27 replies to this topic

[lazorbeamz]

Are ATM without TAG completely useless? What do you think.

I wish the ATMs could be used just like MRMs.

[w0qj]

TAG is used to overcome ECM foes, and to speed up target lock on regular non-ECM foes...

You can also increase your sensor range to speed up your target locks by considering to use BAP.

BAP is also used on missile boats (LRM/ATM boats) to continue missile lock onto enemies while nearby ECM enemies are nearby (without which you cannot target onto enemies under enemy ECM bubble).

Edited by w0qj, 07 August 2022 - 01:09 PM.

[martian]

lazorbeamz, on 07 August 2022 - 09:11 AM, said:

Are ATM without TAG completely useless? What do you think.
...

Well, it is like running LRMs without TAG ...

It is okay if enemy 'Mechs have no ECM, etc.

If enemy 'Mechs do have ECM (and you can reasonably expect that, with the current abundance of ECM-capable 'Mechs in MWO), then you will have a problem without TAG.

lazorbeamz, on 07 August 2022 - 09:11 AM, said:

...
I wish the ATMs could be used just like MRMs.

Technically, it is possible to fire ATMs without lock, but generally speaking, usually you would be just wasting your ammo.

[The6thMessenger]

Most locking weapons TBF, because ECM is typically everywhere these days.

[LordNothing]

on my spirit bear, i just used an erppc to break ecm, and had a volley on the way as soon as the lock completes.

tag? meh.

oh there is also a uac10, might as well fire that with the peeper.

Edited by LordNothing, 07 August 2022 - 06:20 PM.

[LordNothing]

martian, on 07 August 2022 - 01:02 PM, said:

Technically, it is possible to fire ATMs without lock, but generally speaking, usually you would be just wasting your ammo.

well there are a few situations where its useful, like firing into a murder ball for example. they all usually hit something for some damage. close into the 3-damage-bracket for maximal effect. best executed while also ducking into cover. you should never intentionally expose to that many targets. so its more of a get out of dodge thing.

[PocketYoda]

This is why you carry large lasers or srms to compliment the ATMs and Lrms and fight up the front.. you can do better with them.

[martian]

LordNothing, on 07 August 2022 - 06:31 PM, said:

well there are a few situations where its useful, like firing into a murder ball for example. they all usually hit something for some damage. close into the 3-damage-bracket for maximal effect. best executed while also ducking into cover. you should never intentionally expose to that many targets. so its more of a get out of dodge thing.

Sure, but how many of those missiles actually hit? It is better to make sure that every shot counts.

[lazorbeamz]

martian, on 07 August 2022 - 01:02 PM, said:

Well, it is like running LRMs without TAG ...

It is okay if enemy 'Mechs have no ECM, etc.

If enemy 'Mechs do have ECM (and you can reasonably expect that, with the current abundance of ECM-capable 'Mechs in MWO), then you will have a problem without TAG.



Technically, it is possible to fire ATMs without lock, but generally speaking, usually you would be just wasting your ammo.

Unlocked ATM is poor parody on srm or mrm.
I wish the primary mode was MRM like. Lock on should merely provide the maximum 2.5 damage per missile.

ATM right now not very usable imo.
Clan missiles feel like having a gap in capability that ATM cant fill properly.

Edited by lazorbeamz, 08 August 2022 - 10:59 AM.

[w0qj]

Giving ATM exponential decay damage below minimum 120m range (similar damage behavior to Clan LRM) would go a long way in alleviating ATM deficiencies... (currently ATM does "no damage" when foe is inside this minimum 120m range)...

As it is, all my Clan missile mechs have LRM for long range... (NCT-B with LRM, etc.)
and SRM for short range (Linebacker with SRM, MDD with SRM, etc.)
and none of my missile mechs have ATM equipped. None.

[lazorbeamz]

Worst part of ATM is lock on mechanic for me. In snub PPC meta it takes too long to lock on. Everyone shoots much faster. Weapon activates too late.

Edited by lazorbeamz, 08 August 2022 - 11:17 AM.

[martian]

lazorbeamz, on 08 August 2022 - 10:57 AM, said:

Unlocked ATM is poor parody on srm or mrm.
I wish the primary mode was MRM like. Lock on should merely provide the maximum 2.5 damage per missile.

ATMs in the original BattleTech can use three different ammo types that can be loaded into different ammo bins and switched by the MechWarrior at will:

• High-explosive ammo - 3 points of damage per missile, max range 270 m
  
• Standard ammo - 2 points of damage per missile, max range 450 m
  
• Extended-range ammo - 1 point of damage per missile, max range 810 m

Only the standard and ER missiles have 120 m minimum range, while the HE ammo suffers no such limitation.


Essentially, it is the player's choice of ammo that matters (before the mission and then during the game).

But since PGI has been unable to program the actual switchable ammmo for ATMs (and LBX autocannons), it came with the variable damage ATM ammo that merged all three ammo types into one with that 120 m minimum range, thus negating the greatest ATM selling point - its versatility.

lazorbeamz, on 08 August 2022 - 10:57 AM, said:

ATM right now not very usable imo.
Clan missiles feel like having a gap in capability that ATM cant fill properly.

Not many people use ATMs, at least since the ATM nerf a few months ago.

[lazorbeamz]

martian, on 08 August 2022 - 11:58 AM, said:

ATMs in the original BattleTech can use three different ammo types that can be loaded into different ammo bins and switched by the MechWarrior at will:

• High-explosive ammo - 3 points of damage per missile, max range 270 m
  
• Standard ammo - 2 points of damage per missile, max range 450 m
  
• Extended-range ammo - 1 point of damage per missile, max range 810 m

Only the standard and ER missiles have 120 m minimum range, while the HE ammo suffers no such limitation.




Essentially, it is the player's choice of ammo that matters (before the mission and then during the game).

But since PGI has been unable to program the actual switchable ammmo for ATMs (and LBX autocannons), it came with the variable damage ATM ammo that merged all three ammo types into one with that 120 m minimum range, thus negating the greatest ATM selling point - its versatility.



Not many people use ATMs, at least since the ATM nerf a few months ago.

Why did they have to make ATM solely lock on weapon though? I mean 99% lock on weapon.

Edited by lazorbeamz, 08 August 2022 - 12:02 PM.

[martian]

lazorbeamz, on 08 August 2022 - 12:02 PM, said:

Why did they have to make ATM solely lock on weapon though? I mean 99% lock on weapon.

Probably because one can not realistically expect to hit with unguided missiles on 800-900 metres.

I would say that MRMs are essentially dumbed down LRMs, but ATMs are essentially evolved LRMs.

[TELEFORCE]

I tried substituting SRMs for ATMs due to the short range and velocity of SRMs. Many of my targets wouldn't get closer than 310 meters to my Dire Wolf, so I swapped SRM24 for ATM21 and a Narc. It worked really well, plus I could always dumbfire the ATMs at close range in case ECM was causing problems for me.

I've since been running Streak SRM18 and a Narc and have had comparable results, though the ban on dumbfiring Streaks has been problematic sometimes (and that's a misinterpretation of the BattleTech rules itself).

[Knownswift]

Tag, if I'm not mistaken, still decreases the spread of ATMS and LRMs. So you probably want it.

[Aidan Crenshaw]

Knownswift, on 11 August 2022 - 01:43 PM, said:

Tag, if I'm not mistaken, still decreases the spread of ATMS and LRMs. So you probably want it.

You are, indeed, mistaken. TAG only reduces spread on indirect fire locks and you can't paint a target with TAG and have IDF at the same time.
https://mwomercs.com...atch-notes/2251

[LordNothing]

martian, on 08 August 2022 - 12:41 AM, said:

Sure, but how many of those missiles actually hit? It is better to make sure that every shot counts.

ive had situations where i landed them all. granted they hit 3+ different mechs. ive also gotten lucky kills on dumbfired atms. i dont like that missiles need to stare for a bit before they do damage, so i often dumbfire the first salvo in shorter ranges.

you are going to waste ammo, thats just the way missiles are. even with a lock a third of your missiles will hit dirt. it costs, but its usually not something you do the entire match. i think the damage/t is actually better than srms/lrms when used exclusively in the 3-damage bracket. it almost makes up for the spread, almost.

[Knownswift]

Aidan Crenshaw, on 11 August 2022 - 08:31 PM, said:

You are, indeed, mistaken. TAG only reduces spread on indirect fire locks and you can't paint a target with TAG and have IDF at the same time.
https://mwomercs.com...atch-notes/2251

This has actually been tested recently. You can ask on the MWOcomp discord for more information.

https://mwo.nav-alph...rmation-warfare

[Vellron2005]

lazorbeamz, on 07 August 2022 - 09:11 AM, said:

Are ATM without TAG completely useless? What do you think.

I wish the ATMs could be used just like MRMs.

Yes, it is completely useless on mechs without TAG or slow big mechs. Why? Because by the time you lock, you also have to expose to lock, and then fire missiles which are near-direct and only slightly indirect, and do their best damage in 300 meters. And by the time you do all this, the enemy has enough time to cut you in half.

ATMs are absolutely devastating when used on a fast medium, with TAG and jump jets. You jump, lock as quickly as possible, fire your load, and vanish behind cover.

I've done multiple 1000+ damage games like that just today.

But put a ATM120 on a Supernova, and you're loosing a torso most every time you try to expose enough to lock without TAG..

BTW.. you know you CAN dumb-fire them, right? (fire without lock)

Edited by Vellron2005, 13 August 2022 - 09:48 AM.