247 replies to this topic

[Saved By The Bell]

May be sniping by ppc and gauss are superior now, couse LRM unable to get snipers (not all of them stealth and EMC).

[Staude Coston]

How about you fix that one bull **** (Snup Nose) before you start anything else

[JediPanther]

Saved By The Bell, on 31 July 2022 - 07:52 AM, said:

May be sniping by ppc and gauss are superior now, couse LRM unable to get snipers (not all of them stealth and EMC).

Lrm can only counter snipers if you have a decent angle and trajectory in los to the sniper but many people can't figure out how to move to a better spot so they just lrm into walls and rocks and maybe a building if on solaris. If you want to lrm at all you need every single skill for lrms maxed out with every counter ecm thing you can shove on a mech.

Max sesor range,max velocity,max missile spread,max range,c/bap,tag, target duration and so on.

[The6thMessenger]

I just realized, I don't get it, what's the role of GR, and LGR again?

I notice that the GR and LGR share the same super-high range, 810m outwards 2050m. So why would I go for LGR when I can go GR? It's long range after all, rapid-shots ain't really as important as landing them. It would be far more efficient to me to just invest the 6 tons for extra 10 damage.

You might think that, the extra 10% damage would mean that LGR would be more competitive against GR -- but my concern is that, why must it be competing at such bracket at all? What's up with two weapons vying for the same role? Oh, LGR is DPS? But isn't that better suited for an array of AC2s?

And then also the HGR, yeah we talked about it, but I don't understand why did we skip mid-range, and just jumped from long-range to short-range?

Edited by The6thMessenger, 01 August 2022 - 03:28 PM.

[w0qj]

[Tangent_Warning]
So are the 2x [Hight_Explosive] skill worth maxing out for missile builds then? Always wondered about this.

JediPanther, on 31 July 2022 - 11:01 AM, said:

Lrm can only counter snipers if you have a decent angle and trajectory in los to the sniper but many people can't figure out how to move to a better spot so they just lrm into walls and rocks and maybe a building if on solaris. If you want to lrm at all you need every single skill for lrms maxed out with every counter ecm thing you can shove on a mech.

Max sesor range,max velocity,max missile spread,max range,c/bap,tag, target duration and so on.

[caravann]

w0qj, on 01 August 2022 - 03:33 PM, said:

[Tangent_Warning]
So are the 2x [Hight_Explosive] skill worth maxing out for missile builds then? Always wondered about this.

LRM is random hits on the paper doll that you'll have to manually fire the LRM while staring down the barrel of a gauss rifle

[Saved By The Bell]

Really LGR range should be even more.

[The6thMessenger]

Saved By The Bell, on 02 August 2022 - 01:18 AM, said:

Really LGR range should be even more.

Eh, well at 810, things are already too niche. You can molest people with the GR as much as the LGR would in pretty much most maps at typical long range engagement. Of course you can annoy them more with the LGR, but you'd be more successful with GR since you'd be more of a threat doing your most damage in one go, than over and over having to acquire and lead the target, and they can hide more easily.

Upwards 1223.3333m, with GR you're still doing 10 PPFLD a ******* pop -- and that is sans the IS quirks. How many maps do we have that lets you fight at that far of trades?

Although if they really want a GR vs LGR competition on the long-range, I believe they could make it so that LGR has extreme projectile speed, like upwards 50% difference. Gauss and LGR is at 2200m/s right? Why not have GRs back at 2000 to tone down their long-range, while LGRs would be at 3000. The time-to-target difference is negligible at shorter ranges, so the GR still has a point. That way, GR has the heavy damage, but LGRs have the ensured damage by being basically hit scan at this point.

Of course none of that rapid-fire BS though if it's the safe long-range option.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 02 August 2022 - 02:02 AM.

[An6ryMan69]

The6thMessenger, on 02 August 2022 - 01:41 AM, said:

Eh, well at 810, things are already too niche. You can molest people with the GR as much as the LGR would in pretty much most maps at typical long range engagement. Of course you can annoy them more with the LGR, but you'd be more successful with GR since you'd be more of a threat doing your most damage in one go, than over and over having to acquire and lead the target, and they can hide more easily.

Upwards 1223.3333m, with GR you're still doing 10 PPFLD a ******* pop -- and that is sans the IS quirks. How many maps do we have that lets you fight at that far of trades?

Although if they really want a GR vs LGR competition on the long-range, I believe they could make it so that LGR has extreme projectile speed, like upwards 50% difference. Gauss and LGR is at 2200m/s right? Why not have GRs back at 2000 to tone down their long-range, while LGRs would be at 3000. The time-to-target difference is negligible at shorter ranges, so the GR still has a point. That way, GR has the heavy damage, but LGRs have the ensured damage by being basically hit scan at this point.

Of course none of that rapid-fire BS though if it's the safe long-range option.

Yes, the light gauss as it is now simply doesn't make sense, particularly in terms of range.

How it should work is HGR=massive close range damage at moderate speed projectiles, GR=high damage at medium range at high speed, LGR=moderate damage at extreme range at extreme speed. Wouldn't be that hard to fix, as suggested by 6th Messenger.

But the main issue that keeps all gauss weapons a niche weapon is the charging system. Right now its a weapon for superior players, and it's a dud for lesser skilled players. I wasn't around when the charging system for gauss was apparently introduced, but I think an honest re-considering of this might be in order. A weapon system that everybody hates to fight against, but most also hate to use themselves seems like a thing that could maybe use some improving.

Edited by An6ryMan69, 02 August 2022 - 10:17 AM.

[Reno Blade]

I would like to start with a few bold statements first:
I think,
1. Weapons should not be based around grouping them up (in the largest group possible with HSL).
2. Weapons balance should rather use difficulty-to-hit scaling than cooldown to controll dmg/alpha output (automatically spreads damage, even if boating)
3. Heat dissipation vs heat buildup should have balanced options for similar dmg output of dps/burst over time

Reasoning:
Every build that allows boating a weapon is automatically performing better than any combination/mix due to easy use and efficiency.
e.g. We can see even light mechs using 3x LL or 3xSNPPC, where in the past you have seen 1x LL +2x ML or only 2x LL.
Nowadays the biggest dmg output trumps everything, even twisting is reduced because you can just destroy someone in 2 good volleys instead of trying to spread dmg.
Many quirks were added to counter this for light/med mechs (e.g. huge cooldown buffs on Hunchbacks for their single signature weapon, or a Spider/Locust with a single energy slot)


Some possible areas for adjustments:
- Possible reduction of overall Heatsink efficiency (the last buff was very counter productive in that area, as everything got buffed for heat mgmt) -> emphasizing smaller amount of large weapons over boating them
- Earlier Heat Scale Limits, but possibly less penalizing (better scaling)
- Adjustments of Heat Scale groupings (i'm looking at you 2x LL, 6x ML boats)
- Adjustments of damage spread behaviours


Now focusing on PPC and Gauss Family first:
Gauss:
I think that Gauss + PPC/Laser combo is especiall efficient because of the 1 heat Gauss.
Just upping Gauss to 3-4 heat brings it closer to AC10 heat levels, so you have much better "options" to combine AC10 +PPC or Gauss +PPC or AC20 +PPC if you want PPFLD builds.
Then the Heat Scale could be reduced for these combos to make each one a valid build.

Crazy Idea...
Gauss could also be changed to have 1s cooldown, but a 2sec charge up, but i guess that's too much for most players (who already struggle with 0.5 - 0.75s)


PPCs:
I think that PPCs should have Splash by default with different amounts to up it's dmg to the "top of energy weapon" without making other weapons obsolete.

And i feel like PPCs could use a auto-charge mechanic to make it less twitch-shooter PPFLD and harder to hit, without going back to 1000m/s velocity (or less) - even if a PPC flying at 500m/s would look awesome !!


By the way ....
I've already posted this PPC splash graphs >5 years ago (see my signature link).
With some adjustments, this could be used as a base for PPC splash balancing.

PPC Splash graphs (from 2017)

Spoiler

I've tried to make each PPC unique and make HPPC a mix of multiple profiles that is worth taking over combining any of the other PPCs (e.g. LPPCs with PPCs).

PPC / LPPC


ERPPC / SNPPC


CERPPC / HPPC


PPCs are great for mid-long range and have 0 dmg min range
LPPCs have constant ratio and 0 dmg min range (so they are less efficient on mid-long range)
ERPPCs have highest direct damage (100%) on long-extreme only and have high splash on shorter range
CERPPCs is using increasing direct damage, but has good averages
HPPCs have some splash at min range, but get high direct damage overall (more than combinations of other types)
SNPPCs start with high direct damage but drop off quickly and also have a shorter range and damage drop


If using constant ratios, my suggestion would be this:
Spoiler





That way you get more total damage from HPPC and still can combine quite nicely the LPPC with the other types and also not making multiple LPPCs stronger than the other types (considering 2x LPPC would be 6+2+2 and normal PPC would be 8+1+1).

Note: as this is very old, I would probably increase most of the values now.


Another idea could be to make PPCs a Burst-Stream projectlile (merge of cUAC and Laser mechanic).
E.g. you automatically charge the PPC, a blue laser indicator (faint like Tag) would show (optional), and the PPC burst of 0.5s duration "projectile" is fired.
Because it's a burst like cUAC, it could lead to damage spread like a laser/cUAC.
-> basically moving the spread mechanic to something skill-based (both shooter and target with twisting) like on the cUACs.

With this the dmg potential could be increased for single fire weapons with high dmg/heat, but higher skill required (easier for slow assaults, harder for faster targets).

...
....
but ok, let's get back to "simple" and "realistic" options: -> turned out to be a whole rebalancing list now.... sorry
As others said, more weapons need to be considered, when we talk about PPC/Gauss, so in total, some adjustments that can easily change the game to a better balance (use some, or all):

PPC family:
General splash added, possibly automatic charging (or same as Gauss charging) for all PPCs to reduce easy twitch shooting
- ERPPC no splash, all direct (0+10+0)
- CERPPC medium splash, high direct (3+10+3)
- PPC medium splash, high direct (2+10+2), velocity of AC10,
- HPPC high splash, high direct (3+15+3), velocity of AC10,
- LPPC, low splash, medium direct (1+4+1), velocity of AC5
- SNPPC high splash, low direct (4+7+4), velocity of AC20, -> with less range and speed it would better fit to the brawling with AC20/SRMs without over-performing the std PPC.
- Capacitors potentially just adding +1s charge delay and heat/dmg


Gauss family:
Possibly increase of charge time and lowering cd (e.g. 2sec charge, but only a 1s cooldown)
- Gauss/cGauss reduce max range, increase heat to ~4, increase charge time?
- LGauss could stay as is with the low heat and cd then (otherwise reducing cooldown further)
- HGauss increase heat to ~6, reduce slot size by 1 ?
Laser family:
- Lasers increase beam duration, reduce heat, but merge Large/Medium HSL to one group (e.g. max 2 LL +2ML or 1LL +3ML) -> they should feel like a staple "backup" and "goto" standard weapon, but not being better when boated than when combined with other "strong" weapons (like a hard hitting PPC or AC) to round up the build
- Pulse lasers could have half the cooldown, to make them really feel like dps (possibily reducing duration, dmg and heat as well)

alternatively the damage (and heat) of lasers could be reduced, overall


Missile family:
- Adjusting HSL, overall heat and cd (less cd/heat, but smaller volleys would due to higher penalties)
- Or making it overall more of a spam/support type by reducing everything (dmg, heat, cd, accuracy) ? but no, that would make boating even more important -> so rather increase dmg, but also increase heat/cd and spread ?


Equipment:
- Targeting Computer moving some PPC splash to the core dmg, reducing Gauss shake/charge?
- is-XL engines (as often mentioned) don't mean instant death
- Jump Jets constant shake, much more fuel (you can keep the slow velocity, but you should be able to use much longer and often)
- ECM reduce overall range, remove unable-to-lock (just use the slow lock on timer)


Skills:
- Radar Deprevation, reduce to max of -80%
- Target Decay some increase to counter Radar Deprevation ?
- Info Gathering could also reduce the negative effect of ECM lock on slowdown
- Jump Jet tree needs to get massive buff (especially if the JJets are not buffed) so that every point is worth taking (you want to fly, even if that means being the perfect target in the air)
-



Some more general tweaks that could work as well:
- All weapon heat is generated over 1second rather than instantly -> reduced heat spikes
- Heat Scale Penalty heat is generated over 1-3 seconds, instead of instantly -> reduce heat spikes, but still limits you after alpha-striking, but provides better options if you want to go full in
- Heat Scale time windows increased to more than the current 0.5sec (maybe 1s or even 2) and adding a indicator (heat gain per second) like MW2 had. -> together with the above points, the heat scale would be more of a soft cap rather than hard cap heat spike mechanic

Alternatively we can just reduce heatsink efficiency

- Increase all structure by 50% -> reduces XL engine deaths, legging and makes critting more useful (over just losing a component directly)
- Ammo amount reduced -> make lower number of ammo-base weapons more efficient than boating due to extra weight of more ammo needed

[Quicksilver Aberration]

The6thMessenger, on 02 August 2022 - 01:41 AM, said:

Eh, well at 810, things are already too niche. You can molest people with the GR as much as the LGR would in pretty much most maps at typical long range engagement. Of course you can annoy them more with the LGR, but you'd be more successful with GR since you'd be more of a threat doing your most damage in one go, than over and over having to acquire and lead the target, and they can hide more easily.

Upwards 1223.3333m, with GR you're still doing 10 PPFLD a ******* pop -- and that is sans the IS quirks. How many maps do we have that lets you fight at that far of trades?

Although if they really want a GR vs LGR competition on the long-range, I believe they could make it so that LGR has extreme projectile speed, like upwards 50% difference. Gauss and LGR is at 2200m/s right? Why not have GRs back at 2000 to tone down their long-range, while LGRs would be at 3000. The time-to-target difference is negligible at shorter ranges, so the GR still has a point. That way, GR has the heavy damage, but LGRs have the ensured damage by being basically hit scan at this point.

Of course none of that rapid-fire BS though if it's the safe long-range option.

I don't remember why they increased the range on Gauss from 660 to 810 originally, maybe it was to make it more used because Gauss just didn't have the DPS but honestly I think the best way is to drop the range back down and give it a little faster cooldown. They can also remove the 2.5 range modifier. IMO every weapon should just have max range be x2 of optimal because weapons that don't follow it somehow end up back to x2 anyway.

I remember back in MW4 there was pretty good interplay between the different Gauss Rifles.
LGR did 12 damage with a 6 sec recycle at 1200m (which was extreme range like 800 optimal is currently, it was also max visual range in that game).
Gauss did 18 damage with a 7 sec recycle at 800-900m (long range for that game, mixed well with cERLL and PPCs). Clan Gauss had a slightly longer recycle time to give a modicum of compensation for being lighter.
HGR did 29-30 damage with an 8 sec recycle at 600m (mid range, combined well with PPCs and IS LLs).

There was some variance on the actual stats depending on the mod but for the most part these were actually pretty consistent.

[The6thMessenger]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 02 August 2022 - 03:59 PM, said:

I don't remember why they increased the range on Gauss from 660 to 810 originally, maybe it was to make it more used because Gauss just didn't have the DPS but honestly I think the best way is to drop the range back down and give it a little faster cooldown. They can also remove the 2.5 range modifier. IMO every weapon should just have max range be x2 of optimal because weapons that don't follow it somehow end up back to x2 anyway.

They lamented the ultra long-range the 3x max range of the GR that it used to have.

For all of the cauldron that does good, it has these little damning nuggets that they balance it around their preference and how they play the game, and everyone just follows suit. Of course upping the damage on PPC would help, we can also do the same with the AC5.

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 02 August 2022 - 03:59 PM, said:

I remember back in MW4 there was pretty good interplay between the different Gauss Rifles.

Yeah, but I think that was more of it being a single player experience.

I'd put the stats like this:

> LGR:
- DMG: 10
- CD: 2.25s + 0.75s
- DPS: 3.33
- Heat: 1
- Range: 810m- 1620m
- Velocity: 2500

> GR:
- DMG: 15
- CD: 4s + 0.75s
- DPS: 3.15789
- Heat: 2
- Range: 660m - 1240m
- Velocity: 2000

> HGR:
- DMG: 25
- CD: 5.5s + 0.75s
- DPS: 3.7037
- Heat: 4
- Range: 330m - 990m
- Velocity: 1350

I normalized the LGR Charge time at 0.75 so that it has the same timing as with the other GR, so ease of training.

The GR is basically old GR, but more heat. I didn't skimp on the heat this time because lets face it, the heat makes GR hard to balance.

The HGR's biggest change is the range. It has a more normalized distance, it's 25 damage at 330, 20 at 432m, and 15 at 594m. It's competitive at mid-range, the heat means it's more iffy using with ERMLs, and now it's worth the slog of standard-engines. The reduced projectile speed for the HGR is for it to be challenging to land, and the DPS via long cooldown to hamper the ERML Mix.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 02 August 2022 - 06:12 PM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

The6thMessenger, on 02 August 2022 - 04:51 PM, said:

Yeah, but I think that was more of it being a single player experience.

No, even in multiplayer it was pretty good balance. IS Gauss actually was probably the least used of the options but that was partially because Clan weapons just had so much that played at that range and did things better than IS equivalents.

TBH, your heavy gauss still doesn't make me feel good. You gave it a boost in range but not enough and you lowered the velocity (which is sort of counter-productive for increasing the range). Increasing the cooldown is somewhat of a minor nerf. Light Gauss may not need the DPS boost either because it is longer range and lighter.

[The6thMessenger]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 02 August 2022 - 05:49 PM, said:

No, even in multiplayer it was pretty good balance. IS Gauss actually was probably the least used of the options but that was partially because Clan weapons just had so much that played at that range and did things better than IS equivalents.

MW4 honestly makes me want to just mix-tech, then balance by tonnage. This asymmetrical balance is just making this more complicated than it needs to be.

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 02 August 2022 - 05:49 PM, said:

TBH, your heavy gauss still doesn't make me feel good. You gave it a boost in range but not enough and you lowered the velocity (which is sort of counter-productive for increasing the range). Increasing the cooldown is somewhat of a minor nerf.

Eh well, my concern is that it's a midrange AC20 with the velocity.

But the short range is honestly kept because the GR is nerfed the **** back to 660m outwards 1240m.

I could also agree in -1 slot with 1650m velocity. But I think that's just about it, unless we keep GR's ultra high range.

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 02 August 2022 - 05:49 PM, said:

Light Gauss may not need the DPS boost either because it is longer range and lighter.

Yeah but it's still a pretty niche bracket. Maybe 3s CD?

[Quicksilver Aberration]

The6thMessenger, on 02 August 2022 - 06:20 PM, said:

Eh well, my concern is that it's a midrange AC20 with the velocity.

But the short range is honestly kept because the GR is nerfed the **** back to 660m outwards 1240m.

I could also agree in -1 slot with 1650m velocity. But I think that's just about it, unless we keep GR's ultra high range.

I just figured something like 400-450m optimal with typical 2x or 2.5x like other Gauss and just keep the 1500ms velocity.

The6thMessenger, on 02 August 2022 - 06:20 PM, said:

Yeah but it's still a pretty niche bracket. Maybe 3s CD?

3s seemed fine to me.

[The6thMessenger]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 02 August 2022 - 07:12 PM, said:

I just figured something like 400-450m optimal with typical 2x or 2.5x like other Gauss and just keep the 1500ms velocity.

Duuuuude, it does 25 damage. If it were 20 damage, I could defend the 450m-900m, or the 400m-1000m.

That's 50 PPFLD damage with 2x HGR builds, on mid-range. Even worse with Light Engines if we allow -1 slot. In many cases, it invalidates the point of bringing other weapons for that matter.

Perhaps 330m-1320m? 20 PPFLD at 528m.

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 02 August 2022 - 07:12 PM, said:

3s seemed fine to me.

Okay, but to clarify that is still 0.75s charge up time.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 02 August 2022 - 07:40 PM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

The6thMessenger, on 02 August 2022 - 07:36 PM, said:

Duuuuude, it does 25 damage. If it were 20 damage, I could defend the 450m-900m, or the 400m-1000m.

That's 50 PPFLD damage with 2x HGR builds, on mid-range. Even worse with Light Engines if we allow -1 slot. In many cases, it invalidates the point of bringing other weapons for that matter.

400-800m or 400-1000m seems fine to me even with LFE compatibility and 25 damage. Why? Cuz chances are it isn't being combined with anything but ERML and itself. AC20s do 20 damage on a 4 second cycle time with no charge up and for 4 tons lighter, they just have less range which works out since it matches snub nose.
If you want to require more time, give it longer charge up by a quarter second so that LGR can have the half-second (which it kinda needs for extreme range combat).

The other option, one that people might not like, is change the ghost heat/charge limit to 1. At that point I would almost be okay bumping the damage from 25 to 30. Then you could run 3 LGR - 2 Gauss - 1 HGR for 30 damage per salvo.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 02 August 2022 - 08:49 PM.

[JediPanther]

w0qj, on 01 August 2022 - 03:33 PM, said:

[Tangent_Warning]
So are the 2x [Hight_Explosive] skill worth maxing out for missile builds then? Always wondered about this.

Yes. It makes them do a lot more damage when they crit last I looked. It works on all missiles. Given how much ecm and muti-ams mechs can or might have you want the missiles that are not shot down by l/ams to do the most amount of damage possible. When given the option I'd chose tag over narc since narc is a lot of tonage wasted over a one ton tag laser. You should also have a uav with auto fill on.

Go into mech lab and mouse over the damage with and without the high ex nodes. Testing grounds also can show it on a mech in time to kill. I usually chose canyon since it has the least things on it for my testing and fairly small map with a centurian a few meters away on spawn.

I'd have to see my cptls to see how I have them set up for lrm-ing. When I switch to srm or mrm I re-skill taking nodes from sensors and put them into armor and mobility torso twist.

[caravann]

JediPanther, on 02 August 2022 - 08:55 PM, said:

Yes. It makes them do a lot more damage when they crit last I looked. It works on all missiles. Given how much ecm and muti-ams mechs can or might have you want the missiles that are not shot down by l/ams to do the most amount of damage possible. When given the option I'd chose tag over narc since narc is a lot of tonage wasted over a one ton tag laser. You should also have a uav with auto fill on.

Go into mech lab and mouse over the damage with and without the high ex nodes. Testing grounds also can show it on a mech in time to kill. I usually chose canyon since it has the least things on it for my testing and fairly small map with a centurian a few meters away on spawn.

I'd have to see my cptls to see how I have them set up for lrm-ing. When I switch to srm or mrm I re-skill taking nodes from sensors and put them into armor and mobility torso twist.

The first effect of critical hits is bonus damage to the internal structure. There is a 15% increase in damage multiplied by the number of crits.

https://wiki.mwomerc...e=Critical_Hits

You deal 0.15 extra damage

You need to critical hit 7 times to gain 1 damage because a LRM deals 1 damage each time it hits the target.
This is why ppc and gauss are extremely much better at dealing critical hit. PPC is allowed to critical hit and the reason why they're used with gauss rifle to increase the chances of a critical hit.

That LRM do a lot more damage is far fetched.

[The6thMessenger]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 02 August 2022 - 08:28 PM, said:

400-800m or 400-1000m seems fine to me even with LFE compatibility and 25 damage. Why? Cuz chances are it isn't being combined with anything but ERML and itself. AC20s do 20 damage on a 4 second cycle time with no charge up and for 4 tons lighter, they just have less range which works out since it matches snub nose.

If you want to require more time, give it longer charge up by a quarter second so that LGR can have the half-second (which it kinda needs for extreme range combat).

The other option, one that people might not like, is change the ghost heat/charge limit to 1. At that point I would almost be okay bumping the damage from 25 to 30. Then you could run 3 LGR - 2 Gauss - 1 HGR for 30 damage per salvo.

Seriously, 30 damage? Come on dude, at that distance? FFS.

Why must we reinforce the PPFLD min-maxy meta? Dude, the problem isn't that it's not mixed with other weapons, it's the fact that it still hurts a lot. Hell the boom AC20, the 2x AC20, despite GH, is serviceable.

Why the hell would people bother with a 40-PPFLD short range when they can do 50 ppfld at much much longer-range? Charge time isn't exactly that much of a stumbling block, guys like you master pre-charging anyways.

Of course, granted, it depends on how much GH Multiplier the change becomes -- but the 2x HGRs typically are only supported by lasers, or none at all -- and the none-at-all can just as well handle the heat. I don't think it would be healthy for the game to have a 60 PPFLD, not at that distance.

I like the GH limit being reduced to 1 though, compounded with the increase of heat to 4, we can use it to imply increased heat with mid-ranged 50 PPFLD, but so far that is it. I think the rest are power-creeping -- and if your concern is with reference of "everything" else, I think everything else also needs some toning down as well TBH.

The charge time is a no-no. We HAD the 1.0s, charge time, and it only served to ruin the timing because people have to wait for .25s longer.

I proposed the 0.75s for the LGR because it's also ruining the timing, but on the different direction, that the 0.25s less charge up time, isn't really being utilized properly in my experience that it ends up being rather inefficient.

But you know, if we must power-creep, I think AC20 needs range bonus and +1 HSL.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 03 August 2022 - 02:00 AM.