191 replies to this topic

[Voice of Kerensky]

1) Sorry for the question, maybe it was said in the dev log, but the language barrier does not allow me to fully understand the spoken language.
The question is: did I understand correctly that skill nodes that are activated on already pumped mechs will simply be exported to the new skill tree in the same amount?
2) Are you returning the UAC Jam Chance in skill tree??? Not the Jam Duration, but the Jam Chance???
In general, the new skill tree looks very interesting. Thank you!
The event queue for me at this stage looks completely incomprehensible. I will get acquainted her and study her when she is introduced into the game.
Thanks for the news! Hope for a better future for our beloved game MWO.

P.S. Most recently, I have been pumping over hundreds of mechs in a row, one after the other. What a pity that at that time the cost of pumping mech was not reduced)))

[killkimno]

Good to see new feature!

and plz don't reset already applied skill tree.
if skill tree reset i have to re setting at least 500 mech

[Voice of Kerensky]

Pay your attention. In the above screenshots of the new skill tree, the operations branch is missing. I would glad to estimate it too.

[FupDup]

Voice of Kerensky, on 07 April 2022 - 05:40 PM, said:

Pay your attention. In the above screenshots of the new skill tree, the operations branch is missing. I would glad to estimate it too.

The top tabs still have an operations tab, and you can see the corners of heat containment and hill climb along the left side of this screenshot:

Edited by FupDup, 07 April 2022 - 05:45 PM.

[King Elias I]

I'm open to changes and very grateful that you're still putting work into the game to keep it fresh.

Adding quality of life things to the game is always welcome and makes it more practical.

Here are my thoughts on the subject


Adding the colors makes it much prettier to look at and quicker to grasp.

In any case, the respective quirks for the weapon type classes etc. should be correctly staggered in the overview. So that these would be visibly better ordered.

Also, personally, I'd particularly like to see the mech-specific quirks grouped and sorted, but separate from the additional added buffs that would come out of the individual talent tree.



The talent tree reorganization looks good so far, but it's nothing earth-shattering. Which I guess isn't wrong in itself.
From this point of view, everything stays the same, which is of course good for balancing and usually does not require any major adjustments.

I don't want to lean too far out of the window now, but I would have liked a graphic adjustment, for example in the size and the subcategories.



the information about the event queue sounded exciting and promising. Will definitely offer some variety.


Oh, a "trifle" on the side.
Is there a way to push the queue window to the background while queuing so we can continue browsing the mechlab?

[Lionheart2012]

Beadhanger, on 07 April 2022 - 09:08 AM, said:

Pls don´t tell me you removed solaris for the event Q....

No one was playing Solaris.

[Lionheart2012]

Tarogato, on 07 April 2022 - 09:57 AM, said:

REDUCE THE NUMBER OF NODES.



"One of the key reasons we wanted to keep the exact same number of nodes is we didn't want to create a process of us refunding, doing some form of conversion on XP and Skills, and everybody having to go back and reskill mechs."

No.

I understand why you don't want to do it. It's a fair reason.

But the main complaint about the Skill Tree ALWAYS has been that it has too many nodes. Addressing THAT problem first should be the #1 primary goal here. If you're only going to half-rework the skill tree like this proposal, than I'd rather you not touch it at all. Rip the bandaid off, you're going to have to yank some hairs to do this properly. It needs fixed, not tickled.

I disagree whole-heartedly. The main complaint has been the grind and the number of clicks, not that the tree has too many nodes. They will reduce the grind by reducing XP and C-bills by about 40%. They will reduce the number of clicks by selecting to your preferred level of a certain attribute. However, a benefit is the ability to fine tune with smaller increases.

[Lionheart2012]

mytilus edulis, on 07 April 2022 - 10:46 AM, said:

They could've doubled the impact of each node and just reduced the number by half.

You still need to click just as much with the new system. The grind is irritating but not nearly as irritating as clicking through pointless menus ~30x per mech.

Also, this new change likely means 800K cbills per currently owned mech to respec to optimal once the changes go through. So it's not actually a grind reduction...

800K cbills * 283 for me anyways is 226,400,000 cbills or about 114 hours of grinding. So maybe in 3 months I'll get it done. Sweet...

You will have fewer clicks by selecting to the level of armor hardening you want. 800K Cbills? That assumes we need to change 1/3 of our skills. There aren't that many shock absorbance, hill climb or sensor range nodes in any of the trees.

Edited by Lionheart2012, 07 April 2022 - 08:26 PM.

[Lionheart2012]

So I have seen the Devlog and I have reviewed the screenshots. I agree with the sentiment that more powerful nodes should be more difficult to obtain. However, speed tweak never required all of the acceleration nodes prior to obtaining them, and you would want to balance acceleration with deceleration to ensure you could stop at that corner appropriately. I think it would be better to split speed tweak between the acceleration and deceleration trees, and likely off the 3rd and fourth nodes of those trees.

Further, I think that radar deprivation being so difficult to obtain, while target decay is so easy, will lead to the next lurmaggedon. And I know the veteran response, learn to find cover ("git gud scrub"), which is patronizing in the least. I am a veteran, and I do know how to find cover, but target decay will neutralize that cover for a certain amount of time. This is why radar deprivation is a necessary counter. However, I also understand the balance in ensuring that missile weapons need some viability. The old system seemed to have reasonable viability where most could get 60% radar deprivation and investing only 1 sensor range node. But if you wanted 100% radar deprivation, then you would need to invest in another 3 sensor range nodes. I would propose updating the sensor tree as follows:

[Kano111]

Event idea: "Knock Down the Damn Trees in Emerald Vale"

Rules:

• Timer is set to 5mins
  
• Only mechs that travel maximum 48kph
  
• Team with most destroyed Damn Trees wins

[mytilus edulis]

Lionheart2012, on 07 April 2022 - 07:18 PM, said:

I disagree whole-heartedly. The main complaint has been the grind and the number of clicks, not that the tree has too many nodes. They will reduce the grind by reducing XP and C-bills by about 40%. They will reduce the number of clicks by selecting to your preferred level of a certain attribute. However, a benefit is the ability to fine tune with smaller increases.

Lionheart2012, on 07 April 2022 - 07:32 PM, said:

You will have fewer clicks by selecting to the level of armor hardening you want. 800K Cbills? That assumes we need to change 1/3 of our skills. There aren't that many shock absorbance, hill climb or sensor range nodes in any of the trees.

Clicking the individual nodes is whatever. You can get around that with kitlaan

It's the

*click 1*

Mechlab

*click 2*

Skills

*click 3*

Add SP

*click 4*

Purchase skill points / Use available

*click 5*

buggy slider that doesn't always match up with the total indicated that you are purchasing

*clicks 6,7,8*

fine adjustment of buggy slider with +/- buttons

*click 9*

OK

*click 10*

Are you sure you want to purchase Mech Skill Points?

*click 11+*

nodes

*click 12+*

Apply changes

*click 13+*

Are you sure you want to purchase these skills?



13+ clicks (realistically more like 15-18) between matches for like a 1.5% performance difference is the annoying part

Edited by mytilus edulis, 07 April 2022 - 08:52 PM.

[martian]

Kano111, on 07 April 2022 - 08:22 PM, said:

Event idea: "Knock Down the Damn Trees in Emerald Vale"

Rules:

• Timer is set to 5mins
  
• Only mechs that travel maximum 48kph
  
• Team with most destroyed Damn Trees wins

Hardmode: Only stock UrbanMech and Annihilator allowed.

[Agyar30]

I had to think about this one before posting anything. It is a change in the good direction. However you have one big miss conception. After this change you are saying all our mechs will perform as they perform today, so we are good. They perform this way today because this is the best performance we can get. After this change the same performance will be an inferior setup on most mechs, which means we need to partially respec many mechs anyway. That is how gamers work. For me it is okay i can reskill, but still it will be painful gsp wise. I hope players won't be angry after they realize this. It happened once with the skill tree changes. Maybe you can run gsp reward events after the change, but well i am not sure how this will play out at he end in the community. I am happy to see that nodes are cheaper it really helps for new players.

[minnowzzz]

Agent Super Chicken, on 07 April 2022 - 03:39 PM, said:

Event Modes:
For new players, huge barrier to entry if they don't have 150 mechs and can't optimally participate - will you give advance warning of upcoming events so people can shop the sales a couple weeks before and start saving up/skill up?
If it were announced that AS7 was the mech for the event, the newbies would need time to save up, a sale to buy it and engine and some of the heavier weapons, and then more time after that to get skill points up, prior to the event.

In a podcast with NGNG, I think they said with any events that needs certain mechs to play, their will always be a trial mech available that meets the requirements, so if Urbiedurby is the current event, Matt will make sure a Urban Mech is a trial mech.

Edited by minnowzzz, 08 April 2022 - 05:00 AM.

[Sylow]

I actually think that the skill tree rework is missing some important points. The most important ones:

1. It still shoehorns you into some builds.
2. It still has way too many nodes and thus, even if the clickfest is a bit reduced, looks very much "complex for the sake of complexity".

First my look into point 1:
When i look into my techical readouts, i see mechs which use a whole variety of weapons. Just look at the Atlas, Victor, Zeus, Highlander, Orion... or go down to Centurion, Wolverine, Shadowhawk. They carry energy weapons, missiles and ballistic weapons. And each of them matters, unlike in boat warrior online, where you just boost one of your weapon types and usually get rid of the others.

We have that since years: Bring just a few weapons and get the perks for them. A mix and match inherently, by needing more nodes, puts you at a disadvantage. (Mind you, this is by far not the only reason for boats. Simplicity of use is one other thing, which really can't be fixed, but at least i think the skillpoints should not push people further into this direction. )

Thus i would actually suggest to put projectile velocity into the range tree. And stuff like missile racks, missile spread, laser duration, magazine capacity, LBX spread, etc. all just go into one "weapons operation" branch. (Might also move NARC duration into that for good measure. ) So if you boat, you pick those points to boost your weapon of choice and simply loose the rest. (Nothing lost, you merely get free additional things which you don't use. ) If you run a more diverse weapon setup (as unlikely as that still is), you get advantages for all of them. So at least the skill system does not punish you for using a more traditional setup.


2. The "auto-fill in a branch" is quite an improvement on the number of clicks, but why not simplify it further?

People look at this skill tree and feel kind of like in Path of Exile: "soooo much filler".

Just look at the "cooldown" branch: you can spend 16 points for a 0.6 modifier each. Why not cut it down to two nodes which provide a 5% improvement each? If the player does not have 91 skillpoints (whoever came up with that number), but can just has a total of 10 points to spread over everything, it will make the system a lot more accessible, as it will reduce the visual burden and give people a noticeable effect for every skillpoint spent.

In the move of condensing things i think it would also then make sense to just merge the jump jets path into mobility. (How many people actually have even one skillpoint in jump jets on even one of their mechs? ) Some more of such condensation could be done.

For example Sensors could just have two "offensive" and two "defensive" branches of two tiers either. The offensive ones next to range would give zoom, target decay, retention and info gathering. The defensive branch would also bring range and add radar deprivation, and seismic sensors. The two ECM enhancements would be in the second node of each branch, so to get full ECM effect, you'd have to spend four skillpoints. (As mentioned: of a total of 10. )

And yes, i know that the offensive thing is packed with more goodies than the defensive one. But considering the value of radar deprivation, i think this is fair.

I know that this is just a pipe dream, but considering how many people i saw leave because they just could not accept the clickfest of the reworked skill tree, cutting it down to size should really be a massive improvement.

Edited by Sylow, 08 April 2022 - 01:22 AM.

[Clay Endfield]

Yeah, I'd prefer a refund. And I say that with a current inventory of 211 variously skilled mechs. You guys simplified the click system and organized the nodes. It'll take all of 2 minutes to max the desired lanes and save the setup. Then the next time you pull up an old laser boat that lost all its skills, hit 'load'; 'buy'; 'save'. 5 seconds per laser boat thereafter. After that, rinse and repeat the process with ballistic, missile, and hybrid builds.

This BS about not wanting to redistribute points is nonsensical; carrying through means is that we're gonna have to grind out more C-Bills and XP to get our mechs back up to competitive spec.

I would rather 'click out' and 'save/load' 1000 builds before committing to the XP C-Bill grind AGAIN.

[Buenaventura]

minnowzzz, on 07 April 2022 - 10:50 AM, said:

If they reduced the amount of nodes by half, they would have needed to refund everyone and make everyone reskill possibly 100s of mechs.

While it may not make *you* want to reskill your mechs - you definately should if it is a mech you're going to use again.
Just think of the points in "shock absorption" or "hill climb" you took in order to get more armour and heat containment/cool run on a mech equipped with jump jets that you could use for something else, maybe even mroe armour and/or heat containment/cool run.
That laser node you got for a ppc boat or dakka mech, just to get max velocity? You can use it for something else now, and you should if you don't have any lasers on that mech!
All those range nodes that got your HMG boat a whopping 5m more range? The cooldown and heat nodes along the way to the actually wanted "more ammo" on the same mech?

I'm just tier 4, but at least for the mechs I do intend on playing again, I WILL reskill them.

[cazeral]

OK.

I get the "no refund" aspect, not happy about the third round of asset stripping (modules - skill tree - skill tree) though in reality being another kick in the teeth for long term players.

However, an I may have missed this, what happens to the skill points bought but are inactive, i.e. 105/91, what happens to the 14 not in service? Will they be ported over to fill the blanks they previously filled?

Ideally it should have been a skill point reset, however, logic never appears to be a strong point atm.

With the "Events" mode, I do hope they do not discriminate by applying mode specific ones that have already been shown to cause grief and alienation of significant numbers of the game's population.

However, as I have done in the past, I am not holding my breath, but will simply see how these changes succeed or fail, but look forward to being told by PGI that regardless, it worked brilliantly . . . . .

[vonJerg]

This all looks nice and dandy for us, players. But I do not see where is monetization part for PGI in here.

IMHO the old "rule of 3 skills" was financially better option for PGI, at least it was encouraging players to buy mech packs(3 or more mechs bundles) in order to be able to skill the good ones.

[TheCaptainJZ]

vonJerg, on 08 April 2022 - 03:43 AM, said:

This all looks nice and dandy for us, players. But I do not see where is monetization part for PGI in here.

IMHO the old "rule of 3 skills" was financially better option for PGI, at least it was encouraging players to buy mech packs(3 or more mechs bundles) in order to be able to skill the good ones.

By making the game more fun to players, old and new, it is hoped that people will buy something in support of the changes. This is a bit of a paradigm shift for PGI from the past, but the right approach for today.