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Nightbird, on 29 March 2022 - 06:06 PM, said:
Why not let the voters decide what is better?
Because they vote for what gets them easy rewards every time, the map that punishes snipers and rewards nascar laservomit skirmishers. We've discussed this fallacy already, but its why toxic metas can be so damaging to a game; people will literally choose to do the less fun thing if it gets them better bing bing wahoos. They'll do it until its so unfun they burn out and quit. Designers need to actively be aware of when their games encourage players to play in a toxic way because you literally cant expect players to control themselves.
Extra Guac, on 29 March 2022 - 06:46 PM, said:
That's really not true. You could take the top, or take the bottom. A donut implies that you couldn't occupy the center of the map.
Its only redeeming quality. This is a nitpick at best. You can also take the top and bottom of new HPG and the added real estate makes it a vastly better experience, and the sniper perches add a piece of counterplay so that a faster or slightly more coordinated team still has to fight to hold the middle, rather than just win by default because they got there first and the opposition splintered.
Bud Crue, on 28 March 2022 - 08:06 PM, said:
There is no question that new HPG "plays differently" than old HPG, but how does a single map, even if I agree with your premise that THEE most popular map in the game was an objectively bad map, force or even encourage players to "cling to outdated builds and bad strategies" or prevent them from having to "avoid having to think critically and up their games"? What super inventive build and game upping techniques does new HPG encourage that old HPG didn't afford? What brilliant strategy is being consistently applied to new HPG that was impossible to utilize on old HPG?
Old HPG punished pretty much everything except modestly fast laser skirmishers. Its too small for snipers, and too open for lights. Its about as close to a grey box prototype map with generic boxes for obstacles as you can get. All the action goes straight to the middle, where it clashes on the top or bottom or nascars. Rare were the matches where the edge of the map was actually in play. If every match plays in one of 3 almost the same ways, the map isn't offering enough.
Bud Crue, on 28 March 2022 - 08:06 PM, said:
Sure there is less NASCAR around the center, but there is way more wall snipping and basement camping than there ever was before. Are those suddenly considered "good" strategies?
Yes. Literally yes. These are good things. The specific things certain people are loudly whining about are the exact reasons the new map is good. They don't like it because it offers a challenge they think they're entitled not to deal with.
If there's a center feature, holding it should be good, but not an auto win. There should be walls and perches to snipe off of. There should be enough pathways and cover for light mechs to hit and fade. There should be enough terrain for slow brawlers to maneuver cleverly. All of these strategies should be in play. If you can't pick the mech you want for the map you play, then each map must offer options for every valid playstyle, as new HPG does. That's how this works.
Old HPG punished pretty much everything except modestly fast laser skirmishers. Its about as close to a grey box prototype map with generic boxes for obstacles as you can get. All the action goes straight to the middle, where it clashes on the top or bottom or nascars. Rare were the matches where the edge of the map was actually in play.
