191 replies to this topic

[Nightbird]

Horseman, on 13 April 2022 - 11:52 AM, said:

They do, especially for ECM mechs since most of the required nodes are already part of the investment into Enhanced ECM.
In the new tree, the opportunity cost will be substantially smaller, making the expense much easier. So yes, I'd say that that is reason enough to make that skill less than 100% reduction when maxed, while leaving room to max it by stacking quirks on top.

ECM mechs sure, but other mechs? I don't really plan to, today or with the new tree. Firepower, survival, operations, and coolshots/strikes.

[Znail]

The main problem with Radar Deprivation is that it not only gets rid of the default delay, but also cancel Target Decay. It would be more fair if they nullified each other. But reducing the max from 100% would be a good start.

[w0qj]

[Edit: Proposed Skill Tree May/June 2022: just 10 [Edit: not 5] skill points to achieve 100% Radar Deprivation. Thanks to John Bronco! ]

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I max out to 100% Radar Deprivation; it's a lot of fun!
I consider this a poor man's ECM for those mechs that do not have ECM.

1) Existing Skill Tree April 2022: it takes 16 skill points to achieve 100% Radar Deprivation.
There is a huge opportunity cost for investing 16 skill points to achieve this.
Like less Armor/Structure skill nodes. Less Cooldown/Heat_Gen skill nodes. Perhaps losing most Consumable skill nodes. etc.

2) Proposed Skill Tree May/June 2022: just 10 [Edit: not 5] skill points to achieve 100% Radar Deprivation.
Almost no opportunity cost. Can be acquired from the freed-up 20x "filler skill nodes" previously used (hard brake, shock absorbance, speed retention).

I strongly feel that 100% Radar Deprivation must be reduced to 75% or 80%, if it takes "only" 5 skill points to achieve 100% Radar Deprivation going forward!

Nightbird, on 13 April 2022 - 11:23 AM, said:

Do people get 100% today though? Most people I know don't because survival is useful against all damage types.

Nightbird, on 13 April 2022 - 11:56 AM, said:

ECM mechs sure, but other mechs? I don't really plan to, today or with the new tree. Firepower, survival, operations, and coolshots/strikes.

Edited by w0qj, 13 April 2022 - 04:12 PM.

[VaMPHuNT]

Nightbird, on 13 April 2022 - 11:56 AM, said:

ECM mechs sure, but other mechs? I don't really plan to, today or with the new tree. Firepower, survival, operations, and coolshots/strikes.

So, I've actually sat down and used the Kitlaan website to crunch out some potential skill tree setups as though the new system was already out. Gotta say, at least 3/5 Radar Dep nodes (If not four or all five) will be stapled to each of my mechs, and those with ECM will absolutely be taking the ECM nodes going forward.

Here's a breakdown of what all you can get with the new system.

FIREPOWER:
SURVIVAL: 8x Reinforced Casing, 10x Skeletal Density, 10x Armor Hardening
AGILITY: As needed (Speed Tweak, etc)
JUMP CAPABILITIES: As needed
MECH OPERATIONS: As needed (Cool Run, Heat Containment, etc)
SENSOR SYSTEMS: 5x Sensor Range, 5x Rader Deprivation
MISC: 3x Consumbales, 2x Advanced Salvos, 1x Expanded Reserves, 1x Enhanced Spotting

TOTAL: 45 nodes used, 46 nodes remain. Assuming I'm using a laser boat such as my Banshee I'd pick up another 10 nodes for Cool Run and Heat Containment, so 36 remaining. Then another 14 for Heat Generation, 22 remain. 4x for Laser Duration nodes, 18 remain. 2x Enhanced Coolshot, 1x Coolshot Reserves, and 1x Coolshot Cooldown, 14 remain.

Those 14 nodes can be used for anything else I choose such as Cooldown, Range, Speed Tweak, etc. If I'm using a ballistics boat I can skimp on the Cool Run/Heat Containment nodes, probably cut down by 50% on the Heat Generation nodes. If I'm running Gauss I can cut out anything heat-related.

I don't see why you wouldn't spring to staple Radar Dep onto any mech with this new system. It's a 100% gain over what you would have had before. I can safely say all my heavy/assault mechs got 13/15 Armor Hardening nodes before and, if they were lucky, 2-3 Skeletal Density and 1-2 Reinforced Casings. With this update? They're getting all of that, plus Radar Dep. Sure, I'll be giving up some range and cooldown nodes in the process, but those aren't going to break the build by any means.

[martian]

VaMPHuNT, on 10 April 2022 - 08:28 PM, said:

Pretty sure a very high percentage of the playerbase would welcome a brand new chassis (With 4-6 variants including a hero/special/etc) over more booster packs that just add more variants to an already bloated tree of pre-existing mechs that have been min/maxed to death and back.

Honestly? I welcome just about all actual new content to the game, means it's doing well enough to warrant further development on the game and continued investment into the game by PGI. Booster packs that just introduce new special variants of pre-existing mechs take quite a bit less time, effort, and funds to produce, which is why they're inherently cheaper than mech pre-orders for brand new chassis.

A new chassis is probably better than just a new variant of an existing 'Mech with just one or two hardppoints added or removed.

After all, the players still have three months to preorder the Crusader.

[John Bronco]

w0qj, on 13 April 2022 - 12:48 PM, said:

I max out to 100% Radar Deprivation; it's a lot of fun!
I consider this a poor man's ECM for those mechs that do not have ECM.

1) Existing Skill Tree April 2022: it takes 16 skill points to achieve 100% Radar Deprivation.
There is a huge opportunity cost for investing 16 skill points to achieve this.
Like less Armor/Structure skill nodes. Less Cooldown/Heat_Gen skill nodes. Perhaps losing most Consumable skill nodes. etc.

2) Proposed Skill Tree May/June 2022: just 5 skill points to achieve 100% Radar Deprivation.
Almost no opportunity cost. Can be acquired from the freed-up 20x "filler skill nodes" previously used (hard brake, shock absorbance, speed retention).

I strongly feel that 100% Radar Deprivation must be reduced to 75% or 80%, if it takes "only" 5 skill points to achieve 100% Radar Deprivation going forward!

The pics show maxing radar dep in the proposed tree takes 10 points, not 5.

[Nightbird]

Ok, as long as people are willing to get radar derp it's all good. I didn't think it's worth the nodes when you get free walls to block missiles on most maps but if it is being used then w/e.

[w0qj]

Thanks!!
Above comments corrected for prosperity!

[Proposed Skill Tree May/June 2022: just 10 [Edit: not 5] skill points to achieve 100% Radar Deprivation.]

John Bronco, on 13 April 2022 - 01:49 PM, said:

The pics show maxing radar dep in the proposed tree takes 10 points, not 5.

Edited by w0qj, 13 April 2022 - 04:13 PM.

[martian]

Nightbird, on 13 April 2022 - 03:37 PM, said:

Ok, as long as people are willing to get radar derp it's all good. I didn't think it's worth the nodes when you get free walls to block missiles on most maps but if it is being used then w/e.

It seems to me that the players vote more often for the maps such as Alpine Peaks or Grim Plexus during various MWO events, because they can use their LRMs on those maps more easily. Finding "free walls" on Alpine Peaks is not so easy.

[Nightbird]

martian, on 13 April 2022 - 09:23 PM, said:

It seems to me that the players vote more often for the maps such as Alpine Peaks or Grim Plexus during various MWO events, because they can use their LRMs on those maps more easily. Finding "free walls" on Alpine Peaks is not so easy.

Sure, then for those events we can have event mechs and oh, we can call these "event nodes"

[C337Skymaster]

martian, on 13 April 2022 - 09:23 PM, said:

It seems to me that the players vote more often for the maps such as Alpine Peaks or Grim Plexus during various MWO events, because they can use their LRMs on those maps more easily. Finding "free walls" on Alpine Peaks is not so easy.

Perhaps not, but out-ranging LRMs on Alpine Peaks is a good deal more attainable and effective. ERLL, ERPPC, Gauss, and light autocannon can often double the range of any opposing missiles, and those clear sight lines work both ways. Combine that with the prevalence of ECM on the modern MWO battlefield, and unless someone's running NARCs, I find my performance with missiles to be about half that of direct-fire weaponry on Alpine.

Honestly, in general LRMs only work in Direct-Fire mode because you can't trust teammates to hold a lock for the entire flight time, and Target Decay only works on first-person locks, but the time it takes to acquire a target lock exposes you to extreme amounts of return fire compared to any of the other weapons mentioned above.

[Roodkapje]

C337Skymaster, on 12 April 2022 - 06:47 PM, said:

Target Decay is a very important set of skills to get on a LRM 'mech, and Sensor Range is helpful in combating the long-range effects of ECM, neither of which are necessary for any other type of missile.

Even if I had some LURM mechs I think I would't be bothered with those nodes to be honest...

What I do most of the time is :
- Survival Nodes for more Armor/Structure/etc.
- Range/Cooldown/Heat nodes.
- Laser nodes if the loadout has Lasers.
- UAC/DAKKA stuff if needed for RAC/UAC.
- Rocket stuff for my SRM/MRM/Streak mechs.
- The UAV related stuff to carry 1 more of them and extended the range when possible.
Usually for Light or some Medium mechs with only Lasers equipped that are good Scouts

And I don't see myself using anything else unless the 91 nodes limit is going to disappear one day...?!?!

Quote

PPCs are my favorite anti-ECM weapon, but in modern MWO, you need several PPCs on chain fire so you can knock out the two or three overlapping ECMs in the same area. Eventually, though, the heat sinking requirements for all those PPCs will use up all the spare tonnage you had for LRMs.

I have two Medium "Light Hunter" Mechs which have 1 x Light PPC or 2 x Light PPC and a TAG + Beagle Active Probe and most of the time just 1 hit with the PPC is enough to spam away the Streak 2 missiles at them