26 replies to this topic

[feeWAIVER]

It's a shame more development time never went into weapon grouping.
I imagine most people don't use more than 3 weapons group.

It would have been nice to have an ingame macro to set weapons group 4 to fire weapons group 1, 2, and 3 in a chain fire.. While 5 could fire 1 and 2, and 6 could fire 1 and 3 in a chain or burst, whatever you select.. Or you could use two keys to fire 4 weapon groups in a chain fire.

I kinda feel a system like that would have played into that Energy Consumption project or whatever it was that never got off the ground.

But regardless, I feel like that could open up some cool possibilities in heat management, range management, firing patterns, etc. especially with mechs that have a lot of hard points, but even with 6 energy points, being able to chain fire 2 medium pulses with 1 button press would be nice.

Edited by feeWAIVER, 16 April 2022 - 08:48 PM.

[Saved By The Bell]

I use only 2 from ancient times.

Main group + support group.

[Ken Harkin]

More than three groups is generally counter productive for me although sometimes I set group 4 to be a chainfire of another group. Case in point, my Marauder BH2 has Group 1 2 SPPC, Group 2 4 ML, Group 3 AC20, Group 4 is 4 ML in chain fire. What you describe can be done with most programmable mice or game controllers.

[chaosshade2638]

I'm limited to four groups because the game won't pick up my mouse's other three buttons that are free. Group one is main group, group two is support group, group three is always missiles (except on non-missile builds) and group four is the heat management group where my weapons are set to chain fire so I can continue doing damage even while cooling off.

[LordNothing]

i rarely use group four. usually for something like a rocket launcher or narc. but in most cases 2 or 3 is enough.

i kind of wish i could set things like ripple and cycle delays. being able to chain fire lasers like 2 or 3 at a time or cycling through ac2s really fast. stuff you can do with macros, but actually part of the game and not some 3rd party software. mechwarrior 3 had some interesting mechanics. like if you unlock your arms, disable torso weapons in the group.

Edited by LordNothing, 17 April 2022 - 12:41 AM.

[CreativeAnarchy]

I'll use all 6, not always but I've very few mechs where I have 3 or less weapon groups.

Just depends upon what I'm running.

[ThreeStooges]

I use them when I use my heavy troll lrm builds for diffrent lrm groups. Other than that just 3 groups as I use a primitive two button mouse.

[FupDup]

The only time I use 4+ weapon groups is for splitting my weapons between sides, height, etc. So, for example a Rifleman with some lasers and dakka might have all lasers group 1, all dakka group 2, left side group 3, and right side group 4.

[C E Dwyer]

Only time I've used five groups was for fun, on stock builds years ago. to do that now is just, well it lacks sound thinking, with the fire power available now.

Only reason to use four is for what Fup has mentioned, our to add a chain fire on some builds to save pressing a second key, or for bad/fun builds.

Way the game works, magnified by how the skill tree works, it's best to limit the weapons type to as few as possible, and use heat discipline

[LordNothing]

CreativeAnarchy, on 17 April 2022 - 05:08 AM, said:

I'll use all 6, not always but I've very few mechs where I have 3 or less weapon groups.

Just depends upon what I'm running.

sometimes on mechs with say only 2 weapon groups, i go ahead and set up copies with chain fire enabled. or do left/right or torso/arms divisions of existing groups.

[CreativeAnarchy]

LordNothing, on 17 April 2022 - 04:40 PM, said:

sometimes on mechs with say only 2 weapon groups, i go ahead and set up copies with chain fire enabled. or do left/right or torso/arms divisions of existing groups.

That I what I use them for. I don't want them to go away.

[Mark Yore]

feeWAIVER, on 16 April 2022 - 08:30 PM, said:

It's a shame more development time never went into weapon grouping.
I imagine most people don't use more than 3 weapons group.

It would have been nice to have an ingame macro to set weapons group 4 to fire weapons group 1, 2, and 3 in a chain fire.. While 5 could fire 1 and 2, and 6 could fire 1 and 3 in a chain or burst, whatever you select.. Or you could use two keys to fire 4 weapon groups in a chain fire.

I kinda feel a system like that would have played into that Energy Consumption project or whatever it was that never got off the ground.

But regardless, I feel like that could open up some cool possibilities in heat management, range management, firing patterns, etc. especially with mechs that have a lot of hard points, but even with 6 energy points, being able to chain fire 2 medium pulses with 1 button press would be nice.

People have more than 1 fire button?

[DaZur]

Three groups...

Any more than this, I feel like I'm spending more time fumbling for buttons than I am on firing. Granted, I'm old(ish) and my dexterity is not what is used to be but yeah... "Three for me".

[Carlieth]

I tend to run 3 groups at most with the occasional 4 group. My RFL-IIC for example. 6xbx-2 1 is left arm 2 is right arm 3 and 3 fired. 3 and 4 is all of the guns both on chain fire.

I do this so if i get to a point i can sit and just spam fire at a cockpit are i will. 6 x LBX2 hitting cockpit area that fast leaves a lot of flash. Otherwise usually two or three groups. A friend of mine uses 6 with his joysticks and another with a razor mouse that has buttons on the side.

[RickySpanish]

I actually use five, but not at the same time. They are based on which button on my mouse or keyboard activates them. I usually assign them such that they map to the location they are firing from. Therefore I might have a 'Mech that uses weapon groups 2 and 4 because it only has right sided weapons, and 1 and 3 if it is left sided. The fifth weapon group is for weapons where the fire button is held down, so I assign that to left shift as it is relatively easy to reach and I can still perform other functions normally.

[Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie]

I'm sure I have several mechs with 4, but those are the exception.
3 is uncommon, and I usually have 1-2, depending on the mech ofc.
(often a 3rd for chainfire of ~something~ to fire when I must, while heatcapped.)

anytime I see somebody handling 5-6 weapon groups (or rather not handling them), it assures me that 'keeping it simple' is the right way to go - at least for me

[RockmachinE]

6 groups are enough to pretty much setup any realistic combination that you've mentioned. Anything else might make sense strictly mathematically, but not practically in terms of MWO. You want to maximize damage in a unit of time and work with heat and for that you simply don't need complex groupings like you suggest.

With heat neutral mechs you want to fire as much as you can at the same time, negating the need for complicated groups in the first place. Where heat is a consideration you want to fire as much as you can reliably and then sustain smaller damage or cool down, again not needing any complicated groups to begin with. Firing systems one or two at a time is impractical and suboptimal unless we are talking about the heavier weapons in game, which again does not need convoluted groups.

6 groups are enough to create any and all realistic and practical permutations you need. Anything else would either be extremely inefficient and useless or unnecessarily complicated and impractical. If you can't fit all your needs into 6 groups you're not doing something right.

In order to "combine" groupings or "chainfire" them just press two fire keys at once or add a little stagger between different fire buttons. You don't need one group to do this automatically for you. I mean it is an action game after all and adding a little rhythm to your key presses is part of the fun in the first place

I see what you're saying but it just doesn't fit into MWO, it would add a layer of complexity with no practical purpose.

Edited by Louis Brofist, 27 April 2022 - 04:11 AM.

[VeeOt Dragon]

for me i most often only have 1 and 2 though i have a few mechs that have 3 (i use group 4 for the third fire group since it is easiest to press on my mouse). more often than not my 3rd or 4th weapon group is the same as 1 or 2 just on chain fire. with the way i build my mechs i rarely need the chain fire but its nice to have.

i have a few mechs like my Nightstar that have R/L (1- LA RACs, 2- RA RACs, 3- MLs) but for the most part its just two big groups of weapons. even going as far as pairing LBX-10 with MRM (having the LBx on group 4 to fire when things get toasty).

i have never used more than 4 weapon groups in total though as my mouse only has the 4 buttons and a scroll wheel.

[feeWAIVER]

Louis Brofist, on 27 April 2022 - 04:02 AM, said:

6 groups are enough to pretty much setup any realistic combination that you've mentioned. Anything else might make sense strictly mathematically, but not practically in terms of MWO. You want to maximize damage in a unit of time and work with heat and for that you simply don't need complex groupings like you suggest.

With heat neutral mechs you want to fire as much as you can at the same time, negating the need for complicated groups in the first place. Where heat is a consideration you want to fire as much as you can reliably and then sustain smaller damage or cool down, again not needing any complicated groups to begin with. Firing systems one or two at a time is impractical and suboptimal unless we are talking about the heavier weapons in game, which again does not need convoluted groups.

6 groups are enough to create any and all realistic and practical permutations you need. Anything else would either be extremely inefficient and useless or unnecessarily complicated and impractical. If you can't fit all your needs into 6 groups you're not doing something right.

In order to "combine" groupings or "chainfire" them just press two fire keys at once or add a little stagger between different fire buttons. You don't need one group to do this automatically for you. I mean it is an action game after all and adding a little rhythm to your key presses is part of the fun in the first place

I see what you're saying but it just doesn't fit into MWO, it would add a layer of complexity with no practical purpose.

You miss the forest for the trees.
The point being that 6 weapon groups are too many- 99% of people will never use more than 3.
But with an in-game macro system, you could set up advanced chain fire options to ride the red line.

You say it doesn't fit MWO, a game were we pilot robots and install targeting computers.
If it fits any shooter, it's MWO.

[Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie]

feeWAIVER, on 27 April 2022 - 05:39 AM, said:

You miss the forest for the trees.
The point being that 6 weapon groups are too many- 99% of people will never use more than 3.
But with an in-game macro system, you could set up advanced chain fire options to ride the red line.

You say it doesn't fit MWO, a game were we pilot robots and install targeting computers.
If it fits any shooter, it's MWO.

not to sound snarky, but: ever thought about why "those evil 99%ers" say they don't need them, where people at the other end of the spectrum ask for them every few weeks/months?
maybe less IS more sometimes.

imHo (and going from what -I- do ingame) you're less likely to f*ck up your firing if you keep it simple. once you have several groups that CAN ghostheat together and things go hectic .. that's where "mistakes happen".
keeping it simple avoids that and keeps you alive in those situations.