191 replies to this topic

[Garran Tana]

While the skill tree is better it's still bad that xp to sp conversion isn't automatic.
xp should change into sp automatically, same as gxp should turn into gsp as soon as you cumulate enough of the xp to be a sp. You just don't bother to mess around with xp, xp only tells you how far is for the next sp.

[Tarogato]

REDUCE THE NUMBER OF NODES.



"One of the key reasons we wanted to keep the exact same number of nodes is we didn't want to create a process of us refunding, doing some form of conversion on XP and Skills, and everybody having to go back and reskill mechs."

No.

I understand why you don't want to do it. It's a fair reason.

But the main complaint about the Skill Tree ALWAYS has been that it has too many nodes. Addressing THAT problem first should be the #1 primary goal here. If you're only going to half-rework the skill tree like this proposal, than I'd rather you not touch it at all. Rip the bandaid off, you're going to have to yank some hairs to do this properly. It needs fixed, not tickled.

[minnowzzz]

Tarogato, on 07 April 2022 - 09:57 AM, said:

REDUCE THE NUMBER OF NODES.



"One of the key reasons we wanted to keep the exact same number of nodes is we didn't want to create a process of us refunding, doing some form of conversion on XP and Skills, and everybody having to go back and reskill mechs."

No.

I understand why you don't want to do it. It's a fair reason.

But the main complaint about the Skill Tree ALWAYS has been that it has too many nodes. Addressing THAT problem first should be the #1 primary goal here. If you're only going to half-rework the skill tree like this proposal, than I'd rather you not touch it at all. Rip the bandaid off, you're going to have to yank some hairs to do this properly. It needs fixed, not tickled.

The issue with the amount of nodes is 1) the amount of clicking and 2) the cost of getting all of the nodes. and they have worked to help those issues without making everyone re-skill their mechs. by Reducing the amount of clicks, money and XP needed to fully skill the mechs they reduced the impact of having so many nodes.

[w0qj]

Looks good!

How about a "Career" overlay (2nd layer) on top of these skill trees?
(similar to StarTrek Online does its skill trees):

For example:

(1) Achieving >75% of Sensors Nodes:
---------------------------------------------------
a) Endgame Career Skill #1: "Flanker"
~Hitting enemy from sides/behind gives +2% bonus all damage for 10 seconds

b ) Endgame Career Skill #2: "Tunnel Vision"
~Each successive hit on enemy reduces -5% enemy sensor range for 10 seconds, cumulative to -20% for 40 seconds.
~At the same time, each successive hit on enemy reduces your own damage -5% for 10 seconds, cumulative to -20% damage.

c) Endgame Career Skill #3: "Divine Sight"
~Cannot be unequipped during a QP/FP/Event fight.

~ +3% all damage, +5% velocity during the entire QP/FP/Event fight.
~ -10% Sensor Range during the entire QP/FP/Event fight.

d) Endgame Career Skill #3: "Enhanced ECM"
~Cannot be unequipped during a QP/FP/Event fight.
~Enhanced ECM affect target/victim's sensor -10% Range
~Your own mech +3% heat dissipation (ie: runs HOTTER, cools down slower)


(2) Achieving >75% of Consumable Nodes:
---------------------------------------------------------
a) Endgame Career Skill #1: "Lucky Charm"
~Activating a consumable gives 50% chance of +50% bonus effect of that consumable!

b ) Endgame Career Skill #2: "Long Range Relationship"
~Activating a consumable gives 50% chance of +50% range effect of that consumable!

c) Endgame Career Skill #3: "Nocturnal Life"
~Activating a consumable gives 50% chance of activating 200m Seismic Sensor effect while mech moving !

(3) Other Career skills based on the more revamped complex Skill Trees
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
~It's up to your imagination!

Edited by w0qj, 07 April 2022 - 10:02 AM.

[minnowzzz]

w0qj, on 07 April 2022 - 10:01 AM, said:

Looks good!

How about a "Career" overlay (2nd layer) on top of these skill trees?
(similar to StarTrek Online does its skill trees):

For example:

(1) Achieving >75% of Sensors Nodes:
---------------------------------------------------
a) Endgame Career Skill #1: "Flanker"
~Hitting enemy from sides/behind gives +2% bonus all damage for 10 seconds

b ) Endgame Career Skill #2: "Tunnel Vision"
~Each successive hit on enemy reduces -5% enemy sensor range for 10 seconds, cumulative to -20% for 40 seconds.
~At the same time, each successive hit on enemy reduces your own damage -5% for 10 seconds, cumulative to -20% damage.

c) Endgame Career Skill #3: "Divine Sight"
~Cannot be unequipped during a QP/FP/Event fight.

~ +3% all damage, +5% velocity during the entire QP/FP/Event fight.
~ -10% Sensor Range during the entire QP/FP/Event fight.

d) Endgame Career Skill #3: "Enhanced ECM"
~Cannot be unequipped during a QP/FP/Event fight.
~Enhanced ECM affect target/victim's sensor -10% Range
~Your own mech +3% heat dissipation (ie: runs HOTTER, cools down slower)


(2) Achieving >75% of Consumable Nodes:
---------------------------------------------------------
a) Endgame Career Skill #1: "Lucky Charm"
~Activating a consumable gives 50% chance of +50% bonus effect of that consumable!

b ) Endgame Career Skill #2: "Long Range Relationship"
~Activating a consumable gives 50% chance of +50% range effect of that consumable!

c) Endgame Career Skill #3: "Nocturnal Life"
~Activating a consumable gives 50% chance of activating 200m Seismic Sensor effect while mech moving !

(3) Other Career skills based on the more revamped complex Skill Trees
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
~It's up to your imagination!

I very much Dislike this, Just a lot of skill bloat imo

[Lizardman from Hollywood]

Why are Seismic and ECM locked behind non relevant skills?

[PraetorGix]

A quick comment on the color codes thing: You made no mention about differentiating "factory" quirks and Skill tree quirks. PLEASE do not fail to put those in. The new organization is cool, but what I most wanted out of this new functionality is to be able to tell apart what I gave to the mech and what the mech already has from the start.

[minnowzzz]

Lizardman from Hollywood, on 07 April 2022 - 10:04 AM, said:

Why are Seismic and ECM locked behind non relevant skills?

They said in the video that The Cauldron wanted some nodes to still be locked behind other skills to increase the buy in for those nodes. Seismic, ECM, and speed skills are very powerful

Edited by minnowzzz, 07 April 2022 - 10:07 AM.

[ENOVA]

The Event queue could be HUGE. You guys just need a creative guy (or an army of loyal fans) to come up with ideas for events. TBH, PGI is not very creative team, in my opinion (or too scare to try things). At least they were (before sudden 8v8 testing)

Edited by ENOVA, 07 April 2022 - 10:11 AM.

[ENOVA]

Will Solaris stay? I would like to. Me and my unit practicing 1v1 there. A good place for training + earn some cash

[ghost1e]

seeing the no-refund is a little disappointing. imo there needs to either be a free reset, allowing the player to respec, or a refund.

with how it's looking rn, players with a lot of mechs, but still in the grind, will have to probably pay an extra ~30-40% for their skils, or about 800k CB / 17k XP per mech. for someone with lets say 100 mechs (which is reasonable for someone not having "beaten the grind" yet) this'd mean a straight 80mil CB setback.

it's not just the new players or the space-rich we should look at imo

[Goedmaker]

The skill tree looks a lot much better and organized, though it's going to be annoying having to go back over all of my skilled mechs. Going forward it will be a nice improvement though for myself and new players.

[WarmasterRaptor]

Question!

Well, first, glad to see the color coding of Quirks+Skills done and the Skill Tree finally seeing some attention, thank you for that,

Now, what I'm curious about : is there some sort of internal tracking possible for PGI to know which skills are the "most popular/used" VS the "least popular/used" ones?

If that exists, especially with the new tree, that could help to further re-balance some nodes, making them more desirable instead of automatically ignored,

Thank you for your answer in advance,
Cheers,

[KishPrime]

There is a lot of good stuff in this skill tree rework, but there are two big caveats. I'm fine with no refunds, but as already noted, each individual mech should get a one-time free reset button to repopulate the nodes. This is absolutely gonna kill anyone with more than 30 mechs otherwise (and I'm sitting on 200). The second is that I hope it costs more than 1 point as the trees get near the bottom, otherwise this has some really large game-wide implications for balance if it just turns into an even higher level of min-maxing than is already possible.

[Mighty Spike]

PraetorGix, on 07 April 2022 - 10:05 AM, said:

A quick comment on the color codes thing: You made no mention about differentiating "factory" quirks and Skill tree quirks. PLEASE do not fail to put those in. The new organization is cool, but what I most wanted out of this new functionality is to be able to tell apart what I gave to the mech and what the mech already has from the start.

yep this
Oh look they discovered different colours^^...Is it so damn hard to get it that we want to see the Quirks the Mech comes with after skilling it without going in the ingame store to take a look on the Factory quirks???
What da f## are helping different colours if i still cant see the Quirks on the first look the Mech comes with after skilling it.
PGI why doing it easy when we can do it so much more complicated that the few players left here have a reason to say forever goodbye..
Make a damn window "Factory QUIRKS" make it red blue purple mixed or whatever if you want but make a damn Window "Mech´s Factory Quirks",write the quirks in that window and voila DONE
cause THATS what the people want since a few years and no damn colours..Jeez really really hard the whole thing to get it
sorry but I dont get it that a few guys need years and still dont get the simplest things people want

Edited by Mighty Spike, 07 April 2022 - 10:41 AM.

[Bakey]

TheUltimateGhost, on 07 April 2022 - 10:13 AM, said:

seeing the no-refund is a little disappointing. imo there needs to either be a free reset, allowing the player to respec, or a refund.

with how it's looking rn, players with a lot of mechs, but still in the grind, will have to probably pay an extra ~30-40% for their skils, or about 800k CB / 17k XP per mech. for someone with lets say 100 mechs (which is reasonable for someone not having "beaten the grind" yet) this'd mean a straight 80mil CB setback.

it's not just the new players or the space-rich we should look at imo

I'd like to second this POV. Short term I'm going to have to spend more money "fixing" skill trees on mechs I used to be done with. That's a net CBill sink for me, even with the nodes being cheaper.

[WarmasterRaptor]

PraetorGix, on 07 April 2022 - 10:05 AM, said:

A quick comment on the color codes thing: You made no mention about differentiating "factory" quirks and Skill tree quirks. PLEASE do not fail to put those in. The new organization is cool, but what I most wanted out of this new functionality is to be able to tell apart what I gave to the mech and what the mech already has from the start.

I second this, while it's true that while getting them color-coded is already great, differentiating between 'mech Quirks and then bought Skills would be even better.

[mytilus edulis]

minnowzzz, on 07 April 2022 - 10:01 AM, said:

The issue with the amount of nodes is 1) the amount of clicking and 2) the cost of getting all of the nodes. and they have worked to help those issues without making everyone re-skill their mechs. by Reducing the amount of clicks, money and XP needed to fully skill the mechs they reduced the impact of having so many nodes.

They could've doubled the impact of each node and just reduced the number by half.

You still need to click just as much with the new system. The grind is irritating but not nearly as irritating as clicking through pointless menus ~30x per mech.

Also, this new change likely means 800K cbills per currently owned mech to respec to optimal once the changes go through. So it's not actually a grind reduction...

800K cbills * 283 for me anyways is 226,400,000 cbills or about 114 hours of grinding. So maybe in 3 months I'll get it done. Sweet...

Edited by mytilus edulis, 07 April 2022 - 10:49 AM.

[minnowzzz]

mytilus edulis, on 07 April 2022 - 10:46 AM, said:

They could've doubled the impact of each node and just reduced the number by half.

You still need to click just as much with the new system. The grind is irritating but not nearly as irritating as clicking through pointless menus ~30x per mech.

Also, this new change likely means 800K cbills per currently owned mech to respec to optimal once the changes go through. So it's not actually a grind reduction...

If they reduced the amount of nodes by half, they would have needed to refund everyone and make everyone reskill possibly 100s of mechs.

Additionally, the amount of clicking did go down, as seen in the video any nodes you click on will automatically select any nodes needed to get to that node, by clicking on node cooldown 7, the game will automatically spec points into cooldown 1 to 6 as well, saving six clicks on that part alone.

[SniperFury]

Beadhanger, on 07 April 2022 - 09:08 AM, said:

Pls don´t tell me you removed solaris for the event Q....

The game mode was dead, however this does allow them to have special Solaris like events.