563 replies to this topic

[Be Rough With Me Plz]

Obviously this 8v8 QP event is completely skewed with 4-man drops enabled and frequent tonnage discrepancies so peoples' experiences are all over the place.

In an actual thought-out and balanced 8v8 QP the experience will probably be different.
As it stands, the current environment completely removes the PUG aspect of the game.

Freedom of play no longer exists in this reduced environment. You're shoe-horning the majority of your player base into a method of play they are not familiar with which is, essentially, the antithesis of how QP has been played since the game went live.

When I say "Freedom of play", I mean the ability to go off on your own to **** around with the enemy (effectively) without worrying that a misposition (or running into counter-skirmishers) and your subsequent death will drastically lower your team's chance of Victory. It's not fun when you can't play how you want to play and it's even more detrimental to your team now because an early death could pretty much mean an insta-loss when, in a 12v12, it wouldn't affect your chances nearly as much.

Is this necessarily a bad thing? No, but you're still removing a person's ability to enjoy the game solo. Removal of an option just because is never a good thing. With a game that already has a fairly low active population, it's downright suicidal.

[Ronbo]

To add the data in this thread, i gave up reading on page 17...
[color=#030303]I'm Tier4/5 after a year (because PSR is broke as well) and doing matches for over an hour the other night with teammate. I lasted longer and did better with my Kodiak in first 2 matches. Still lost, but it looked like we were all heavies and assaults, with 1-2 lights/mediums. then we switched to mediums and then a few matches in lights. Other team was or felt always had heavies and assaults and we just couldn't do much with the tonnage disparity. Got stomped. Couldn't have any fun just poking in a light as can't do much damage to help team. PSR ratings, the tonnage and group queue matchmaker should be fixed. Also have option to have 8v8 matches as well as 12v12 in QP options. [/color][color=#030303] [/color][color=#030303]If 8v8, then tonnage setup like a standard lance of what, 1 assault, 2 heavy/1heavy medium and a light would help or tonnage cap for each lance? [/color][color=#030303]Perhaps 8v8 would be best for the smaller maps like mining collective or forest colony snow classic etc. That way, players know, well if you choose that map, its 8v8 or something. Just adding my .02[/color]

[RogueGarou]

I have been playing since Beta when 8v8 was normal. The 12v12 was a large improvement then. I do not enjoy the 8v8 change this weekend. There are good things to it, matches usually seem to load more quickly and the matches are much shorter. That is also a downside, though, the matches are over more quickly so more time is spent finding and loading matches. Yes, they load more quickly but you are loading matches more often.

The largest issues I see with 8v8 are things people have already mentioned. A large group joining does impact the game play more significantly. Also, the maps have been increased in size over the years as the normal play mode was 12v12 so it can take time for forces to cross the map and engage with the larger maps and reduced players. Additional things that impact the matchmaking is that it seems the Mech tonnage\class is not skewed properly for this change. I have seen many matches with 3-5 assault Mechs on one side. There is often a similar number on the opposite side but not always.

One thing I have also noted is that something seems to be odd with damage tracking since the March patch. I have observed some Mechs being essentially indestructible. One case in particular I observed a Centurion taking direct fire from three Mechs and being hit by LRMs. It was only Mech I shot at that match because the player had walked ahead of his team and was in the open. I recorded over 200 points of damage dealt that match. This Centurion proceeded to kill each of the three Mechs shooting it and 2 more Mechs. One of the assault Mechs shooting it dealt over 500 damage. At the end of the match, the Centurion was still at 80% health and with armor over all locations based on observing the last Mech that had it targeted at the end of the match before it killed that Mech. That is a very weird thing to watch considering the Mech has a max of around 350 armor.

I would also suggest that the speed tweaks provided to Light or fast Mechs works well when there are 12 Mechs but skews toward excessive with only 8 Mechs per team.

It would impact matchmaking but restricting each team to 2 Mechs of each class might be something to try in the future if this mode of play is retained. My preference is that it is not retained. Or at least not retained without additional changes to map size and team composition.

My personal observation is that most matches are not enjoyable in 8v8. Almost all matches end with 1-2 Mechs killed on one side and 8 on the other. I recall three matches which were close and ended with 1v2, 2v2, or 1v1. The others have almost all been decisive games with one side losing. Many matches have had 3-4 Mechs killed within 90 seconds of contact starting and the remainder of the match was merely the other Mechs destroying what is left of the losing team.

At any rate, thank you for trying something new in the game. I would pass on 8v8 as a general change to the game without other changes being applied. Maybe the next time you try a change it could be a weekend of 16v16? And maybe schedule these weekend tests during a period when there are not a bunch of other events going on.

[RogueGarou]

Something I forgot to mention because it has not happened too many times over the weekend, so far. When someone disconnects from the game, for whatever reason, it is a significant impact to that team. In 12v12, it often isn't as much of an impact but in 8v8 it does seem to be a large impact.

[Steel Shanks]

Less is NOT More...

PGI why do you hate Us? We all, I assume, love BattleTech/Mechwarrior right? I mean... do We? Emphasis on WE...

8 vs 8 sux... Like super-fecking-sux... Like, The Last Jedi sux guys... It's bad...

My Team won every match I fought in, which is not great. Four Assaults on other team, and We had 0 Assaults in one match. We just ran around, 3 Lights, ripping them to pieces... You know who could have saved them? Charlie Lance...

Are you guys taking pages from Disney on how to treat fans? Cause yer doing a bang up job lads. I'll be playing HBS BattleTech until this 8 vs 8 ***** is over... Sad times for Mechwarrior...

[TestBacon]

Nope, not a fan of 8 vs 8 quick play. This really puts a damper on having the weekend off, booting up the game, and finding it... reduced compared to what I'm used to. Not happy.

[Kalamar Sinn]

Absolutely hate 8x8, totally kills the game for me, after years of being a dedicated paying player I will hang the game up if this become the norm, or is run again.

TestBacon, on 19 March 2022 - 05:19 PM, said:

Nope, not a fan of 8 vs 8 quick play. This really puts a damper on having the weekend off, booting up the game, and finding it... reduced compared to what I'm used to. Not happy.

Exactly. I would normally log at least 8 hours over a weekend, I think I have1/2 since this started. A game normally can easily have 1-2 afk/dc's, that trend continues with 8x8, for a 12x12 you still have a pretty good chance if you're down 1-2, but in 8x8 that 1-2 is a huge chunk of a small team.

[Bakey]

8v8 is fine. 8v8 with the current busted matchmaker and 4 man groups is not fine. I have great games where things feel fair and fun, and then I run into a stacked 4 man opfor and know there's zero hope of winning.

[OneTeamPlayer]

Just ran a match of Domination on Grim Plexus where we lost with zero shots fired because we had no one fast enough to enter the circle before a full minute of time ran out.

[Marcus Markov]

T6 player here. Queue times have been much shorter. Team play has been much tighter. Stomps have been stompier. Played all the classes. Am terrible, but assaults have been especially craptacular and lights have been amazing. Will play MWO whatever mode because pew pew pew.

[Steel Shanks]

PGI, I've read every comment for the 8 vs. 8 here's what I've found...

Every Mechwarrior against the 8 vs 8 are guys I've actually seen in game, and are guys that would really like Faction Play to be made better... Or you know, playable without waiting 20 fecking minutes for a match...

Every Mechwarrior for 8 vs 8 are generally guys from Beta, or guys who haven't played in years, or guys I've either barely seen or never seen play...

So, how bout making the guys who play currently ( i.e. Me ) happy and keeping 12 vs 12, and not the ***** from Beta?

Also, Groups of 4 are no issue lol, idk why people think they are. If I can't play with My Lancemates, then I'm not playing. A Team of 4 is not a game changer. My Lance has lost... We aren't invincible.

All in all though, this hurts MWO. You guys keep pissing us off, it's like You WANT Us to STOP playing... I mean is that it? You guys want MWO to die faster than it is? On to the next project huh? Man... Sad times for Mechwarrior...

[panzerd18]

Here's a tip. Make 8vs8 solo drop only without groups and the matchmaker will have a fighting chance to balance teams. 8vs8 solo would be fantastic. I solely blame groups in 12vs12 and 8vs8 for causing the tonnage imbalance between teams.

Another option to bring most groups to the same relative tonnage is to drastically increase minimum tonnage and decrease maximum tonnage allowed. This will be beneficial as you won't see 4 player groups drop in all light mechs and dooming their team from the start.

[killkimno]

Do not active 8vs8 until change the matching system

Edited by killkimno, 19 March 2022 - 07:33 PM.

[Crimsonskye]

8v8 IS THE WORST THING EVER!! 4 man pre-made teams vs unskilled Pug drops with no tactics and completely unbalance tonnage. Pure crap. If this becomes a regular thing I will be done with this game no matter how many of hundreds of dollars I have spent on it over these many years.

[Occisor4423]

Many people realize that groups of 4 have excessive influence in 8v8, but 4 person influence is also excessive in 12v12 to begin with.

The groups of 4 have existed in 12v12 for years, forcing users to adapt, get used to it or give up, but the environment changed worse so rapidly this weekend that we were reminded of the problem.

I hope that the abandonment of the 8v8 adoption is a given, but I also hope that this test will provide an opportunity to reduce the number of groups to 3 people or less in 12v12.

Edited by Occisor4423, 20 March 2022 - 10:05 AM.

[RabidQua1l]

Yay 8v8 I finally have a impact on the match and its more strategic and less murder ball only. However it will make getting Ace of spades and Death Star harder. Well there's still invasion I would be a lot more happier if the game stayed this way thanks.

[StrongMouse]

OK, PGI wanted feedback, so here are my 8v8 Observations. This is what I have noticed during the 20+ matches that I played.

Queue times were about 60 seconds faster than the 12v12 matches I have played recently. The tonnage match-up was skewed in some games as expected, usually resulting in lopsided match results. Objectives were typically not played. Every match but one that I played was played as Skirmish/Annihilation mode regardless of the vote outcome. Most matches degenerated into brutal slug fests once the teams were engaged. Strategy and objectives were mostly disregarded. As such, most matches were typically decided in favor of the team to get the first 1 to 2 kills. Recovery from this deficit usually did not happen. Pre-made groups further increased this problem.

From what I saw, heavy or assault mechs with high alpha/Meta builds were the most successful. Fast light/medium builds with a lot of small weapons were also successful. Damage over time builds were subpar. Unless part of a pre-made group working together with a spotter, ATM and LRM builds were not consistently effective. Also unless in a group, a player that tried scouting or flanking solo was usually ineffective or the first mech to be destroyed.

The social aspect of the match has declined and communications were mostly nonexistent. Most players did not use voice communication except to complain about another player's performance.

I played fully skilled and partially skilled mechs. Any mech that was below approximately 50 applied skill points was at a very noticeable disadvantage usually causing early deaths. This meant lower experience per match and potentially making skilling up a new mech to be a grind. I suppose this grind could be overcome if you're willing to pay real money for GSP...

In my humble opinion I feel the 8v8 mode in its current configuration should be dropped.

I think Quick Play should be a fun way to play the game, not be a hardcore annihilation match. I feel that hardcore matches should be done in faction or comp play modes where everyone is of the same mindset. I also feel that Quick Play should be a place to learn how a new mech performs and see what builds work best for you.

The experience point grind that will be required in 8v8 mode discourages me from purchasing any new mechs in the future. Also, I feel there is no point in investing in a game that forces me as a player to use a narrow set of build choices dictated by someone else (not to mention the cost of re-equipping and re-skilling a number of my current mechs to make them viable). For me, experimental and non-meta builds have been a fun aspect of this game.

The 8v8 mode was much less fun that 12v12. It is too intense and not sociable enough to make me want to play this mode regularly. 8v8 is fun if you just want to go out and try to overpower your opponents with Meta Burst or PPFL damage builds.

However I think the 8v8 or even a 4v4 configuration would be a good addition or a possible replacement to the current Solaris 7 arena with suitable rewards. From what I experienced of the 8v8 play mentality this weekend, where the only apparent objective is to annihilate the other players as fast as possible, it would be better suited for the gladiator style of play that Solaris 7 was intended to represent.

Again, this is only my opinion . GL&HF out there!

[Matmoesa]

iv played a handful of solo drops and the 8v8 feels nice even when up against 2 4 men and I have a ragtag group iv noticed teamwork overall has been better and group discussion is up.

I have also noticed that people wander off less and light mech play is a bit more noticeable.

I'm yet to see how a 2 4man rush team vs a mixed range team plays out. ( how much spanking is delt out )

overall I'm a fan

[ohnokylewhy]

i really hate how this experiment was rolled out - makes me feel like the game is the tester and i'm being tested.

in theory 8v8 would've been really neat, but here we are, twenty-four pages later, and folks talking about glaring issues. i played, i experienced it, i'm not happy about it.

what a disappointment this is. y'all must be thoroughly embarrassed.

results of the test are in: this misses the mark so hard that i'm uninstalling, taking mechwarrior 5 off my wishlist, and looking forward to celebrating the day another company gets the mechwarrior license.

Edited by ohnokylewhy, 19 March 2022 - 10:27 PM.

[The Kinda Brave Little Toaster]

Know where 8v8 might work well? Faction play. The match making times would be way shorter.