158 replies to this topic

[TheArisen]

Have we talked about having a different color for Blazers & Bombast lasers yet? Could channel some Mace Windu with purple/violet or maybe a mint green? Violet would be hotter than blue/white from a couple things I've read.

[LordNothing]

i have a suspicion that laser colors are hardcoded. we couldnt even have different colors for micros or heavies.

[Weeny Machine]

I think the limiting factor, and a possible reason which speaks against new tech, is that the engine is Frankenstein's monster and they have no idea how to code really new things

I wonder if they consider to re-make MWO one day with a modern engine

Edited by Weeny Machine, 06 May 2022 - 12:08 PM.

[LordNothing]

Weeny Machine, on 06 May 2022 - 12:01 PM, said:

I wonder if they consider to re-make MWO one day with a modern engine

why, so they can underutilize it, forget how to program it, and then fail to update it?

Edited by LordNothing, 06 May 2022 - 02:56 PM.

[FupDup]

LordNothing, on 06 May 2022 - 11:28 AM, said:

i have a suspicion that laser colors are hardcoded. we couldnt even have different colors for micros or heavies.

They somehow managed to give Clan lasers different colors from IS ones, so I'm not sure about that.

[LordNothing]

FupDup, on 06 May 2022 - 03:13 PM, said:

They somehow managed to give Clan lasers different colors from IS ones, so I'm not sure about that.

yea but they also had a programmer at the time the clans came out.

actually i take that back. i was looking at the weapons.xml and noticed the beam effects were different. every laser had a unique beam material (the mtl files are just text). the textures referenced in the materials are grayscale. however there are a number of rgb values in there which set the laser color, lighting etc. i think what we have here is a case of copypasta. those hlls could be purple if pgi was inclined to change the numbers.

Edited by LordNothing, 06 May 2022 - 04:18 PM.

[Meep Meep]

Weeny Machine, on 29 April 2022 - 10:16 PM, said:

I doubt you will see any new tech because of the lack of ressources. Therefore any discussion is nice but relatively moot

Yeah hate to rain on the new tech parade but the odds of the devs committing the resources for it are slim at best. I mean we still have plenty of balance room on the existing set of weapons before we add even more into the mix. If it was just xml file changes then sure but this will take new art assets and ensuring every single mechs hardpoints that uses it will be positioned correctly. Iirc there are still some mechs with bugged weapon mounts.

[TheArisen]

LordNothing, on 06 May 2022 - 04:14 PM, said:

yea but they also had a programmer at the time the clans came out.

actually i take that back. i was looking at the weapons.xml and noticed the beam effects were different. every laser had a unique beam material (the mtl files are just text). the textures referenced in the materials are grayscale. however there are a number of rgb values in there which set the laser color, lighting etc. i think what we have here is a case of copypasta. those hlls could be purple if pgi was inclined to change the numbers.

Well it would be good to help differentiate what would essentially be XL lasers.

Meep Meep, on 06 May 2022 - 04:26 PM, said:

Yeah hate to rain on the new tech parade but the odds of the devs committing the resources for it are slim at best. I mean we still have plenty of balance room on the existing set of weapons before we add even more into the mix. If it was just xml file changes then sure but this will take new art assets and ensuring every single mechs hardpoints that uses it will be positioned correctly. Iirc there are still some mechs with bugged weapon mounts.

If the business can be made for it, they'll get the resources. New tech would certainly bring back a lot of players.

[Meep Meep]

TheArisen, on 06 May 2022 - 05:49 PM, said:

If the business can be made for it, they'll get the resources. New tech would certainly bring back a lot of players.

I'm certainly not against it. Just saying that its a pretty slim chance given that all they have authorized are either xml edits or new maps using existing art assets. The only reason we are getting any new mechs is that there still are enough whales swimming around to justify the cost. Maybe pitch it as xml changes that reuse existing art assess. Flip a double barrel ac asset 90 degrees and chance the colors around a bit and boom there is your blaser mount. Repeat on whatever else that can be fit in with xml changes and existing art assets.

[LordNothing]

new weapons are just xml edits. if they want to mess with weapon materials to make them look pretty thats not hard either. some interface bitmaps. all these are the kind of thing an artist can knock out hundreds of in a single work day, certainly less time than an entire map. unless they do retrofits then its model assets too. if you want new weapon mechanics there is probibly some code time, but looking at the available options you can do a few new mechanics with the xml alone, for example mech mortars can be done by tweaking the velocity and gravity parameter. i think the most time consuming part is the balance, fortunately we have a cauldron.

Edited by LordNothing, 06 May 2022 - 09:24 PM.

[Horseman]

TheArisen, on 06 May 2022 - 05:49 PM, said:

New tech would certainly bring back a lot of players.

Same as it did (not) last time?

[LordNothing]

Horseman, on 07 May 2022 - 12:01 PM, said:

Same as it did (not) last time?

i came back. i think id play more than just events if they did another one. i might even buy something like i did last time.

Edited by LordNothing, 07 May 2022 - 12:46 PM.

[Nesutizale]

First point I would like to say is "NEVER". PGI seams to fear to even poke at the topic with a 10m pole.

The second point is....only if you can manage to bring something realy new to the table in the sense of "It ask for a change of playstyle" or giving meaningfull options.
Just a bigger stick...nah we don't realy need that.
So if you have good suggestions on how to turn the stuff into something interesting, please go ahead.
I think there are some things that are interesting, others...nope. Lighter or heavyer AC...strip some armor or drop another weapon for that on or two tons but as long as its just another AC we don't need it.

Special ammo like mines? Yes I can see a use for those, also if its more of a niche it could change gameplay.

Third point on that topic...engine restrictions and PGI need someone who gets through the code.
MWO has pretty much from the beginning been a monster to handle, from what I heared and I think I also heard that there is no one left that actualy worked on the original one.

So technicaly they might be very limited on what they can actualy do without a seriouse time and work investment.
Personaly, if they get a coder that can work with the engine, I would prefere if they first go in and optimize the **** out of the game and implement more modern technics like Vulcan rendering. Physical based material and stuff.

[TheArisen]

Horseman, on 07 May 2022 - 12:01 PM, said:

Same as it did (not) last time?

It absolutely did bring back players last time. The excitement over new builds and playstyles was obvious.

Edited by TheArisen, 09 May 2022 - 10:33 PM.

[LordNothing]

i think most of pgi's problems have been doing things in the easiest most minimally viable way possible with no capacity for long term planning. everything is a placeholder for a future placeholder. systems get ripped out and replaced by equally flawed systems. nobody does a refinement pass on anything.

i think initially mwo was a means to fund the mw5 game they always wanted to make, and when that turned out less successful than they hoped, they decided to try and keep mwo around for a while longer. they might be going in the right direction now, but a lot of that lack of forethought has really crippled what they can do now.

[FupDup]

LordNothing, on 08 May 2022 - 01:05 PM, said:

i think most of pgi's problems have been doing things in the easiest most minimally viable way possible with no capacity for long term planning. everything is a placeholder for a future placeholder. systems get ripped out and replaced by equally flawed systems. nobody does a refinement pass on anything.

i think initially mwo was a means to fund the mw5 game they always wanted to make, and when that turned out less successful than they hoped, they decided to try and keep mwo around for a while longer. they might be going in the right direction now, but a lot of that lack of forethought has really crippled what they can do now.

We could also see this when PGI tried Transverse. It's really apparent that they desperately wanted to get away from MWO, without realizing that MWO is their flagship title that put them on the radar in the first place. For better or for worse, this game is PGI's magnum opus.

[GunRaptor]

w0qj, on 24 April 2022 - 02:20 AM, said:

Premium Combat pets (Elemental, Elemental IIC, Pollux tanks, helicopters, etc.)!

Whoa, I think you struck gold with this idea.

We already have the little UAV buddies that hover near us doing nothing... imagine if we could have elemental buddies on our OmniMech shooting AI guided small lasers and SRM2s periodically at a light mech that gets too close or whatnot. The assets already exist, too, and animations could be minimal.

Also, having a VTOL buddy shooting occasionally, hiding behind us and poking out for potshots would also be cool.

Ground vehicle / tank AI buddies might be a bit harder. VTOLs are already lightly armed, but an SRM Carrier as a "pet" might be massively overpowered. Perhaps such "pets" would be limited to Assault Mechs, only. In fact, making the speed of a mech the primary deciding factor as to whether or not a certain type of pet can be taken may be a good balancing measure...no LRM carrier following around a Flea...it would leave it far behind and offer nothing to the Flea.

On the other hand...a ProtoMech AI pet...and only one per mech, type dependent on speed... wouldn't be awful on any mech of any class...and would be about the right size for such a concept. It could even serve as a weak barrier against backstabbing lights, but not so much of a barrier as to fully prevent a backstab, nor unrewarding in and of itself to destroy before going for the main prize of the player-controlled mech.

Air Strikes could be replaced by having an AI buddy Aerospace Fighter or conventional aircraft zooming near you every so often... and give enemy Mechs a chance to shoot it down, or kill you to make it go away.

Artillery could possibly be replaced with an AI Long Tom or Arrow IV vehicle that you could command to deploy in one spot, and shoot occasionally at allied locks.

You could potentially have an APC / IFV vehicle pet, and could have what BattleTech calls "PBI" take and hold choke points on the map with crew served weapons and entrenched cover.

You could even get utility functions from such units, like AMS support or (non-skill tree boosted) ECM. IIRC, there is a VTOL in lore / TT that does nothing but carry ECM for Mechs (looked it up, it's called the Nightshade). There are also drone carriers that just launch UAVs and UGVs in the lore...which could also make for a cool "combat pet." Not to mention the spotter plane (called the Boomerang) that could act like an advanced UAV or just provide a sensor range boost similar to the Battle Computer of the Cyclops. This brings up the idea of using such companions to fill "holes" in one's mech's build (perhaps the spotter plane could expand sensor range, and make some non-LOS targets count as if in line-of-sight for missile boats, or alternatively provide TAG), which would add some actual new depth to the game.

Adding these "support units" to the game would add one more thing to shoot at, too, without causing significantly more issues to back end support like adding more players might.

Yeah, I REALLY like the potential of this concept.

This idea deserves it's own thread for discussion.

Edited by GunRaptor, 12 May 2022 - 05:31 AM.

[Alexandros]

Well with that logic in order to add advanced tech that would shine you need to make the current weapons like they were meant to be and I give an example of my beloved SRMS which should have partial lock and Streak SRMS that elevate that lock to super accuracy. And none would ever say this will be broken since there are excellent dumb fire missiles on the game and they work as they meant to be :MRMs

[LordNothing]

would be cool if srms would chase tag.

but leave it to pgi to develop their game in a way where that is not possible.

Edited by LordNothing, 16 May 2022 - 06:50 PM.

[The6thMessenger]

LordNothing, on 16 May 2022 - 06:50 PM, said:

would be cool if srms would chase tag.

but leave it to pgi to develop their game in a way where that is not possible.

You mean steer like Half Life rocket launcher? Would be interesting, but I think that would only work better with Arrow IV.