563 replies to this topic

[sosegado]

Ok..if anyone at PGI is even monitoring this thread then maybe there's a solution....

Sweeten the pot a little....Have the developer that came up with this idea drop this weekend!

Maybe there's a few of them that want to join us in this experiment they came up with?

How about a bounty of 50 mc on their heads?

It's been done before..and it might just make the community that's already mad come back to:
HUNT THE DEVELOPER!

Edited by Stab Wound, 18 March 2022 - 01:25 AM.

[Verustus]

Krizalius, on 17 March 2022 - 09:17 PM, said:

Not true. I don't see any problem with 4-pilot permades.
But, yes, there is a problem with the tonnage balance for the whole team.

One of the big cause of tonnage imbalance is a group with a large number of people, which is more noticeable in 8v8, though.

Edited by Pictor, 17 March 2022 - 09:26 PM.

[Krizalius]

Pictor, on 17 March 2022 - 09:24 PM, said:

One of the big cause of tonnage imbalance is a group with a large number of people, which is more noticeable in 8v8, though.

I don't see the logic in your words.
There is a total tonnage for the whole group when searching in MM. It's simple here. Set in each lances according to the rule 1 Assault 1 Heavy 1 Medium 1 Light.
There is a dynamic tonnage for a premade of 4 pilots. The more pilots, the less tonnage each pilot can take. Example 3 Heavy 1 light. The distribution should always be such as not to allow overtonnage to be taken.
In other words, to get people together in teams. It's a team game.

Edited by Krizalius, 17 March 2022 - 09:31 PM.

[King Yellowman]

8v8 not good

[Verustus]

Krizalius, on 17 March 2022 - 09:31 PM, said:

I don't see the logic in your words.

I am talking about whether the tonnage always matches the group of opponents to be matched. It would be more difficult if a group with fixed mechs mixed in with solo only and no tonnage balance.
And I don't understand why you insist on telling to me only that it is not a problem when there are so many people here who say they see a 4-person group as a problem.

Edited by Pictor, 17 March 2022 - 09:56 PM.

[Chaos Kita]

Haven't had too bad of misbalance, but I would be a tier 9 if that existed. . . So maybe the group issue isn't hitting tier 5 games as hard.

My biggest gripe with this 8v8 is now I've had two matches tonight where the ENTIRE match was determined by the objective. 90% of both teams didn't fire a single shot and it showed at the end.

8v8 is lame and boring especially on the objective game modes. Too short of games to sit and wait for next match, just to walk, capture and no shooting. First time I've ever even heard of a game being won with only ONE mech going down in the whole match. LAME.

Edited by Wasabi sabi, 17 March 2022 - 10:08 PM.

[MechwarriorAlex]

1st game I got stomped. Got lrmed to death. This can happen in a 12v12 but it felt like it happened faster since we had less armor to share around.

2nd game we lost because two of our lights got picked off. In a 12v12 this could have been fine but in an 8v8 its a death sentance. This would require light pilots to not banzai charge the enemy team and as we all know only based kitfox and urbie pilots dont do that.

3rd game I got legged from long range and picked off. Then out team lost because of fire power diff after that.

It feels like long range is going to dominate. Getting an early kill ruins 8v8s.

[An6ryMan69]

Okay, after a day off work and probably eight hours of straight QP in this 8v8 experiment I can say I absolutely hate it and I think its bad for the game.

The Good

-Wait time for matches is reduced.

The Bad

-With a third less mechs on the field, specialized mechs are squeezed out; forget about dedicated scout mechs, dedicated support mechs, or just "fun" builds, it's all about "down to business" mech drops with the most effective mechs you can find.

-Deathball is suddenly THE way to play and team members actually give each other crap if anyone dares to spread out, or try to scout, or set up as an LRM support mech.

-Disconnects or AFK's are even more of a kick in the junk for your team now.

-Gameplay is suddenly much tougher; this is a very bad thing for a game already known to have a steep learning curve. The last thing this game needs is to make life harder for new or casual players, but make no mistake, 8v8 does exactly that.

-Match play is simply less forgiving, and therefore less fun. If you mess up in 12v12 somebody probably has your back, or you can at least duck behind someone, or disappear in the crowd so to speak; in 8v8 a mess up is more often fatal. One player today commented on how "8v8 is somehow way more stressful than 12v12", I thought that was succinctly put. And quite unfortunate.

-The many hours I spent today playing 8v8 were a chore, period. I may take my first ever weekend off of this game. No, I haven't played for nine years or something like other guys, but for the last 15 months or so I put in probably 30 hours per week, and I've never missed a weekend on purpose. Now, well, even earning loot bags seems pointless if the game is just kind of awful; I mean, why bother?

Recommendations

-Go back to 12v12 for good, or

-Run separate "competitive" and "casual" quick play matches. If people just want to jump solo with some quirky build they love, and play a fun game that's forgiving, and has a chill atmosphere, there should be a place for that. As well, if people want to team up, load into their most effective mechs, bark orders to each other, and go hard for the win, that's okay too. But both kinds of mindsets in one match is maybe a bit of a problem, and that's that I'm seeing in 8v8 quite a bit.

Anyways, that's my two cents.

[ocular tb]

I always wanted to try 8v8. Played a few tonight. I think it has potential. Do something about the groups and MM and I think it could be good.

[ghost1e]

Revis Volek, on 17 March 2022 - 02:45 PM, said:

Meh, not good enough for that huge epeen...
Overall 1867 94% 5170 1.36 37% 1.80 300 283.4 -8% 7% 10% 39% 39

not bad, but settle down there sport. put that epeen down before someone gets hurt.

when exactly did we start muh-jarlsing people? this is honestly not a way to have a discussion. p.s.: if i may though… your stats are literally not better

[deimosAnomaly]

Personally I like 8v8, it would be nice to have this as an option to choose. It's less likely to be shred to pieces by snipers which makes brawls last longer and your mechs feels sturdier - as they should being hundred tonne warmachines. I haven't encountered 4 mans so far and I except that can ruin the day for solo droppers, but that should be easy to address.

[Krizalius]

Pictor, on 17 March 2022 - 09:43 PM, said:

I am talking about whether the tonnage always matches the group of opponents to be matched. It would be more difficult if a group with fixed mechs mixed in with solo only and no tonnage balance.
And I don't understand why you insist on telling to me only that it is not a problem when there are so many people here who say they see a 4-person group as a problem.

Fixed?
It looks weak.
Each tonnage has its own thresholds. Here from them and take the formula.
The problem in 4 is seen by those who did not play when there were only 4, there were 6 (pre) + 2 (solo) against 8, there were 8 against 8. Even there were 4 without anyone against 8. This did not stop us.
Maybe the problem is not in quantity, but in quality? Most likely the second.
Of course, there are players who come to chill with beer. Give them a 12v12 sandbox. And let them make Easter cakes there, this is the second quick game mode, with minimal prizes. 8v8 games should have higher rewards. Comp 8v8 are already rating battles.
Excellent performance.

[BeaniBirb]

8v8 sucks, every game is a curb stomp due to everyone still playing it as 12v12, only realizing after 3 kills of the enemy team they've basically already won or lost the game.

[Krizalius]

We have twink-fake

[Verustus]

Krizalius, on 17 March 2022 - 11:49 PM, said:

Excellent performance.

I am talking about what is actually happening.
The issue of tonnage not matching is there, and we don't hear about tonnage matching for both teams when there is a group of 4.

You raised the issue of whether the manager who admitted the harm of 4-person groups played them himself, but you ignore the reports of mechwarriors who played them and saw 4-person groups and 8v8 as a problem.

Edited by Pictor, 18 March 2022 - 12:25 AM.

[Gagis]

8v8 is vastly superior to 12v12. Yes please!

Perhaps having a 8v8 group queue where you can opt in by dropping in a group of one would satisfy most people.

[Toshitsugu Takamatsu]

I just love it!
This is so much fun!

[Otsdarva24]

Oh heck yes. I didn't realize this was happening until I'd joined a game, but wow did it make a difference.

I hope going forward this is something that we can experience more, either as an option or a permanent change, 8v8 feels perfect.

[TWLT S]

Maybe this thread shows one thing.... groups really have to be made transparent bc I think the perceived # of 4man/premade mans is much higher than der actual # of such groups.

[Brian McDurmot]

Nice idea and experiment. Think, as i´ve obeserved up to now in about 10 fights, it ´s a 8v8 heavy clash battle without long range or sniper options or their survivability on the 8v8 battlefield. Long rangers are wiped out fastly ... need for new strategies and set-ups of mechs as well as new selection rules for the used mechs.