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Time To Gate Faction Play


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#1 Yondu Udonta

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Posted 30 May 2022 - 08:28 AM

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I rather wait an hour per match than to play with players that obviously do not belong in this game mode.

Edited by Ekson Valdez, 07 June 2022 - 11:55 PM.
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#2 IronWolfPack64

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Posted 30 May 2022 - 10:21 AM

That makes one of you. The day we start cutting off players from certain game modes until they are “good enough” is the day faction play dies. What needs to happen is to encourage new players to get involved with a unit (signing bonus mechanic?) or reintroduce a more new player friendly game mode such as scouting. If you want an already small community to shrivel and die then go ahead and cut off the only hope this game mode has. Trust me most people would rather play the game than wait an hour in que…..

#3 Terrur Of Death

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Posted 30 May 2022 - 01:16 PM

I'm guessing you might be one of the people who also complained about scouting and got the Long Tom removed also aren't ya?

Edited by Terrur Of Death, 30 May 2022 - 01:18 PM.


#4 Lusciousbalzack

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Posted 30 May 2022 - 02:10 PM

HA! Are you sure you're not the one who doesn't belong in FP with this level of pettiness? Seriously, you want to bar players just because they don't meet some level of expertise that you expect. That is beyond ridiculous. Faction Play already has an insanely small player-base. Yet you want to make it even smaller? Why not just play purely Competitive then? At the very least you'll be ensured to play only with good players. Get out of here with your pettiness. Not everyone is an absolute beast at Faction Play like F I S S I O N, D A T A, etc. Hell, I sell out for objectives in siege, does that make me a bad player because I'd rather win at all cost than get a high damage score / higher match score? Hell naw! It means I want to play the objective(s) and win. Again, get out of here with your pettiness. It's disgusting and destroys the community. Suggesting that we have some skill level that is needed to join up in the game mode that offers the most C-Bills (in-game currency) that is used to purchase mechs, weapons, engines, consumables and equipment that newer players don't have yet because they haven't been playing since launch? You're ridiculous! Everyone is bad at some point in their MechWarrior career. Yet you had the gall to call out lower tiered players just because you lost? BOOHOO! Get over it. Better yet, get better at the game so you can carry those lower skilled pilots. Don't bash on them, support them. Offer better builds. Offer tips like how to torso-twist to absorb damage. Offer them something rather than just saying "OH, BAD PLAYER BAD AND NEEDS TO BE BARRED FROM THIS GAME MODE!".

#5 Jeff on a Buffalo

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Posted 30 May 2022 - 04:11 PM

Yeah Lusciousbalzack, I gotta chime in here after reading your post.
Yondude has probably done more for the FW community than most anybody else. He has that FW guide for new players that offers mech ideas, solid starter drop decks for beginners, a run-down of each Siege map on how to play them. He streams FW play on Twitch.
If Yondude is pointing out an issue that he is noticing in that game-mode, it should be taken with a level of respect and not ridiculed to the extent that you just posted. Provide your opinion, provide your points on why you disagree, and then leave it at that.
Cheers.

#6 John Bronco

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Posted 30 May 2022 - 04:43 PM

At the very least trial mechs should not be allowed.

#7 Khalcruth

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Posted 30 May 2022 - 05:44 PM

I'm afraid the image is so blurry I can't actually make out of if the information you might be trying to convey with it.

#8 ccrider

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Posted 30 May 2022 - 08:11 PM

43 to 43 sorta indicates they were perfect for that match based on the skill levels of each team. Some people carry; others get carried but that's a balanced match in the end. Population is too small to gate anything now. Better to accept some people go in with a different skill set/ mind set and do what you do.

#9 Lusciousbalzack

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Posted 30 May 2022 - 11:07 PM

View PostJeff on a Buffalo, on 30 May 2022 - 04:11 PM, said:

Yeah Lusciousbalzack, I gotta chime in here after reading your post.
Yondude has probably done more for the FW community than most anybody else. He has that FW guide for new players that offers mech ideas, solid starter drop decks for beginners, a run-down of each Siege map on how to play them. He streams FW play on Twitch.
If Yondude is pointing out an issue that he is noticing in that game-mode, it should be taken with a level of respect and not ridiculed to the extent that you just posted. Provide your opinion, provide your points on why you disagree, and then leave it at that.
Cheers.


Heard. I will be more civil in the future.

#10 cazeral

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Posted 31 May 2022 - 12:48 AM

Regardless of how long and how much a single person puts into the game, this is one of the worst things you could propose.

FW is a completely different ball game and even a competent QP player can have trouble acclimatising to FW. We all started as newbs to the different format FW is at sometime, gating access will do nothing to boost numbers and may actively dissuade some players from even trying it.

Sadly, gating is just another symptom of "elitist" play, regardless of what is probably a positive intention of this suggestion to make each drop better for the participants, but this usually ends up as an additional division of the player base, something MWO can't really afford to do.

#11 katoult

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Posted 31 May 2022 - 12:48 AM

View PostLusciousbalzack, on 30 May 2022 - 02:10 PM, said:

Not everyone is an absolute beast at Faction Play like F I S S I O N, D A T A, etc. Hell, I sell out for objectives in siege, does that make me a bad player because I'd rather win at all cost than get a high damage score / higher match score.

With some enlargement (and squinting your eyes) you can find in the screenshot that the two players Yondu is pointing out seem to have had two-digit damage scores.

One of them still had two mechs left, i.e. was either afk or dc'd for the vast majority of the match.

#12 Klaatu Verata Niksumthingidunno

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Posted 31 May 2022 - 01:21 AM

Ive seen Mercury playing a fair bit.He tries, he listens,he is learning.FP needs all the players it can get.Maybe the comp players should get their own server to play on? thats a better idea than stopping people that want to play a game.

#13 Marquis De Lafayette

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Posted 31 May 2022 - 05:04 AM

I can understand the frustration, but we idk if it could have been gated in FW’s heyday without cutting off any future for the mode. Gating it today would cut off its present, not just it’s future. We just don’t have the population.

Things that could be done:

1. Ban trial mechs
2. Encourage (somehow) folks to get into active units….so they can start to learn, there are still some that train newbs. But units pretty much aren’t nearly as big a thing anymore. That is a loss when it comes to newbs.
3. Return Scouting to the mode. It was a lot more newb friendly and some units used it to help train new people in the game and others to start to organize a group for a main queue FW drop. It never should have been taken out as it never pulled significantly on the main queue, but helped some units “form up” for the main queue.

Edited by Marquis De Lafayette, 31 May 2022 - 07:49 AM.


#14 LordNothing

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Posted 31 May 2022 - 10:49 PM

View PostIronWolfPack64, on 30 May 2022 - 10:21 AM, said:

That makes one of you. The day we start cutting off players from certain game modes until they are “good enough” is the day faction play dies. What needs to happen is to encourage new players to get involved with a unit (signing bonus mechanic?) or reintroduce a more new player friendly game mode such as scouting. If you want an already small community to shrivel and die then go ahead and cut off the only hope this game mode has. Trust me most people would rather play the game than wait an hour in que…..


that day has already passed. i went from playing fp almost exclusively to not touching it with a 10 foot pole. i wasnt the best, and i wasnt sold on the strict team play either, but i could maintain a w/l > 1. 1k damage and 4 kills a match. if thats not good enough then maybe the mode ought to rot. op can enjoy his wait times.

event queue rears its head and offers modes with decks. now people who wanted to play fp and couldnt have a place to get more or less the same experience without the elitist bs. it seems obvious that the way to grow a mode is make it so everyone can play. event queue does that, fp does not.

Edited by LordNothing, 31 May 2022 - 10:56 PM.


#15 LordNothing

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Posted 31 May 2022 - 10:53 PM

View PostTerrur Of Death, on 30 May 2022 - 01:16 PM, said:

I'm guessing you might be one of the people who also complained about scouting and got the Long Tom removed also aren't ya?


long tom was an excellent feature. it got the static players moving. when faced with the options do nothing and get bombed into the stone age, and push and maybe win, you actually saw players playing a bit more pro-actively.

#16 cazeral

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Posted 01 June 2022 - 01:01 AM

View PostLordNothing, on 31 May 2022 - 10:53 PM, said:


long tom was an excellent feature. it got the static players moving. when faced with the options do nothing and get bombed into the stone age, and push and maybe win, you actually saw players playing a bit more pro-actively.


Actually, long tom was hilariously abused once the mechanics were understood. Usually the attackers dropped with their lightest, jump capable mechs and literally swarmed the defenders. Long tom targeted the highest concentration of mechs regardless of size or side, then rained death from above nearly always delivering far more pain to the defenders than the attackers who zoomed off once the barrage was incoming.

So more like, yet another PGI "working as intended" feature that didn't work Posted Image

Edited by cazeral, 01 June 2022 - 01:02 AM.


#17 Yondu Udonta

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Posted 01 June 2022 - 06:29 AM

lmao these people straight up attacking me for suggesting the gating of a game mode that is supposed to be endgame oriented.

do you really think 1% players who don't know which way their legs are pointing or understand basic game mechanics should be playing this mode where there is NO skill-based matchmaking unlike QP?

did i suggest that only T1s should be playing this game mode? classic baboons jumping the gun and crying elitism whenever a good player suggests changes. if i didnt give a damn about new players, would i write a faction play guide that caters to new players which includes viable mechs, decks and map guides?

@ironwolfpack there needs to be a minimal level of competency in players before they delve into faction play and as the unfortunately blurry image suggests, 1% on jarls doing about 100 damage with 4 mechs suggest otherwise

@terrur didnt play during long tom, glad it got removed regardless

@lusciousbalzack not entertaining those comments, obviously not considering the perspective i have after years of playing the game mode

@cc i am willing to give gating a go despite the low population as the promise of more balanced matches would bring back players who complain about getting bad teammates for a whole 30mins compared to ~5mins in qp

@cazeral there is acclimatizing to faction play and acclimatizing to mwo. these players that i highlighted are evidently not acclimatized to mwo and as such a gate is suggested to keep them away from FP until they have understood the basics of the game. an analogy would be preventing toddlers from accessing the adult pool in the swimming complex - they are not skilled enough and they do not know better. preventing these pilots from queuing into FP will reduce the likelihood of them forming a negative attitude towards the game and help with overall player retention in the community

@klaatu unfortunately his performance in this match suggests otherwise, and mind you the opponents in this match were barely decent

@marquis i do like some of the suggestions but outside of conquest ticket changes it has been 3 years since any significant changes were done, well 3 more years of waiting for changes wouldnt hurt right?

@lordnothing your performance is perfectly fine. i think some people in this thread think that i want pugs to be cream of the crop standard, which is obviously ridiculous and not what i am looking for. also event queue may kill FP, but the uniqueness of siege and the multilayeredness of it will ensure that mid-sized units will continue to play the game mode

Edited by Yondu Udonta, 01 June 2022 - 06:29 AM.


#18 LordNothing

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Posted 01 June 2022 - 12:49 PM

not you personally but ive seen some of the better players, even respected members of the community, say things like "only t1s should play fp". that's roughly only 2% of the population. then turn around and call it "end game content". that's not end game content, that's e-sports, that's league night at the bowling alley. if thats what you want then fine, just be honest about it.

Edited by LordNothing, 01 June 2022 - 12:53 PM.


#19 Peter2k

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Posted 01 June 2022 - 01:11 PM

View Postcazeral, on 01 June 2022 - 01:01 AM, said:


Actually, long tom was hilariously abused
....
"working as intended" feature that didn't work Posted Image

Ahhhh, good ol times.

Run away from the light mechs.


View PostYondu Udonta, on 01 June 2022 - 06:29 AM, said:

@ironwolfpack there needs to be a minimal level of competency in players before they delve into faction play and as the unfortunately blurry image suggests, 1% on jarls doing about 100 damage with 4 mechs suggest otherwise


Mmm, but the how has been the question, basically since FP was implemented.


I do not really think that even the most optimal builds would yield a lot of impovement on really bad performance.
Even a terrible build should be able to squeeze out more than around 25 dmg per mech.

I seem to remember when goups had next to no size limit we were shuffling the "new" players around together with more experienced players, as to balance and hopefully teach (and I guess evaluate).

Edited by Peter2k, 01 June 2022 - 01:19 PM.


#20 Peter2k

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Posted 01 June 2022 - 01:21 PM

View PostLordNothing, on 01 June 2022 - 12:49 PM, said:

not you personally but ive seen some of the better players, even respected members of the community, say things like "only t1s should play fp". that's roughly only 2% of the population. then turn around and call it "end game content". that's not end game content, that's e-sports, that's league night at the bowling alley. if thats what you want then fine, just be honest about it.

If those T1`s can play alone in FP, maybe QP would be more fun all of a sudden.

View PostMarquis De Lafayette, on 31 May 2022 - 05:04 AM, said:

I can understand the frustration, but we idk if it could have been gated in FW’s heyday without cutting off any future for the mode. Gating it today would cut off its present, not just it’s future. We just don’t have the population.

Things that could be done:

1. Ban trial mechs
2. Encourage (somehow) folks to get into active units….so they can start to learn, there are still some that train newbs. But units pretty much aren’t nearly as big a thing anymore. That is a loss when it comes to newbs.
3. Return Scouting to the mode. It was a lot more newb friendly and some units used it to help train new people in the game and others to start to organize a group for a main queue FW drop. It never should have been taken out as it never pulled significantly on the main queue, but helped some units “form up” for the main queue.


1. Not so sure on this
But every little bit helps

Maybe PGI could do a Clan and IS standard drop deck to be equipped for new players.
One long range and one brawling, or whatever the community would build, for each side.


2.
If groups have no size limit (or a high one), they can invite more peeps?
Give a bonus of MC or C-Bill for doing work within the unit?

3.
Probably.

Edited by Peter2k, 01 June 2022 - 01:27 PM.






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