247 replies to this topic

[Quicksilver Aberration]

We won't get anything because the game is in maintenance mode for the most part.

[Knownswift]

None of the games in this series are simulators.

I like TT things when they add neat flavor or add depth to the action experience. Every game in the series does decidedly not TT things.

One thing for sure though, is you don't want knockdowns in this game.

[Akamia Terizen]

I don’t think anyone can tell me what I do or do not want in this or any other game, to be quite honest. I do want knockdowns back. I was happy to have them in the games in which they were a thing. I want them again.

To bring things back on topic, however… Never was a fan of Gauss charge. I understand the why, but I don’t like it. Give it to PPCs instead, maybe.

[PocketYoda]

Knownswift, on 26 July 2022 - 12:14 AM, said:

None of the games in this series are simulators.

I like TT things when they add neat flavor or add depth to the action experience. Every game in the series does decidedly not TT things.

One thing for sure though, is you don't want knockdowns in this game.

I gotta disagree there, i actually enjoyed VIP mode such as it was even as flawed as it was it was fun brawling matches trying to defend the stupid thing.. Taking it away was a mistake, fixing it and letting the defending team see its route would have been a better idea..

So no people know what they want.. Removing stuff is nearly always a mistake.

[MrTBSC]

Akamia Terizen, on 26 July 2022 - 03:29 AM, said:

I don’t think anyone can tell me what I do or do not want in this or any other game, to be quite honest. I do want knockdowns back. I was happy to have them in the games in which they were a thing. I want them again.

To bring things back on topic, however… Never was a fan of Gauss charge. I understand the why, but I don’t like it. Give it to PPCs instead, maybe.

no, you don´t want knockdowns back ... if you enjoy being ganged up by 3 or 4 mechs while lying down not being able to to jack (which WAS possible during MWO´s betadays) then go play MW3 multiplayer for that experience ... though you more likely will be legged by instant ppfld largelaserboats ...

also no on charge on ppcs ... ppcs are balanced through getting super hot, they are pretty much the hottest weapon in Mechwarrior/Battletech and even without MWO´s ghostheat its rather easy to end up overheating and shutting down .. gaussrifles are the coldest heavy weapon with the primary downside of having low ammo per ton, but do high pin point damage at long ranges were aside from the volatility of its destruction there is little reason to not take one for a ranged setup ...

[Curccu]

Akamia Terizen, on 26 July 2022 - 03:29 AM, said:

Never was a fan of Gauss charge. I understand the why, but I don’t like it. Give it to PPCs instead, maybe.

Why? Why would it be better on PPCs than gauss?

MrTBSC, on 26 July 2022 - 10:00 PM, said:

no, you don´t want knockdowns back ...

But I do. No matter how much you want some of us not want it. it's not your call to dictate our opinions.

[MrTBSC]

Curccu, on 27 July 2022 - 03:13 AM, said:

But I do. No matter how much you want some of us not want it. it's not your call to dictate our opinions.

i don´t dictate it, you are just oblivious to how bad it would be for this game that if you tested it during the betadays you would have understood that it would not not be a good implementation ... if not .. well you are more or less a tiny minority with your opinion ..

[caravann]

We don't want knockdown back. Look at the LRM debacle in Battletech where LRM boats mow down mechs with knockdowns.
It's a too powerful disable mechanic.

We want brawling back where we aren't kicking legs and instead hitting arms. Punching off an arm has an impact on how LRM hits the target as it scans for components. But legs, if you get one leg broken you are done for it and both Mechs receive damage by brawling. With arms you are trading one arm for the opponent's arm. Kicks means that you are trading your whole mech for one of their legs.

[Ekson Valdez]

@everyone, the topic is Gauss and PPC
Please do not derail the thread.

Thank you!

[Akamia Terizen]

Curccu, on 27 July 2022 - 03:13 AM, said:

Why? Why would it be better on PPCs than gauss?

As another user pointed out, if I recall, it would open the door for the use of PPC Capacitors, which actually do need to be charged.

Personally, I don't like needing to charge weapons at all, but if any weapon ought to have it, I'd rather it was PPCs, for the above reason.

[caravann]

Clan gauss need their charge up removed since clan is limited to what kind AC it has at disposal.
IS has light gauss and heavy gauss and three kinds of PPC. Clan has one ballistic who works like an IS AC.
The one and only gauss rifle is the only option for clan. All other ballistics are spraying and praying.
The idea that gauss rifles explode is finicky since all weapons are charged up. If this mechanic worked by the book a single medium laser or a small laser is capable of blowing up and include ppc as well. The charge up is a safety and the reason why gauss is the most safest gun available. The mechs heat management reduces with each gun added since they all draw power and are charged up.
This is why some players want to remove all jumpjets since it draws power from the mech and why LAMS are less used.
PPC is the most powerful long range weapon and a charge up doesn't help because it will only make it easier to fire them with gauss and removes the function of the charge up to limit the shots of ppc with gauss. The solution is to make heavy ppc and ER PPC bulkier and use space as a limit factor. The paperdoll has a limited space to make sure that there's not enough room. This encourage weapons mounted on arms instead of all inside the side torso. These changes takes time, this time can be reduced by making each mech bought to have all equipment stored inside inventory.

[Curccu]

Akamia Terizen, on 27 July 2022 - 07:42 AM, said:

As another user pointed out, if I recall, it would open the door for the use of PPC Capacitors, which actually do need to be charged.

Personally, I don't like needing to charge weapons at all, but if any weapon ought to have it, I'd rather it was PPCs, for the above reason.

Above reason isn't really good IMO... IF we get capacitors sure add that charge to PPCs WITH capacitors awesome pros/cons mechanic to add and still have great value with PPCs without capacitors because they are easier to use but less powerful.

Gauss is still almost zero heat, extreme range PPFLD weapon and IMO charge is good mechanics to make it different from ACs without having stupid long CD which is well.. stupid.

Offtopic

Spoiler

MrTBSC, on 27 July 2022 - 03:20 AM, said:

i don´t dictate it, you are just oblivious to how bad it would be for this game that if you tested it during the betadays you would have understood that it would not not be a good implementation ... if not .. well you are more or less a tiny minority with your opinion ..

I was in beta and it was ok mechanic, it was 99.9% removed because Paul got dragon (which had too large collision value) bowled by goons and he rage removed a feature after it.

Have you seen some pools that I'm tiny minority? Or just your opinion?

caravann, on 27 July 2022 - 03:39 AM, said:

We don't want knockdown back. Look at the LRM debacle in Battletech where LRM boats mow down mechs with knockdowns.
It's a too powerful disable mechanic.

You clearly didn't play beta because you are talking about battletech knockdowns and I'm talking about MWO knockdowns that were a thing in beta, this game only had mech on mech collision knockdowns (At least when I played beta there wasn't knockdowns on shots fired.)

Edited by Curccu, 27 July 2022 - 11:04 AM.

[Nightbird]

Honestly, PPCs+Capacitors would be the easiest new weapons we can add to the game.

These would be new weapons with different tonnage and slot requirements, have a charge-up to fire, and have explosion chance when destroyed. No new art assets needed since it's still PPCs on the outside.

[caravann]

ppc capacitor can't be added for the same reason why artemis isn't added to the guns.
This means that a new kind of upgrade need to be added to the game just to get a "ppc+capacitor" version
and it won't change the meta delete button ppc.

[Nightbird]

caravann, on 27 July 2022 - 01:53 PM, said:

ppc capacitor can't be added for the same reason why artemis isn't added to the guns.
This means that a new kind of upgrade need to be added to the game just to get a "ppc+capacitor" version
and it won't change the meta delete button ppc.

what?

You realize we already have LRM20 and LRM20+Artemis where the latter is 1 slot larger and 1 ton heavier right?

For capacitors, we would simply get LPPC+Capacitor, PPC+Capacitor, ER PPC+Capacitor, HPPC+Capacitor items in the game.

[Akamia Terizen]

caravann, on 27 July 2022 - 01:53 PM, said:

ppc capacitor can't be added for the same reason why artemis isn't added to the guns.
This means that a new kind of upgrade need to be added to the game just to get a “ppc+capacitor” version
and it won't change the meta delete button ppc.

?

Artemis IV is already in the game, and has been for years. It’s a missile FCS, and only ever has been – not just in MWO, but everywhere else in the BattleTech franchise.

Are you perhaps referring to a different system?

Edited by Akamia Terizen, 27 July 2022 - 02:26 PM.

[The6thMessenger]

Nightbird, on 27 July 2022 - 11:11 AM, said:

Honestly, PPCs+Capacitors would be the easiest new weapons we can add to the game.

These would be new weapons with different tonnage and slot requirements, have a charge-up to fire, and have explosion chance when destroyed. No new art assets needed since it's still PPCs on the outside.

Would honestly solve most of the gripes of PPCs not having much damage, and couldn't stand on it's own.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

The6thMessenger, on 27 July 2022 - 03:35 PM, said:

Would honestly solve most of the gripes of PPCs not having much damage, and couldn't stand on it's own.

Fixing it by making a better weapon isn't really fixing it so much as moving the goal posts. Especially if roles can't be effectively carved out for the current PPCs. PPC+Capacitors is one of the many things that imo don't translate really well.

Not saying it isn't possible just incredulous that they fix anything or really add anything. IMO, Yeonne was the one that suggested PPCs be effectively charge up lasers that have an incredibly short beam (0.3s or something short like that) and I still like that idea over just making PPCs+Capacitor just Gauss version of PPCs to match the normal PPCs which are just like Autocannons.

[YueFei]

Mechwarrior 3 had knockdowns from weapon impacts. It had some kind of crazy physics simulations going on, where I remember the torso wobbling from gyroscopic precession after taking a hard hit.

So while I'm not 100% certain, I believe the player had some control/agency over it, and could lean/counter-maneuver to prevent falling down after getting hit?

Knockdowns would be OK if players had some agency over it, so that with skillful piloting you could always remain upright. The problem is if it's RNG-based or in some other way outside of players' control. That would suck.

[Akamia Terizen]

YueFei, on 27 July 2022 - 04:16 PM, said:

Mechwarrior 3 had knockdowns from weapon impacts. It had some kind of crazy physics simulations going on, where I remember the torso wobbling from gyroscopic precession after taking a hard hit.

So while I'm not 100% certain, I believe the player had some control/agency over it, and could lean/counter-maneuver to prevent falling down after getting hit?

Knockdowns would be OK if players had some agency over it, so that with skillful piloting you could always remain upright. The problem is if it's RNG-based or in some other way outside of players' control. That would suck.

I think there are circumstances in which it shouldn't be in player control, but most cases I know of are based on piloting skill checks, which absolutely should translate to players being able to actively prevent it somehow.

But yeah. PPC Capacitors. Charge those, if we get them. Gauss charge, meanwhile, is bad, and I will die on that hill.

Though for better or worse, that fight was lost years ago.

Edited by Akamia Terizen, 27 July 2022 - 04:57 PM.