PPC, and not LIght-PPC ? (Assuming that you cannot get a Target paperdoll up due to out of sensor range, etc.)

Just curious!

If I'm in your face... Snub nose. If I'm loitering around skirmishes... PPC, LPPC. If I'm trying like hell to stay around 400 meters... HPPC. If I'm across the map... ERPPC.

Inside the cockpit all PPCs sound puny compared to the HPPC.

[ScrapIron Prime]

Weeny Machine, on 14 March 2022 - 10:30 PM, said:

The problem with PPCs is that on long distances the enemy can easily sidestep them at least partly. Lateral movement of the target on these distances makes PPC unreliable at best.

That's why you see ERLL builds shooting over most of the map and not PPC builds.

Yeah, if you're going to snipe with IS PPC builds, you need to do it with a mech that has killer velocity quirks. Lots of mechs hit 20 or even 30 percent boosts, but only two hit a massive 40% velocity boost...

Warhammer 7S = 40% velocity all weapons
Awesome 9M = 20% velocity (+20% more for ERPPC)

[w0qj]

Another mech that is close (but no cigar):

Warhawk WHK-Prime = +35% ERPPC velocity with full SO8 bonus, and -9% Heat Gen (full SO8)
Additional +15% Weapons Velocity buff from full Skill Tree Nodes is also quite noticable

Finally a new incentive to buy that Clan Wave I for that WHK-Prime(I) with +30% CBills bonus
https://mwomercs.com/clans

Edited by w0qj, 16 March 2022 - 12:06 AM.

[Curccu]

w0qj, on 15 March 2022 - 11:35 PM, said:

Warhawk WHK-Prime = +35% ERPPC velocity with full SO8 bonus, and -9% Heat Gen (full SO8)

-4% ERPPC Heat Gen also.

Slap TC and few nodes from skilltree and they got pretty nice velocity.

[CreativeAnarchy]

I want to really like this but it is just meh for what it is. My preference is still ballistics, I think they are the most fun to play and can still be effective in a match. PPC is similar with aiming so I really want to like them for other non-ballistic mechs.

After messing with Warhammer 6R(S) and 7S PPC builds, laser vomit is easier to play and get better load out and results. Point and follow a target, people just spooge their beams all over the place regardless of distance. Try doing that with a PPC and they just step out of the way because it has to travel, they get plenty of warning, where the beam is instant on. PPC is not instant on target and if target is moving you need to be able lead the target to hit it unlike laser where you just need to keep a steady hand..

Can get a better damage profile from the same hard points using lasers that you can get with a PPC/mixed PPC load. Most loads don't have all large laser of some kind, usually a mixture as well as allowing other options to be added in the mix like a missile. To get an equivalent PPC/mixed PPC damage load, the PPC load will be heavier and hotter and more slots taken and it won't be as functional if you have any with a min range regardless of the exponential drop off.

For IS mechs, I think if there was a quirk that reduced the min range on the PPC by half at least or quirk to negate it entirely, not necessarily the heavy, it would help with normal PPC otherwise that one still just isn't worth loading even with the drop off. I think they need a bit more heat reduction or quirk the current mechs that have PPC heat reduction with a little bit more.

They just run too hot for what what they are and don't really deliver compared to other systems, for how many slots they take and how heavy they are.