43 replies to this topic

[Mahpsy]

So as much as a Mechwarrior fan that I am I'm struggle to rationalize giving any money to PGI atm.

I'm just wondering if there is potentially anything worth while coming along maps aside. Say like new mechs, new weapons, hell I'll take even Non-cannon weapons like
Clan Rotary ac's 2-20
Rotary Gauss, Lower range w/ spread like an LB/very hot if not used in bursts.
Laser Arrays, micro-small(functions like 3 weapons but takes 1 hard point and 3 slot with = tonnage
Machine Gun Array's
Chem Lasers
Heavy/ER Flamers
Heavy MRM
Streak MRM
Streak LRM
Streak ATM
Mortars (IMO what the game needs instead of arty/airstrike spam till one team runs out)
Railgun
Mines

The list goes on. But I hear you thinking

" But Mahpsy, the game balance would go to **** again!"

Sometimes you need to change things up in order to keep a game alive. New weapons alone could push 2-5 years worth of gameplay easy.

But this is the kind of stuff that would make me want to invest money again. Dono about everyone ells.

Edited by Mahpsy, 02 April 2022 - 07:09 AM.

[martian]

Mahpsy, on 20 March 2022 - 08:59 AM, said:

So as much as a Mechwarrior fan that I am I'm struggle to rationalize giving any money to PGI atm.

You are not alone.

Mahpsy, on 20 March 2022 - 08:59 AM, said:

I'm just wondering if there is potentially anything worth while coming along maps aside. Say like new mechs,

PGI hinted that either Crusader (65 tons; Inner Sphere) or Phoenix Hawk IIC (80 tons, Clan) may be coming eventually.

Mahpsy, on 20 March 2022 - 08:59 AM, said:

new weapons, hell I'll take even Non-cannon weapons like
Clan Rotary ac's 2-20
Rotary Gauss, Lower range w/ spread like an LB/very hot if not used in bursts.
Laser Arrays, micro-small(functions like 3 weapons but takes 1 slot with = tonnage
Machine Gun Array's
Chem Lasers
Heavy/ER Flamers
Heavy MRM
Streak MRM
Streak LRM
Streak ATM
Mortars (IMO what the game needs instead of arty/airstrike spam till one team runs out)
Railgun
Mines

The list goes on. But I hear you thinking

" But Mahpsy, the game balance would go to **** again!"

Sometimes you need to change things up in order to keep a game alive. New weapons alone could push 2-5 years worth of gameplay easy.

But this is the kind of stuff that would make me want to invest money again. Dono about everyone ells.

In theory, adding new weapons should be possible, especially if they could use existing models and special effects.But as you noticed, there would be the balancing problems:

• Inner Sphere vs. Clan
  
• one weapons better than the majority of other MWO weapons.

Mahpsy, on 20 March 2022 - 08:59 AM, said:

Rotary Gauss, Lower range w/ spread like an LB/very hot if not used in bursts

I guess that you could be interested in Hyper-Assault Gauss Rifle.

And let us not forget about Plasma weapons such as Plasma Rifle and Plasma Cannon.

[Mahpsy]

martian, on 20 March 2022 - 10:05 AM, said:

You are not alone.



PGI hinted that either Crusader (65 tons; Inner Sphere) or Phoenix Hawk IIC (80 tons, Clan) may be coming eventually.



In theory, adding new weapons should be possible, especially if they could use existing models and special effects.But as you noticed, there would be the balancing problems:

• Inner Sphere vs. Clan
  
• one weapons better than the majority of other MWO weapons.

I guess that you could be interested in Hyper-Assault Gauss Rifle.

And let us not forget about Plasma weapons such as Plasma Rifle and Plasma Cannon.

Yeah the list is pretty massive, was just throwing out a few examples

[FupDup]

In general I want moar guns. A lot more.

But some of these suggestions are for weird things that don't exist in-universe and wouldn't have a sensible place in the game even if they did. WTF is a Heavy MRM?

[martian]

Mahpsy, on 20 March 2022 - 10:08 AM, said:

Yeah the list is pretty massive, was just throwing out a few examples

The bad news is that the team currently working on MechWarrior Online consists of approximately 3-4 people.

[Mahpsy]

FupDup, on 20 March 2022 - 10:09 AM, said:

In general I want moar guns. A lot more.

But some of these suggestions are for weird things that don't exist in-universe and wouldn't have a sensible place in the game even if they did. WTF is a Heavy MRM?

Higher damage, high heat, and fire rate with chance to jam. So the ultra auto cannon of missiles more or less.

Edited by Mahpsy, 20 March 2022 - 10:19 AM.

[Mahpsy]

martian, on 20 March 2022 - 10:14 AM, said:

The bad news is that the team currently working on MechWarrior Online consists of approximately 3-4 people.

Honestly at this point they are better off giving the keys to the modders like Terraria did.

[JudauAshta]

still waiting on x-pulse lasers

[martian]

JudauAshta, on 20 March 2022 - 10:22 AM, said:

still waiting on x-pulse lasers

It is funny that MechWarrior 3 and MechWarrior 4 had those lasers.

[caravann]

The game takes play at year 3064 right after the solaris 7 incident at year 3063

During the Federated Commonwealth Civil War

Heavy MRM doesn't exist in mechwarrior and hasn't been introduced or is too far away in the timeline.

One weapon who isn't in the game is the bombast laser.

[Mahpsy]

caravann, on 20 March 2022 - 11:02 AM, said:

The game takes play at year 3064 right after the solaris 7 incident at year 3063

During the Federated Commonwealth Civil War

Heavy MRM doesn't exist in mechwarrior and hasn't been introduced or is too far away in the timeline.

One weapon who isn't in the game is the bombast laser.

The cannon authenticity went out the window as soon as they introduced the Sun Spider and Corsair IMO so it shouldn't matter.

[martian]

caravann, on 20 March 2022 - 11:02 AM, said:

The game takes play at year 3064 right after the solaris 7 incident at year 3063

The game has the Dark Age MAD-6S Marauder II.

caravann, on 20 March 2022 - 11:02 AM, said:

One weapon who isn't in the game is the bombast laser.

Not exactly an example of a practical weapon.

[Der Geisterbaer]

Mahpsy, on 20 March 2022 - 08:59 AM, said:

I'm just wondering if there is potentially anything worth while coming along maps aside. Say like new mechs, new weapons, hell I'll take even Non-cannon weapons like
Clan Rotary ac's 2-20
Rotary Gauss, Lower range w/ spread like an LB/very hot if not used in bursts.
Laser Arrays, micro-small(functions like 3 weapons but takes 1 slot with = tonnage
Machine Gun Array's
Chem Lasers
Heavy/ER Flamers
Heavy MRM
Streak MRM
Streak LRM
Streak ATM
Mortars (IMO what the game needs instead of arty/airstrike spam till one team runs out)
Railgun
Mines

MW:O doesn't need Machine Gun Arrays because all machine guns on a mech already converge into the exact same target zone that you're aiming at. As a matter of fact both the FLE-19 (which formally is a Jihad era mech) and the MLX-G (another formally Jihad era mech) according to their canon TT loadout should include 2 machine gun arrays but were spared the associated cost of 1 ton by PGI simply because of that fact.

Given the current implementation of standard flamers what purpose exactly would ER flamers with a halved heat (and damage) induction serve?
How would heavy flamers with the added problem of ammo restriction have to work in order to be even remotely worth considerations?

Mahpsy, on 20 March 2022 - 08:59 AM, said:

The list goes on. But I hear you thinking

" But Mahpsy, the game balance would go to **** again!"

So I'm not necessarily thinking that the game balance would go to **** but instead I'm asking myself if you have actually put any thought into which weapon and weapon support systems would represent something truly "new" to begin with before then considering how those particular weapons are supposed to be implemented in a game that for all intents and purposes is running on life-support?!

Edited by Der Geisterbaer, 20 March 2022 - 11:58 AM.

[caravann]

The game has piranha , which shouldn't be in the game.

Since there are no boundaries, I want nukes on urbies, Heavy aerospace fighters shooting down the enemy team dropship before it land and helldiving dropships crushing mechs on the ground (sumire) and orbital laser cannon killing everything in its path. It rounds up with small arms like the core destroyer of planets. Then we go to big guns. The moon cruncher, drags the whole moon on the planet. The planet slingshot, shoots away a planet like a bullet and hits another planet. The supernova merging two stars into another causing an explosion killing all lives in the solar system. The Titan class, mech with size of a small planet. Spacespears, spaceships who are launched away by the Titan and causes a lighting strike that split the planet like an apple. The xena chakram.

[Mahpsy]

Der Geisterbaer, on 20 March 2022 - 11:57 AM, said:

MW:O doesn't need Machine Gun Arrays because all machine guns on a mech already converge into the exact same target zone that you're aiming at. As a matter of fact both the FLE-19 (which formally is a Jihad era mech) and the MLX-G (another formally Jihad era mech) according to their canon TT loadout should include 2 machine gun arrays but were spared the associated cost of 1 ton by PGI simply because of that fact.

Given the current implementation of standard flamers what purpose exactly would ER flamers with a halved heat (and damage) induction serve?
How would heavy flamers with the added problem of ammo restriction have to work in order to be even remotely worth considerations?




So I'm not necessarily thinking that the game balance would go to **** but instead I'm asking myself if you have actually put any thought into which weapon and weapon support systems would represent something truly "new" to begin with before then considering how those particular weapons are supposed to be implemented in a game that for all intents and purposes is running on life-support?!

Honestly when it comes to flamers my personal preference would to have them be a fire and forget weapon leaving a heat debuff on the target on a long cd with diminishing returns when stacked on the target to prevent flamer abuse.

When it comes to the machinegun arrays its not so much about the convergence but flexibility for mechs with extremely limited hardpoints. Locusts, spiders, Ice Ferret etc.

Edited by Mahpsy, 20 March 2022 - 12:11 PM.

[martian]

caravann, on 20 March 2022 - 11:59 AM, said:

The game has piranha , which shouldn't be in the game.

Piranha is Clan BattleMech that debuted in 3051.

caravann, on 20 March 2022 - 11:59 AM, said:

Since there are no boundaries, I want nukes on urbies, Heavy aerospace fighters shooting down the enemy team dropship before it land and helldiving dropships crushing mechs on the ground (sumire) and orbital laser cannon killing everything in its path. It rounds up with small arms like the core destroyer of planets. Then we go to big guns. The moon cruncher, drags the whole moon on the planet. The planet slingshot, shoots away a planet like a bullet and hits another planet. The supernova merging two stars into another causing an explosion killing all lives in the solar system. The Titan class, mech with size of a small planet. Spacespears, spaceships who are launched away by the Titan and causes a lighting strike that split the planet like an apple. The xena chakram.

If you say so ...

[Der Geisterbaer]

Mahpsy, on 20 March 2022 - 12:09 PM, said:

When it comes to the machinegun arrays its not so much about the convergence but flexibility for mechs with extremely limited hardpoints. Locusts, spiders, Ice Ferret etc.

So your idea of machine gun arrays is a means of creating a form of hardpoint inflation tool on mechs with ballistic hardpoints instead of what machine gun arrays are supposed to do according to TT.

Now let's forget that MW:O actually has a fixed upper limit of weapons that a mech can carry (and certain clan omnipod combinations actually exceeding that limit thus leading to "invalid" loadouts) and assume that instead of adding singular machine guns to an array we'd get size 2 and size 4 machine gun arrays that take a singular ballistic slot and deal double / quadruple machine gun damage at 1.5t (IS) [1t (Clan) ] / 2.5t (IS) [1.5t (Clan)] and ask ourselves this:

Which mechs would actually benefit from these more? Those "extremely hardpoint limited" (smaller) mechs you mentioned (that more than often already need serious ammo quirks and in some cases rate of fire quirks to be worthwhile) or significantly larger mechs that can easily spare the tonnage and crits slots - thereby doubling / quadroupling their machine gun damage output?!

[LordNothing]

Der Geisterbaer, on 20 March 2022 - 11:57 AM, said:

MW:O doesn't need Machine Gun Arrays because all machine guns on a mech already converge into the exact same target zone that you're aiming at. As a matter of fact both the FLE-19 (which formally is a Jihad era mech) and the MLX-G (another formally Jihad era mech) according to their canon TT loadout should include 2 machine gun arrays but were spared the associated cost of 1 ton by PGI simply because of that fact.

i think mgas should just be machine guns for fatmechs. the way mgs were implemented only make sense for lights and a select few other mechs.

low tonnage mechs were just given a lot of hard points, they could only effectively use them for machine guns, and couldnt really afford to install heavier ballistics.

legacy mechs with fewer hardpoints were given rof quirks. these are mostly available to lights, rare on other mechs.

mechs with tonnage to burn need to keep their hardpoint count small, otherwise the ballistic boat builds would get out of control. this makes machine guns a waste of space, you just cant carry enough to make it worth your while.

so the way to do it is to just make mgas 1:1 equivalent to a number of machine guns, however there will be a small tonnage and slottage penalty and they would not receive the rof quirks (those could be made available in the form of mga quirks if needed). so if you managed to cram a couple into a light, you wouldn't get the usual benefits from the rof quirks and you have to pay the penalties. if you managed to cram a large number into a light, they would devour ammo and your build would lose endurance. a heavier mech can just shrug off the penalty. i don't think they would be too op for larger mechs, mostly on the grounds that they are brawly weapons. it may not be the tt way, but it is compatible with the existing design intent.

Edited by LordNothing, 20 March 2022 - 01:15 PM.

[Mahpsy]

Der Geisterbaer, on 20 March 2022 - 12:43 PM, said:

So your idea of machine gun arrays is a means of creating a form of hardpoint inflation tool on mechs with ballistic hardpoints instead of what machine gun arrays are supposed to do according to TT.

Now let's forget that MW:O actually has a fixed upper limit of weapons that a mech can carry (and certain clan omnipod combinations actually exceeding that limit thus leading to "invalid" loadouts) and assume that instead of adding singular machine guns to an array we'd get size 2 and size 4 machine gun arrays that take a singular ballistic slot and deal double / quadruple machine gun damage at 1.5t (IS) [1t (Clan) ] / 2.5t (IS) [1.5t (Clan)] and ask ourselves this:

Which mechs would actually benefit from these more? Those "extremely hardpoint limited" (smaller) mechs you mentioned (that more than often already need serious ammo quirks and in some cases rate of fire quirks to be worthwhile) or significantly larger mechs that can easily spare the tonnage and crits slots - thereby doubling / quadroupling their machine gun damage output?!

It works both ways. It still takes 3 slots to equip because it's 3 machineguns. It would make no difference to the mechs who can already boat them. It would change nothing(Edit: very little). Take the Thunderbolt 5sp with the 2 random ballistic hardpoints on the left arm. What would only be 2 machineguns has now become 6. But in return you now took up 6 slots not including ammo.

Edited by Mahpsy, 20 March 2022 - 01:34 PM.

[Der Geisterbaer]

LordNothing, on 20 March 2022 - 01:12 PM, said:

i think mgas should just be machine guns for fatmechs.
[..]

mechs with tonnage to burn need to keep their hardpoint count small, otherwise the ballistic boat builds would get out of control. this makes machine guns a waste of space.

so the way to do it is to just make mgas 1:1 equivalent to a number of machine guns, however there will be a small tonnage and slottage penalty and they would not receive the rof quirks (those could be made available in the form of mga quirks if needed). so if you managed to cram a couple into a light, you wouldn't get the usual benefits from the rof quirks and you have to pay the penalties. if you managed to cram a large number into a light, they would devour ammo and your build would lose endurance. a heavier mech can just shrug off the penalty. i don't think they would be too op for larger mechs, mostly on the grounds that they are brawly weapons. it may not be the tt way, but it is compatible with the existing design intent.

Well, that's obviously a very different goal than Mahpsy had in mind. You're now directly advocating for machine gun inflation on the "big boys" .. as if they truly needed that. An ANH-2A with the equivalent of 24 light (or how about heavy) machine guns would certainly "spice up" things there, wouldn't it?