28 replies to this topic

[Zeddicuus]

I've been tinkering with a Catapult (Seeing what the IS has for mechs, though I personally lean toward the Clans myself)

The Catapult is proving pretty interesting. Armor feels a bit like tissue paper, but it can pack quite a few missile racks if you like that kinda gameplay. Obvious not a front line skirmisher, so it's a nice change of pace to the few other mechs I have so far.

Below is what I am running for a Catapult. It may not have as many LRMS as it should, but the SRMS make for a great defense and I've caught a few Assault mechs off-guard when they thought they would try to move closer than 180m to make my LRMS useless. Apparently a salvo of 20 SRM missiles can tear up armor pretty good!

https://mwo.nav-alph...db4c58_CPLT-A1C

I am hoping for confirmation about the Command Console. It states it speeds up the target lock, but I am not sure if it's actually helping or not as I tried the build without it and it seemed about the same.

Any opinions on my build and the favoured builds of others are welcome! Thank you!

Edited by Zeddicuus, 13 April 2022 - 07:32 AM.

[KaptinOrk]

I would pick either SRMs or LRMs or split the difference with MRMs. In my experience, mixing them sounds good on paper and will probably work well on the tabletop, but it's harder to use in MWO.

I would probably do something like this for a Catapult: https://mwo.nav-alph...529542_CPLT-A1C

You could always go XL for speed or to pick up MRM 40s if you're feeling spicy: https://mwo.nav-alph...6a0f04_CPLT-A1C

Edited by KaptinOrk, 13 April 2022 - 07:47 AM.

[TheCaptainJZ]

MRMs is probably the best way to go, but you can't lock on and fire over cover without LRMs. If you do decide to stick with mixing, I'd recommend LRM 15s and upping your SRM 4s to 6s. LRM15s take up one less crit, weigh less, and have less heat which you can reinvest in SRMs. Having all your SRMs the same means their cooldown time is the same. You can also experiment with adding Artemis (additional ton per missile system and requires buying different launchers, but enhances performance).
Command Console is probably never worth the weight. If I'm not mistaken, it speeds up targeting data not locks. That is, the enemy paperdoll. You want to take a BAP. If you had an energy mount, you'd also want to take TAG.

Edited by TheCaptainJZ, 13 April 2022 - 08:19 AM.

[Zeddicuus]

That build isn't too bad KaptinOrk. I tried the MRM setup and it worked pretty decent. The problem I had is that trying to get a bit closer or keep someone LOS to make the magic happen meant my tissue armor got ripped up pretty quick, haha. Unless I bought the wrong ones and there is one with a lock system on it?

I'm finding the lock on system works good on my old laptop when I play this game during breaks at work or when the kids are all on my PC and I don't want to be The Ogre and kick them off, haha

As to the Command Console, if it only speeds up targeting data, it's definitely not what I want. I'll remove that and plant a BAP in there instead.

I will definitely give the LRM15/SRM6/SRM6 per side a go as you suggest and see how it does. and I wish I had an energy mount for a tag!

Also, I am aware that running an XL Engine is not always a good thing due to the downside should I lose a side torso killing me. Given I'm not in the front line I'm finding its use for less weight preferable over heavier options for the moment.

Edited by Zeddicuus, 13 April 2022 - 08:32 AM.

[ScrapIron Prime]

Just remember that TARGET INFO is not the same as MISSILE LOCK. Missile lock is a function of Range to target divided by Max sensor range. So anything that increases your sensor range will make your locks a bit faster, but there's no magic "fast lock" equipment item.

The only real advantage a Command Console provides over an active probe or a target computer is that it STACKS with both and its only 1 crit slot.

[Zeddicuus]

Downgraded the LRM20's to LRM 15's, upgraded the SRM4's to SRM6's all around. Upgraded engine so my top speed is about 63kmph now instead of the previous 51kmph. Removed the Command Console and placed a BAP instead. Debating removing a ton of SRM ammo to fit a Targeting Computer MK1 to see if it helps at all.

Overall feel of it so far is pretty good. I can defend myself easily with the SRM's and they seem to catch opponents offguard when they charge at me and I am still blasting them. I'm guessing the majority of Catapults out there are LRMs only.

Definitely going to try to tweak this further to see if I can tune it even better, though only being a 65ton maximum is a bit of a limiting factor compared to most other Heavy class mechs. But I'm definitely liking the Catapult so far.

[martian]

Zeddicuus, on 14 April 2022 - 06:53 AM, said:

Downgraded the LRM20's to LRM 15's, upgraded the SRM4's to SRM6's all around. Upgraded engine so my top speed is about 63kmph now instead of the previous 51kmph. Removed the Command Console and placed a BAP instead. Debating removing a ton of SRM ammo to fit a Targeting Computer MK1 to see if it helps at all.

Overall feel of it so far is pretty good. I can defend myself easily with the SRM's and they seem to catch opponents offguard when they charge at me and I am still blasting them. I'm guessing the majority of Catapults out there are LRMs only.

Definitely going to try to tweak this further to see if I can tune it even better, though only being a 65ton maximum is a bit of a limiting factor compared to most other Heavy class mechs. But I'm definitely liking the Catapult so far.

Good that you used the larger engine. I think that 51 km/h was really too slow.

With BAP onboard, I would not use Targeting Computer.

[TheCaptainJZ]

I didn't realize you were running an XL engine. You should try to get at least a 250 LFE in there for durability, but your call. You can try dropping your SRMs to 4s. For ammo, you probably want 3 tons of SRM and 3 tons of LRM or so.

The main problem with a split build like this is your weapon ranges are completely split. There is no "optimum" range because either your SRMs are out of range, or your LRMs.

In any case, I am a fan of the Catapults. The K2 is very different, no missiles, but you can do a lot of different things with it. I also like the two Hero Catapults. The Jester is all energy, while the Butterbee is a supped up C4 variant (I think that's the designation--4 med lasers and 2 missile hardpoints). The Butterbee has 4 energy and 4 missile hardpoints.

[martian]

TheCaptainJZ, on 14 April 2022 - 07:48 AM, said:

The main problem with a split build like this is your weapon ranges are completely split. There is no "optimum" range because either your SRMs are out of range, or your LRMs.

Well, there is the range between 180m and 270m where both weapon ranges overlap. You are outside of the LRM minimum range and still within the SRM range.

TheCaptainJZ, on 14 April 2022 - 07:48 AM, said:

In any case, I am a fan of the Catapults. The K2 is very different, no missiles, but you can do a lot of different things with it. I also like the two Hero Catapults. The Jester is all energy, while the Butterbee is a supped up C4 variant (I think that's the designation--4 med lasers and 2 missile hardpoints). The Butterbee has 4 energy and 4 missile hardpoints.

Yeah, the Catapults were among the first 'Mechs that I bought.

[Zeddicuus]

TheCaptainJZ, on 14 April 2022 - 07:48 AM, said:

I didn't realize you were running an XL engine. You should try to get at least a 250 LFE in there for durability, but your call. You can try dropping your SRMs to 4s. For ammo, you probably want 3 tons of SRM and 3 tons of LRM or so.

The main problem with a split build like this is your weapon ranges are completely split. There is no "optimum" range because either your SRMs are out of range, or your LRMs.

In any case, I am a fan of the Catapults. The K2 is very different, no missiles, but you can do a lot of different things with it. I also like the two Hero Catapults. The Jester is all energy, while the Butterbee is a supped up C4 variant (I think that's the designation--4 med lasers and 2 missile hardpoints). The Butterbee has 4 energy and 4 missile hardpoints.

haha yeah. I got one from a Supply Cache so I've been running with it to see how I like the Mech overall. Been planning to save up for the Light Engine so I don't die quite so easily. The slightly lower weight is nice and all, but losing a side torso can really be a bummer for that match.


In the Mechlab I can fit an LE 245 if I lose the AMS, while keeping the current LRM15x2 SRM6x4 with LRM Ammo x4 SRM ammox2. This would keep my speed at 61km/h, the same as my XL engine. Not being in the front line, I think losing that should be fine so I can fit that LE instead.

As for the weapon ranges, there is a 'sweet spot' where both are completely usable so I can attempt to tear up anyone trying to close distance before the LRMS become nothing more than a decoration. Not ideal, but so far I'm liking it. I've invested as much into weapon range as I can, so the optimum range is more like 310m if I remember right.

Just gotta save up those C-Bills instead of tinkering with my other mechs and spending them all the time!

Really appreciating all the points and the tips, these are very helpful in improving my understanding of how to load out my mech!

Edited by Zeddicuus, 14 April 2022 - 10:48 AM.

[TheCaptainJZ]

Zeddicuus, on 14 April 2022 - 10:39 AM, said:

haha yeah. I got one from a Supply Cache so I've been running with it to see how I like the Mech overall. Been planning to save up for the Light Engine so I don't die quite so easily. The slightly lower weight is nice and all, but losing a side torso can really be a bummer for that match.


In the Mechlab I can fit an LE 245 if I lose the AMS, while keeping the current LRM15x2 SRM6x4 with LRM Ammo x4 SRM ammox2. This would keep my speed at 61km/h, the same as my XL engine. Not being in the front line, I think losing that should be fine so I can fit that LE instead.

As for the weapon ranges, there is a 'sweet spot' where both are completely usable so I can attempt to tear up anyone trying to close distance before the LRMS become nothing more than a decoration. Not ideal, but so far I'm liking it. I've invested as much into weapon range as I can, so the optimum range is more like 310m if I remember right.

Just gotta save up those C-Bills instead of tinkering with my other mechs and spending them all the time!

Really appreciating all the points and the tips, these are very helpful in improving my understanding of how to load out my mech!

Problem with the 245 engine is you have to add another heatsink. 250 is the break-even point. Below that, you have to add an additional heatsink for every 25 rating below that to make the minimum 10 heat sinks, so that's an additional ton to consider. You might be able to upgrade to Endosteel structure or light-ferro armor if you have the crits.
*Unless you have one in your build already.

martian, on 14 April 2022 - 08:12 AM, said:

Well, there is the range between 180m and 270m where both weapon ranges overlap. You are outside of the LRM minimum range and still within the SRM range.

Right. There is a small overlap.

martian, on 14 April 2022 - 08:12 AM, said:

Yeah, the Catapults were among the first 'Mechs that I bought.

My K2 is either the oldest mech I've continuously owned, or second oldest, and not sold and bought back.

Edited by TheCaptainJZ, 14 April 2022 - 12:14 PM.

[TheCaptainJZ]

I just realized you posted a link to your build. I tried some tweaks to it. https://mwo.nav-alph...319f0b_CPLT-A1C

[ScrapIron Prime]

TheCaptainJZ, on 14 April 2022 - 12:15 PM, said:

Right. There is a small overlap.

And that makes it tough to use both. At least with Medium Lasers you can fire past their optimal range and do 3-4 damage with each one. The SRMs just poof out at 270 (plus range quirks, which in this case is still under 300m... no quirks).

This makes your weapon loadout an either/or mix except for a VERY narrow range band that is extremely hard to control. So you have to pick... do you have 10 tons of SRM launchers and 20 tons of dead weight, or 20 tons of LRM launchers and 10 tons of dead weight? Sure, you can blip back and forth, but again its hard to use well.

The Cat that works best for LRMs in my opinion is the C1. 4 ER Medium Lasers augment the 2 LRM 20's, doing full damage at 400m and meaningful damage at 600m. Add a Beagle Probe in there to extend your sensnr range (which helps get missile lock a bit faster).

https://mwo.nav-alph...d1f4d30_CPLT-C1

Edited by ScrapIron Prime, 14 April 2022 - 02:24 PM.

[TheCaptainJZ]

Agreed.

[Zeddicuus]

Alright, given all the information here, I've managed to tweak accordingly:

https://mwo.nav-alph...06f53c_CPLT-A1C

Running SRM4 x4 now instead of SRM6 x4, Light Ferrous Armor, an Endosteel structure with a LE 285 engine I already owned. 4 tons LRM ammo and 2 tons of SRM. When I'm using this mech, I noticed I'm going more of a support role, trying to soften target and move into positions to maximize the area I can cover. The LE 285 should really help with mobility in that regard. Downgrading to SRM 4 seems to work out so far as I'm only using them for defense or, Gods forbid, I run out of LRM ammo and must take to the front line.

Unfortunately, I must have overlooked the one with the laser hardpoints or I would have gone with that one, but overall I've been finding a pure missile build to be pretty fun. Not something I use all the time as just locking from long range isn't as fun as the frontline, but it's a nice change of pace.

I will be trying out the build I linked above soon, hopefully and I can let you folks know how it went if you like. You've given a lot of good advice and I think this mech is on the right track to being a fun one to pilot for me.

[Gagis]

The +2 SRM HSL makes the A1 really sweet with an XL engine and 6SRM6 with Artemis. Its a bit of a glass cannon but if you pick 2 JJ you can do some absolutely devastating hit and run strikes. The range quirks combined with all range skill nodes also fits nicely with that.

[TheCaptainJZ]

I didn't realize it was given an HSL quirk. That would be pretty powerful.

[Zeddicuus]

Gotta admit running around with 6 srm 6 was pretty fun! I tried streak srm 6 instead but in-game mode Incursion I couldn't fire at their base which was weird.

So I saved two builds: the latest lrm/srm mix (my catapult only has missile mounts) and an srm only build.

Edited by Zeddicuus, 21 April 2022 - 09:05 AM.

[TheCaptainJZ]

Back in the day was the infamous "splatcat." 6 SRM-2s on chain fire. Missiles were bugged and did extra damage. ECM existed but only a couple mechs had it.

[Zeddicuus]

I might have to set that up just to take into the testing level hahahha. If I can have a missile gattling gun that could be entertaining!