81 replies to this topic

[martian]

Curccu, on 13 April 2022 - 03:50 AM, said:

Effective yes but no more effective than blackjack-1( or dc) with 2xAC2 which actually out DPSs even old hyperquirked GI

"Grid Iron" fired 15-point Gauss Rifle shots, so in this sense it was "better" than 2-point AC rounds from the Blackjack..

Curccu, on 13 April 2022 - 03:50 AM, said:

I would say a Year ago is rare mech to see nowdays.

yes same, I play what I like to play even if it's stupid sometimes or else I wouldn't run MRM40 Huginn and other stuff like that.

"Quarantine", "Ares", "Grid Iron", etc. - whatever I have fun using.

[TheCaptainJZ]

Curccu, on 12 April 2022 - 10:10 PM, said:

...Ilya ...

I bought this a long time ago and have had a hard time ever getting it to work well. The mounts on the arms are so low you have to fully expose yourself to shoot. The fact of the matter is, it's been outclassed since those early days by dozens of other mechs with better hardpoint locations that can now do the same job or better.

[pbiggz]

martian, on 13 April 2022 - 06:50 AM, said:

Please tell me, what thing, that I have posted, is factually incorrect?

Perhaps im misunderstanding you, but to be clear, its ok for you to be having fun with the new mechs, and its ok for us to be wondering how older hyperquirking could be used to bring older mechs to a more fun place. Do you disagree with that?

[Curccu]

martian, on 13 April 2022 - 03:54 AM, said:

"Grid Iron" fired 15-point Gauss Rifle shots, so in this sense it was "better" than 2-point AC rounds from the Blackjack..

In sense of having 15 pinpoint vs 4 pinpoint and being a lower heat it is better, having charge and having lower dps it's worse so.
But overall my point was not OP not even really strong. So I don't really see why it couldn't still have those quirks.

PS. try heavy gauss 4G, it's pretty fun.

[ScrapIron Prime]

Curccu, on 13 April 2022 - 07:12 AM, said:

In sense of having 15 pinpoint vs 4 pinpoint and being a lower heat it is better, having charge and having lower dps it's worse so.
But overall my point was not OP not even really strong. So I don't really see why it couldn't still have those quirks.

PS. try heavy gauss 4G, it's pretty fun.

Fair point. If you give a Hunchie a rapid fire 15 point gun, that's not going to out-compete a Fafnir and will, in fact, put it about on par with a Centurion with a rapid fire 10 point gun.

The only thing PGI might be concerned about is making Hero mechs obviously superior. While they would sell better, that comes closer to the "pay to play" line that they have always scrupulously avoided. (And good on them for that!)

Edited by ScrapIron Prime, 13 April 2022 - 07:17 AM.

[martian]

Curccu, on 13 April 2022 - 07:12 AM, said:

In sense of having 15 pinpoint vs 4 pinpoint and being a lower heat it is better, having charge and having lower dps it's worse so.
But overall my point was not OP not even really strong. So I don't really see why it couldn't still have those quirks.

Dunno. The current ranged meta is quite strong, so I am not sure that reinforcing it with just another Gauss Rifle sniper chassis is the thing that the MWO gameplay needs.

Curccu, on 13 April 2022 - 07:12 AM, said:

PS. try heavy gauss 4G, it's pretty fun.

[Curccu]

ScrapIron Prime, on 13 April 2022 - 07:16 AM, said:

The only thing PGI might be concerned about is making Hero mechs obviously superior. While they would sell better, that comes closer to the "pay to play" line that they have always scrupulously avoided. (And good on them for that!)

Hero or not we have had Stalker-7D behind paywall which is superior to any other mid range laser vomit mech IS mech.
and other new released stuff is also better than anything that same chassis has been able to do before...

at this point of this games lifespan I really don't care if there are some minor pay to win mechs behind paywall, at this point get that money where you can to keep servers up

[Curccu]

TheCaptainJZ, on 13 April 2022 - 06:36 AM, said:

I bought this a long time ago and have had a hard time ever getting it to work well. The mounts on the arms are so low you have to fully expose yourself to shoot. The fact of the matter is, it's been outclassed since those early days by dozens of other mechs with better hardpoint locations that can now do the same job or better.

Haven't played this for a while but this is pretty good ctf-im Go XL if you dare or AC10s and XL

I think that is only triple AC/LBX 10 heavy IS chassis ofc Victor is better but that is assaults so they usually are.

[TheCaptainJZ]

Curccu, on 13 April 2022 - 07:35 AM, said:

Haven't played this for a while but this is pretty good ctf-im Go XL if you dare or AC10s and XL

I think that is only triple AC/LBX 10 heavy IS chassis ofc Victor is better but that is assaults so they usually are.

The energy mounts are high in the torsos so I think that might be how I last used it.

[Weeny Machine]

martian, on 13 April 2022 - 07:18 AM, said:

Dunno. The current ranged meta is quite strong, so I am not sure that reinforcing it with just another Gauss Rifle sniper chassis is the thing that the MWO gameplay needs.

If you bring back the Huginn it would balance that because these mechs are prey for that mech type...also it would keep PIRs in check because it would be maneuverable enough with good sustained DPS to force PIRs to run off.
The same goes for the Oxide or Dragon N (for the latter PIRs excluded)

Edited by Weeny Machine, 13 April 2022 - 07:53 AM.

[ScrapIron Prime]

Curccu, on 13 April 2022 - 07:27 AM, said:

Hero or not we have had Stalker-7D behind paywall which is superior to any other mid range laser vomit mech IS mech.

It will be available for cBills soon. All their new packs are like this. Pay to get it early, but eventually everyone can have it.

[w0qj]

Good news! Stalker STK-7D available for CBills now!

[martian]

Weeny Machine, on 13 April 2022 - 07:49 AM, said:

If you bring back the Huginn it would balance that because these mechs are prey for that mech type...also it would keep PIRs in check because it would be maneuverable enough with good sustained DPS to force PIRs to run off.

I think that overquirking some 'Mech would lead to one result: The players would abuse that 'Mech as much as possible, until PGI would remove such quirks. After all, we have seen it with some overquirked 'Mechs.

[Weeny Machine]

martian, on 13 April 2022 - 08:03 AM, said:

I think that overquirking some 'Mech would lead to one result: The players would abuse that 'Mech as much as possible, until PGI would remove such quirks. After all, we have seen it with some overquirked 'Mechs.

I agree but you can "abuse" something only if it is op or can be made op. As it was said before, these mechs wouldn't be op but unique nowdays (Thunderbolts excluded from what I read)- especially the Huginn and Oxide since the got larger during re-sizing.

w0qj, on 13 April 2022 - 07:55 AM, said:

Good news! Stalker STK-7D available for CBills now!

I am not really into assaults

Edited by Weeny Machine, 13 April 2022 - 09:25 AM.

[Curccu]

ScrapIron Prime, on 13 April 2022 - 07:50 AM, said:

It will be available for cBills soon. All their new packs are like this. Pay to get it early, but eventually everyone can have it.

Same with heromechs in this game, PGI dishes out huge amount of MC each Year.

w0qj, on 13 April 2022 - 07:55 AM, said:

Good news! Stalker STK-7D available for CBills now!

I know I have had it for few months, few of them actually for FP.

[Curccu]

martian, on 13 April 2022 - 08:03 AM, said:

I think that overquirking some 'Mech would lead to one result: The players would abuse that 'Mech as much as possible, until PGI would remove such quirks. After all, we have seen it with some overquirked 'Mechs.

Overquirked yes, hyperquirked IMO is different case. Some mechs could have insane quirks and they still wouldn't be OP because limitations they have in hardpoint locations/amounts or just mech geometry. Mech that is good and is played is better than totally obsolete mech that no one playes.

[pbiggz]

martian, on 13 April 2022 - 08:03 AM, said:

I think that overquirking some 'Mech would lead to one result: The players would abuse that 'Mech as much as possible, until PGI would remove such quirks. After all, we have seen it with some overquirked 'Mechs.

Nobody is asking to overquirk, they're asking for specific hyperquirks. Stop moving the goalposts.

[Weeny Machine]

Curccu, on 13 April 2022 - 09:31 AM, said:

Overquirked yes, hyperquirked IMO is different case. Some mechs could have insane quirks and they still wouldn't be OP because limitations they have in hardpoint locations/amounts or just mech geometry. Mech that is good and is played is better than totally obsolete mech that no one playes.

Exactly this. Unique mechs which are (somewhat) played again - instead of being completely dead. The game can only profit from that imo

[martian]

Curccu, on 13 April 2022 - 09:31 AM, said:

Overquirked yes, hyperquirked IMO is different case.

"Overquirked" or "hyperquirked" ... really , that's just semantics.

Curccu, on 13 April 2022 - 09:31 AM, said:

Some mechs could have insane quirks and they still wouldn't be OP because limitations they have in hardpoint locations/amounts or just mech geometry. Mech that is good and is played is better than totally obsolete mech that no one playes.

I would agree with your last sentence, however ...

... In my opinion if somebody really wants to see the greater variety of used 'Mechs in MWO, then he should stop pushing two or three 'Mech variants that he is enamored in and think about the 'Mech use in MWO from the wider perspective. There are so many 'Mech that I see in the game only rarely: Cataphract (especially CTF-1X, -2X, -4X), Champion, Dragon, Orion, Quickdraw, Kintaro, Vindicator, etc.

So many barely used 'Mechs ....

I think that it would be better for MWO to work on some complex solution instead of pushing just somebody's favorite unbalanced 'Mech variant while completely ignoring the rest.

[pbiggz]

martian, on 13 April 2022 - 10:18 AM, said:

"Overquirked" or "hyperquirked" ... really , that's just semantics.

No it isn't. If you think it is you arent understanding what people are talking about here. The old thunderbolts, those were overquirked. They easily overperformed, they were already pretty strong baseline mechs but the quirks made them basically untouchable. There was no reason to run anything else. Thats bad, we're not asking for that.
A dragon 1n with the autocannon quirks, those were hyperquirked. By no meaningful standard was a huginn, or an oxide, or a dragon 1n actually overpowered, but the quirks allowed for a few novel, fun builds to be run. Thats what is being asked for in this thread. Dont get it twisted.

martian, on 13 April 2022 - 10:18 AM, said:

I would agree with your last sentence, however ...

... In my opinion if somebody really wants to see the greater variety of used 'Mechs in MWO, then he should stop pushing two or three 'Mech variants that he is enamored in and think about the 'Mech use in MWO from the wider perspective. There are so many 'Mech that I see in the game only rarely: Cataphract (especially CTF-1X, -2X, -4X), Champion, Dragon, Orion, Quickdraw, Kintaro, Vindicator, etc.

The reason you never see them is because they suck. Their drawbacks outweigh their usefulness. Adding novel quirks to underused variants is a very good way to bring some of them up to a more fun level of play. That doesn't mean making them meta-gods, that just means allowing them to be built in a way that is entertaining. An excellent example of that again is the Dragon 1N, which is basically never used right now. The autocannon quirk allowed it to run the double AC5 dakka arm. It was a high-risk high-reward build. You could fire it like a mad man, but if you lost the arm, you were gimped. It was never a competitive build, but you saw it alot in quick play and even faction play because it was fun, did good damage, and performed relatively well. Those are the kinds of quirks we should be exploring. Nobody is asking for the ERPPC or Medium Pulse Laser thunderbolt. Those arent that interesting, and they quickly dominated the meta, and for good reason. Nobody in good faith asks for those mechs.

martian, on 13 April 2022 - 10:18 AM, said:

So many barely used 'Mechs ....

I think that it would be better for MWO to work on some complex solution instead of pushing just somebody's favorite unbalanced 'Mech variant while completely ignoring the rest.

Hyperquirking is exactly the solution you're suggesting. Nobody is asking for their pet mechs to get buffed exclusively.