Mahpsy, on 20 March 2022 - 01:55 PM, said:
When it comes to those mechs you listed it's up to the user.
No, your original stated intent was to "help" those mechs
you listed ... which supposedly were lights with lower ballistic slot counts than the more extreme examples of PIR-1, FLE-19, ACH-E and MLX-G with 8 to 12 ballistic slots that most of the time can only reasonably well be used as machine gun slots.
But other lights you mentioned most of the time wouldn't actually benefit that much from such arrays. Instead you'd get to see PIR-1 level (and above) machine gun loadouts on heavier mediums, heavies and assaults (anything that has at least 3 ballistic slots) along with what the PIR-1 doesn't have:
a ) greater quantities of armor that actually allows the mech in question to face time others
b ) "side weaponry" that is way more dangerous than those three heavy-smalls that the PIR-1 commonly has next to those machine guns.
Mahpsy, on 20 March 2022 - 01:55 PM, said:
Not everyone plays to play the best meta build.
And now you're entering strawman territory. This wasn't about "meta builds" or ...
Mahpsy, on 20 March 2022 - 01:55 PM, said:
This is why people deliberately stay in T4 and T5.
... (supposedly) deliberately tanking one's personal rating to stay in lower tiers. This was about your idea not actually benefitting those mechs that you orinigally mentioned as the intended targets for the benefits of your suggestion and from there it became about the actual ramifications for "the meta" if PGI truly decided to allow machine gun inflation via machine gun arrays in the manner that you proposed.
Mahpsy, on 20 March 2022 - 01:55 PM, said:
It's up to the user to find what's fun for them.
Considering the whining from certain people about the alleged OP-ness of the heat-less 12 dps that a PIR-1 can deliver how do you expect people to feel about heavies and assaults exceeding PIR-1 machine gun numbers along with way more armor and better additional weaponry?
Side note: It's kind of ironic that Nomad Tech just gave you a like on your comment there ...
Mahpsy, on 20 March 2022 - 01:55 PM, said:
More energy? More ballistics? Experimentation isn't bad for the game in this context.
Since nobody said that experimentation was bad: Yet another strawman.
Mahpsy, on 20 March 2022 - 01:55 PM, said:
When it comes to the ammo quirks I've been advocating it for ALL lights and even some medium mechs. If a mech can only use specific weapon systems that it cant even run efficiently or well at all most players, you guessed it, wont be played at all. Like the LCT-3S(yes i know it's not a ballistic mech just making a point about ammo efficiency.)
You'll have to decide here. Are you trying to talk "efficiency" or "fun". Just some sentences prior you tried to tell me that it wasn't about efficency / meta.
But for the sake of the argument let's instead of the LCT-3S take a look at this loadout for a
LCT-1V.
That one already has ammo
and RoF quirks. Giving machine gun arrays to this mech would require down-grading the light PPC to a medium laser along with single heat sinks instead of double ones ... that would indeed allow using 4 crit slot machine guns array with 3 machine guns in either arm but the available ammo would still be only 1.5 tons ...
Mahpsy, on 20 March 2022 - 01:55 PM, said:
When you say they can be insane on heavy's and assaults. Think about it.
I'd strongly suggest that you do the thinking there instead of me.
One key argument about the PIR-1's ability to boat 12 machine guns (of either size, although a 12 hmg PIR-1 tends to be "ineffective") is it's lack of larger amounts of armor and its relatively weak secondary weaponry (upon which it actually depends to breach remaining armor in targeted zones). Now think about the prospect of any larger mech that has a minimum of 3 ballistic hardpoints in a minimum of 2 different zones and recognize that now any of those mechs has PIR-1 level of machine gun access with usually way stronger "secondary" weaponry and way more armor.
Mahpsy, on 20 March 2022 - 01:55 PM, said:
How often do you see assaults now a days get within 120m unless they are making a push around a corner.
I guess your imagination didn't quite get behind what I was trying to tell you when mentioning the ANH-2A. For reference take a look at this
custom build 24 LMG Array Anni
Note that
- the CASE was used to simulate the crit slots taken by actual machine gun arrays in accordance to "Lore"
- the "missing" 3 tons of tonnage are the canon weight of 6 machine gun arrays outside the guns mounted on these arrays.
- the TAC comp is there just for the fun of increasing the crit rates for those light machine guns.
This mech wouldn't have to get within 120m to start its armor shredding carnage. Also try to understand that this 24 machine gun ANH-2A wasn't mentioned with the intent of delivering the "be all end all" of dangers but merely an obvious entry point to where things certainly would get out of hand very fast: So far I only made examples where I referenced one of the slowest IS assault mechs that happens to have 6 ballistic slots ... now try to think about Clan mechs and omnis
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LordNothing, on 20 March 2022 - 02:31 PM, said:
well if it dies to vomit on its way to shoot you, then its not a very effective build now is it?
You're creating a false dilemma
LordNothing, on 20 March 2022 - 02:31 PM, said:
i think id also advocate for lac/pac,
While I agree that LACs / PACs would indeed be a good addition when trying to (also) expand the weapon portfolio of Light mechs I strongly disagree that ...
LordNothing, on 20 March 2022 - 02:31 PM, said:
because its effectively the same problem in reverse. few lights can mount viable autocannon options, especially on the is side.
... this situation is "the same problem in reverse". The inclusion of machine gun arrays in the manner that you are advocating for is a direct inflation of existing ballistic hard points that mainly benefit heavier mechs (that can afford both the crit slots and the weight) while doing little to nothing for the smaller ones that aren't already "machine gun boats". And the weight discrepancy between IS machine guns and Clan machine guns would only be further emphasized.
LACs and PACs on the other hand would cause zero hard point inflation and wouldn't directly favour particular weight classes either.
Edited by Der Geisterbaer, 21 March 2022 - 11:36 AM.