26 replies to this topic

[Nesutizale]

I would like to see the Celestial line of Word of Blake mechs in MWO.

I know there are some, to me minor, problems with these.
Yes we can't have IS Omnis because someone at PGI says so. Fine make them Clanmechs or make them non omni mechs with differen variants.
Also no C3, triple Myomers, etc....also don't care much.

JUST GIVE US THE DAMN CHASSIS. I want those guys for the looks more then anything else.
Is there anyone else who would like to have those? Leave a +1 in the comments. PGI started to do new mechs. Time to get the Celestials.

As for those who don't know those mechs:
https://www.sarna.ne...elestial_series
Here you can find all the different Mechs that exist inside that series of mechs.

[LordNothing]

if i was going to recoup the cost of a tech pack or is omnis, i think a large pack is the way to do that. the mechs by themselves would just be a wasted opportunity. new mechs get me back in for a week, new tech gets me back for at least a couple months and i might even buy something.

Edited by LordNothing, 03 July 2022 - 06:06 AM.

[Nesutizale]

New tech would also be something that I am interested in. I just fear that they don't have the resources and I fear for the balance, something that seams to finaly be somewhat acceptable, to go out the window again.

New mechs on the other hand, at least they have a person doing them, so that might be much closer to be actualy be done then the new tech. Something that I guess would require a lot more people to work on?

Still if I can get new tech and new mechs, yay I take it. No question.

[w0qj]

May I suggest this, which is achievable already within the existing MWO engine, given enough manpower/resources (OK, everything but the combat pet part anyways):

- - - - - - - - - -
Let's dream big!

MWO Timeline Expansion (the first one since the Civil War timeline expansion)

Omnimechs for Inner Sphere!
New Mech chassis such as Stone Rhino!
New Hero Atlas with ballistic Left Torso *and* Right Torso!
IS gets advanced ATM!, Binary Lasers,
IS gets Silver bullet gauss, Binary lasers or Hyper assault gauss (credits: Beffa)

Clan gets advanced ER-Pulse-Laser, MRM, RAC, and PPC! New mech chassis!
Angel ECM! Bloodhound Active Probe!

Premium Combat pets (Elemental, Elemental IIC, Pollux tanks, helicopters, etc.)!

More brand new maps!

Deepened Faction Play experience!

Love to dream big

[Gagis]

Eh, new tech from here on is just boring power creep with same old game mechanics but bigger numbers on everything. BT is at its most interesting game balance wise in like 3049.

[w0qj]

How about IS Omnimechs?

Obviously MWO game engine already support Omnimechs... so how about IS Omnimechs for the IS side?

[FupDup]

Gagis, on 03 July 2022 - 10:26 AM, said:

Eh, new tech from here on is just boring power creep with same old game mechanics but bigger numbers on everything. BT is at its most interesting game balance wise in like 3049.

There's still a few entirely unoccupied niches like:

-Magshot/AP Gauss: Tiny ballistics that do upfront damage instead of continuous facetime like MGs

-Chemical Lasers: Clan low-heat lasers with less range and damage that need ammo

-Mech Mortars: Missile weapons that fire in an arc like a grenade launcher

-Thunderbolts: LRMs that fire one single huge missile instead of a cluster

-Plasma Rifle: Ammo-based PPC that also heats up the target (probably OP, admittedly, but certainly unique)

-And a bunch of different armor/structure types

Also, when it comes to "bigger numbers," a number of the missing items like X-Pulse and ER Pulse really aren't really that high on the power creep scale.

[Nesutizale]

IS Omnis are indeed such a low hanging fruit that I don't get why they aren't implemented. I mean most people consider Omnis to be worse then standart mechs anyway so its not a powercreep for the IS is it?

Most people would even avoid them, I think, when they come with XL engines as they will blow up to fast and the reactor can't be changed to light or standart engines


As for new tech in general. I think that they should indeed fill a new niche like some of the mentioned above ones. ER-Pulse don't realy do it for me. Chemlasers on the other hand I could see a use for.

About dreaming big, while I would love that I don't have my hopes up for that. Thats why I thought more alonge the line of "when they finaly have someone to do new mechs we could at least ask for new mechs".

From my point of view I see it as PGI has now
1 guy doing XML with the help of the Cauldron
1 guy doing semi-new maps
1 guy doing mechs

So not a lot they can do.

[w0qj]

Nesutizale, on 03 July 2022 - 01:43 PM, said:

IS Omnis are indeed such a low hanging fruit that I don't get why they aren't implemented. I mean most people consider Omnis to be worse then standart mechs anyway so its not a powercreep for the IS is it?

Most people would even avoid them, I think, when they come with XL engines as they will blow up to fast and the reactor can't be changed to light or standart engines...

About dreaming big, while I would love that I don't have my hopes up for that. Thats why I thought more alonge the line of "when they finaly have someone to do new mechs we could at least ask for new mechs".

Please have IS Omnimechs with LE-Engines (Light Engines), and not XL-Engines please!

I would only buy IS Omnimechs with LE-Engines (Light Engines) that will not die upon side torso blown!

Nesutizale, on 03 July 2022 - 01:43 PM, said:

...From my point of view I see it as PGI has now
1 guy doing XML with the help of the Cauldron
1 guy doing semi-new maps
1 guy doing mechs

So not a lot they can do.

Wow, that's a lot more than before!
Last year only had 1 guy working on MWO if I understood it correctly...

It's getting out of hand...now there are ... THREE !!!

[LordNothing]

Nesutizale, on 03 July 2022 - 06:47 AM, said:

New tech would also be something that I am interested in. I just fear that they don't have the resources and I fear for the balance, something that seams to finaly be somewhat acceptable, to go out the window again.

New mechs on the other hand, at least they have a person doing them, so that might be much closer to be actualy be done then the new tech. Something that I guess would require a lot more people to work on?

Still if I can get new tech and new mechs, yay I take it. No question.

thing is if they do 'just the mechs' its going to be a couple one off packs at most. doing it in concert with a tech pass, you might get four or more chassis. then go ahead and add appropriate factions to the game, and items, dekkles for those factions. it stands to be a real cash cow. as for balance we have the cauldron now who can bring that newtech into line, or even make recommendations as to what to add in order to fill gaps in the design space.

[LordNothing]

w0qj, on 03 July 2022 - 04:22 PM, said:

Please have IS Omnimechs with LE-Engines (Light Engines), and not XL-Engines please!

I would only buy IS Omnimechs with LE-Engines (Light Engines) that will not die upon side torso blown!




Wow, that's a lot more than before!
Last year only had 1 guy working on MWO if I understood it correctly...

It's getting out of hand...now there are ... THREE !!!

idk, just give the xl omnis torso speed quirks and raise the armor caps on sts. i can still put extra armor on the rear sts and apply skills and make it work. sometimes its good to get out of your comfort zone a little and building every mech exactly the same is boring.

Edited by LordNothing, 03 July 2022 - 05:39 PM.

[w0qj]

I suspect that MWO game engine is hardcoded for OmniMechs so that user cannot swap engines.

ie:
IS Omnimechs by design, you are stuck with either LE Light Engines, or XL Engines which explode upon side torso destroyed.

Personally I would much prefer the sustainability & safety if LE Light Engines, if there are no engine choices for IS OmniMechs...

- - - - - - - - - - - - -
To MWO: please prove me wrong, by letting IS OmniMechs have a user's choice of LE Light Engine, or XL Engine !!

[FupDup]

Barring PGI making their own "Mk. II" versions of Omnis with upgraded engines/internals, our other option is to just gigaquirk the snot out of them to make XLs workable. In the Cauldron era this actually has a chance of working (pre-Cauldron this would be LOLNO).

[R Valentine]

Only if PGI commits to keeping the arm weapon height of the Deva, the Seraph, and the Archangel close to the level of the shoulders. PGI has this obnoxious tendency to drop the arms down to the mech's ankles, which makes that particular mech completely unviable. Stop releasing mechs that are straight garbage. Release viable mechs or don't release anything at all.

[Nesutizale]

IS Omnis
I think they would work the same as Clan Omnis, so no engine swapping or Clans will get that option too. Its the same tech so either both can do it or neither.
Thats why I said I would guess a lot of players wouldn't use IS Omnis because of this.

Reactors & Crit
In general, lets drop the reactor explosion for side torsos for Clan and IS and just add more base heat. Not a heat spike just up the generated heat or lower heat dissapation and remove reactor exposions from side torso completly.
IS would still have the drawback of haveing more crit slots, so the reactor is easier to hit but it removes the imidiatly loss of the mech by takeing out the side torso.
The exception of this would be the center torso. If that is gone or your reactor takes 3 center hits, you are done.
Else its just a lot of heat that cripples you / reduces your effectiveness.

Not to the TT rules but frankly, I even thought of takeing that rule out of my TT games and replace it with just extra heat for each critical hit.

Adding new tech, decals, paints and stuff
Yes idealy that would happen but with, don't know 1 person doing the XML files with the Cauldron and two more people that don't have anything to do with any of that....yah its very unlikely to happen. Except someone here buys PGI up, dumps a lot of money and people on MWO and gets stuff running again.

Viable mechs
That is more a thing for meta gamers. You still got some collectors here and some who don't care. So no I think as long as they are holding up to the original artwork its fine. Meta gamer will play only a very few selected mechs anyway.

[Gasboy]

w0qj, on 03 July 2022 - 10:09 AM, said:

Omnimechs for Inner Sphere!

I might go for this, as long as the IS omnis are hobbled like the Clan ones.

[GrimReaper74]

w0qj, on 03 July 2022 - 10:09 AM, said:

May I suggest this, which is achievable already within the existing MWO engine, given enough manpower/resources (OK, everything but the combat pet part anyways):

- - - - - - - - - -
Let's dream big!

MWO Timeline Expansion (the first one since the Civil War timeline expansion)

Omnimechs for Inner Sphere!
New Mech chassis such as Stone Rhino!
New Hero Atlas with ballistic Left Torso *and* Right Torso!
IS gets advanced ATM!, Binary Lasers,
IS gets Silver bullet gauss, Binary lasers or Hyper assault gauss (credits: Beffa)

Sorry… the Hyper Assault Gauss is Clan tech only
https://www.sarna.ne..._Gauss_Rifle_40

[confracto]

It'll never happen.

IF any new chassis happen in MWO, it'll be safe bets; things that are popular nostalgia bait and something likely to perform well and something with a handful of decent variants.

Barely anyone knows about or cares about these WoB chassis. Honestly, I suspect most people have found out about them because of sharing/searching for chassis to put in MWO, and hadn't cared about them at all before. It makes for a risky sell, which the game can't afford right now.

briefly looking, they have a bunch of chassis in the set, and probably enough hardpoints and variants to be ok, but not great. There's a lot of weird tech on them that MWO doesn't have, but that just makes it a bit difficult to adapt, and was never going to hold them back, just be more work.

As for IS OMNIMECHS, it was always possible, but so many of them are a bad fit for this game. locked XL engines on an assault mech? that was never going to be popular. locked single heat sinks on a light? DOA. Internally, the discussion on what to do with them didn't get far because no one was sure how to solve these deficiencies without also buffing clan omnimechs. Also, any discussion with the community at large for solving these issues also didn't end with any hopeful solutions, and quickly devolved into an insistence that having the shiny thing was more important than maintaining the balance of the game (quirk it to hell to be viable). That's a possible solution, sure, but it never left anyone feeling that making IS OMNI's would be a good business decision, that it would sell a lot of mech packs, and recoup the larger cost than making anything else. It was always, even at the best of times going to be a gamble, a stretch, and a big risk.

Now, with the incredibly meager resources left on the MWO team, it's a dream, nothing more. New tech is probably farther out of reach than that. Everyone keeps looking at the crusader like 'oh, they're making mechs again like they used to', which couldn't be farther from the truth.

[Knownswift]

IS omnis would only work if they broke from including them as stock to address loadout concerns or quirked the bajesus out of them. This game already has a huge problem with things that don't work even with big quirks, why add gas to that fire?

If they were introduced at all, I'd rather see them built around some new build mechanic.

[Escef]

Celestials - No. They rely too much on tech not currently in the game, and many of them also mount a melee weapon. I could totally see them in a time-jumped DLC in MW5, though.

IS Omnis - Soft yes. Many of them would require significant quirks or some kind of Mk II version. The Strider, for example, with its single heat sinks would just not be competitive, or the fixed C3 slave and single sinks of the Owens. Similarly, the IS Omnis with XL engines and a sub 70 kph top speed would just not be viable. They'd require massive durability quirks and broader than normal CT hitboxes to offset the fixed XL engines. Some of them, however, would probably work without modification. In particular, the Raptor (a 25-ton mech that looks like the illegitimate love child of a Locust and an Osiris that mugged a Commando for its guns), Firestarter (yes, there's a 45-ton FS9 omnimech), the Men-Shen (a 55-ton mech that in many respects is a slightly slower version of the Shadow Cat), Blackhawk-Ku (a 60-ton IS version of the Nova), and the Hauptmann (a 95-ton monster with a 285 standard engine).

Mind you, my positions on these are also based on how currently available tech is implemented. If the fragility of IS XL engines were to be changed in MWO I'd have to seriously reconsider the viability of mechs like the Blackjack (yes, a Blackjack Omni), Avatar, Sunder, Perseus, and Templar.

EDIT: For further reading, if you are so inclined. List of Inner Sphere Omnimechs.

Edited by Escef, 04 July 2022 - 11:28 PM.