210 replies to this topic

[ScrapIron Prime]

and again, remember that a stomp is not a sign that PSR is broken, its how mechs take damage. If your flank gets stomped, you're down 0-3. Then the folks on that side of the field are facing two to one firepower coming in against them, and without communication you're looking at being down 1-6 very shortly. A 2-12 loss is a very quick step from that. This happens with reasonably balanced teams where one side gets the drop on the other or uses teamwork.

The big question then, is... why am I losing all the time? The only thing all those losses have in common... is me. Time to ask questions and do something differently!

[MrMadguy]

ScrapIron Prime, on 07 October 2022 - 05:27 AM, said:

and again, remember that a stomp is not a sign that PSR is broken, its how mechs take damage. If your flank gets stomped, you're down 0-3. Then the folks on that side of the field are facing two to one firepower coming in against them, and without communication you're looking at being down 1-6 very shortly. A 2-12 loss is a very quick step from that. This happens with reasonably balanced teams where one side gets the drop on the other or uses teamwork.

The big question then, is... why am I losing all the time? The only thing all those losses have in common... is me. Time to ask questions and do something differently!

Ehhh. I've used wrong term. Not stomp, but more like deathball. I.e. when there is no match - just enemy 'Mechs running at us and stomping us within 1-2 minutes from match start. I didn't want to touch this problem, but that's mostly due to OP 'Mechs, that just shouldn't play in Tier 4 - they should gain PSR quickly enough to get to Tier 1 fast.

[Tarl Cabot]

ScrapIron Prime, on 07 October 2022 - 05:27 AM, said:

and again, remember that a stomp is not a sign that PSR is broken, its how mechs take damage. If your flank gets stomped, you're down 0-3. Then the folks on that side of the field are facing two to one firepower coming in against them, and without communication you're looking at being down 1-6 very shortly. A 2-12 loss is a very quick step from that. This happens with reasonably balanced teams where one side gets the drop on the other or uses teamwork.

The big question then, is... why am I losing all the time? The only thing all those losses have in common... is me. Time to ask questions and do something differently!

The thing is, he is not losing all the time, he is actually breaking even on win/loss but his overall average MS is running at 218 MS over the past 12 months, all the while primarily piloting assaults 87% of 894 games as of last month. So he bounces around in Tier 4, or in my view, Militia level of play.

The playing field is also determine by the time of day, relative to the US. Smaller crowd, the potential for stomps, win or loss, to happen depending on the type of players dropping.

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 07 October 2022 - 05:53 AM.

[Flea King Fleappuccino]

There's the part we can somewhat control (how well we play), but when matchmaker gives you a potato team that hides in the low ground waiting to get killed, suicides one by one, or nascars nonstop, there's little anyone can do no matter how good they are. I wrote a script to check the combined avg match scores of each team, and it's not pretty.

Something can be done to at least attempt to balance teams, but it isn't being done.

[martian]

crazytimes, on 06 October 2022 - 10:52 PM, said:

Have you considered reaching out and asking for help at getting better? There's lots of discords where people would happily spend time helping you develop some better general gameplay that might help. If you're in 4 and still dropping, the problem just might be something that you yourself could change.

Some time ago, I told him the same thing:

martian, on 01 December 2021 - 08:11 AM, said:

MrMadguy, on 01 December 2021 - 07:23 AM, said:

This game is so bad now, that my K/D = 1. And K/D doesn't mean Kill/Death. It means Kill/Day.

Perhaps it is the right time to change your tactics, your 'Mech or both.

Should you need help, you can always ask in this section: New Player Help

I got the following reply:

MrMadguy, on 01 December 2021 - 10:11 AM, said:

A little bit too late for player, who plays since open beta.

Essentially, he does not want to adjust his gameplay, his 'Mechs and their loadouts, etc.
He wants the MWO changed to suit his personal taste.

To refresh your memory, this very thread - right from the first post - is just a repost of his December 2021 thread: #savetier3

You also tried to help him then.

[pattonesque]

pretty typical mechdad cycle

1. "The game is unfair because [some reason]"
2. "Have you tried doing X, Y, or Z?"
3. "No, and it's literally impossible for me to even consider doing this, and also you're a monster for suggesting it"
4. Repeat every two to six months

[Akamia Terizen]

I mean, as someone who loves stocks and lore builds, most of which are bracket builds, I too would like for them to be made more worthwhile.

That's not gonna happen for the foreseeable future, for better or for worse. I'm not even sure it's possible, really, without doing what Living Legends does and killing the MechLab outright. Maybe imposing some similar limitations as MW5Mercs, but I think it's far too late for that, and some people might riot.

That's why if you want to "get good", you build better ’Mechs.

That's why I don't bring my quick play ’Mechs to comp play or faction play. When I group up for quick play with people I know are much higher tier than I am, I bring my better ’Mechs instead of my normal ’Mechs.

This isn't a symptom of an unfair game. This is a logical consequence of a game built entirely around customizable player "characters".

So yeah... If you want true BattleMech freedom, OP, join me in Tier 5. You can play literally whatever you want and (probably) not die as fast as you would in a higher tier.

Edited by Akamia Terizen, 08 October 2022 - 07:47 AM.

[crazytimes]

Akamia Terizen, on 08 October 2022 - 07:40 AM, said:

So yeah... If you want true BattleMech freedom, OP, join me in Tier 5. You can play literally whatever you want and (probably) not die as fast as you would in a higher tier.

I think that's his problem- he is on the way to tier 5 and wants everything else to change to stop that slide. Well, everything except actually making any effort at all to play better.

[pattonesque]

crazytimes, on 08 October 2022 - 09:28 PM, said:

I think that's his problem- he is on the way to tier 5 and wants everything else to change to stop that slide. Well, everything except actually making any effort at all to play better.

when mechdads call people "tryhards" they really mean "people who are trying at all"

[pattonesque]

Ding Toast is Ready, on 09 October 2022 - 09:37 AM, said:

The overwhelming sentiment when it's voiced at all from people at your tier has been "we aren't even trying and we still beat you", or " you would have been better off powering down at the start" (that was from a VOIP comm by a T1 denigrating his own team).

Don't pretend T1 is full of understanding, forgiving, helpful players because that has largely NOT been my experience and people at your level of play manage to be unpleasant enough often enough that I am playing chassis I do not do well in specifically to avoid the vitriol.

I can't speak for your in-game experience but I greatly prefer to fight with and against people who know what they are doing. Farming some panicked dude who is waving his lasers around all six of my components before literally turning and fleeing is fun exactly once -- every other time it's boring. So when I encounter folks saying "I am having trouble with X, Y or Z" on these here forums, I generally try to suggest what they could do to improve.

Generally with new players this is met with consideration. With mechdads it is met with absolute shocked disbelief that anyone could even suggest the concept of doing something different and an insistence that there is no way they could even try to learn such arcane concepts as "use cover" and "try to focus on a single component" and "look at your minimap"

Edited by pattonesque, 09 October 2022 - 11:17 AM.

[BellatorMonk]

I keep seeing the term "Mechdad" and all I can picture is some pimply faced dork in Mommy's basement eating ghost pepper pork rinds validating their existence based on a 10 year old failing game.

[ScrapIron Prime]

Hey, I dunno how they're using "mechdad", but how I use it...

I'm 53. I was 15 when the Battletech board game was first released, and I've played EVERYTHING from Crescent Hawks Inception up to MW5. And _my_ 15 year old sons play Battletech with me on family game nights.

Long on the lore, a little short on the reflexes, and not at all upset when I come in second place in a shootout. I love the game, winning is secondary.

[Paul Hogan]

It's funny I actually find the tier 1 matches more enjoyable because the majority know the playstyle most appropriate for the map/mode and there is less randomness. So maybe the game is telling you it's time to improve your challenge level.

For instance: Solaris City Domination - Nascar used to be annoying in T3-T5 but T1 the team is often keen to hold the left side and set up a firing line which allows the Assaults to stay alive longer.

If you are in a slow mech in a T3 game, maybe ask for help at the start or say please don't leave us assaults behind etc.. It won't happen all the time but it may help if you are in a T1 match. Yes you have skilled opponents in T1, but you also have 11 other team mates that are likely to be skilled as well.

[martian]

Paul Hogan, on 09 October 2022 - 07:21 PM, said:

It's funny I actually find the tier 1 matches more enjoyable because the majority know the playstyle most appropriate for the map/mode and there is less randomness. So maybe the game is telling you it's time to improve your challenge level.

For instance: Solaris City Domination - Nascar used to be annoying in T3-T5 but T1 the team is often keen to hold the left side and set up a firing line which allows the Assaults to stay alive longer.

If you are in a slow mech in a T3 game, maybe ask for help at the start or say please don't leave us assaults behind etc.. It won't happen all the time but it may help if you are in a T1 match. Yes you have skilled opponents in T1, but you also have 11 other team mates that are likely to be skilled as well.

I have got a similar experience.

Nascar used to be so common in lower Tiers on Frozen City Classic, with the team invariably leaving their Assault lance behind to die to the incoming enemy team. In my T1 games, this rarely happens. Usually, the rest of the team goes and actually suports those Assaults.

[crazytimes]

Ding Toast is Ready, on 09 October 2022 - 09:37 AM, said:

Don't pretend T1 is full of understanding, forgiving, helpful players because that has largely NOT been my experience and people at your level of play manage to be unpleasant enough often enough that I am playing chassis I do not do well in specifically to avoid the vitriol.

You... know you can turn voice chat, all chat, and even team text chat off right? If communication offends you so deeply, you can embrace your desire to remain at whatever skill level you are and pretend it's a single player game. Alternatively, MW5 goes on sale regularly and you can just play a single player game if you are that anti social.

[ScrapIron Prime]

crazytimes, on 09 October 2022 - 10:23 PM, said:

You... know you can turn voice chat, all chat, and even team text chat off right?

Actually, I think that's part of the problem. VOIP is turned off for new players so you have to know to turn it ON. We're conditioning potatoes and n00bs to avoid communicating.

[foamyesque]

pattonesque, on 09 October 2022 - 11:16 AM, said:

Generally with new players this is met with consideration. With mechdads it is met with absolute shocked disbelief that anyone could even suggest the concept of doing something different and an insistence that there is no way they could even try to learn such arcane concepts as "use cover" and "try to focus on a single component" and "look at your minimap"

I mean, sure, those are all useful things, but I take exception to the idea that if you do them you're good enough to be dropping with the tiptop of T1, and that's what starts happening as soon as you move into T3.

[ScrapIron Prime]

foamyesque, on 10 October 2022 - 07:42 PM, said:

I mean, sure, those are all useful things, but I take exception to the idea that if you do them you're good enough to be dropping with the tiptop of T1, and that's what starts happening as soon as you move into T3.

Sure, but unlike all the other tiers, there’s a big difference between the bottom of Tier 1 and the top of Tier 1. Someone who hits the bottom of Tier 1 and keeps bouncing off is still gonna get farmed by the top competitive players.

[foamyesque]

ScrapIron Prime, on 10 October 2022 - 07:50 PM, said:

Sure, but unlike all the other tiers, there’s a big difference between the bottom of Tier 1 and the top of Tier 1. Someone who hits the bottom of Tier 1 and keeps bouncing off is still gonna get farmed by the top competitive players.

I'm not sure how that's relevant to the point? The issue is that in T3 you can be matched with anybody, from rando cadets and T5 scrublords clear through to the absolute top of T1. That makes for wild (and usually detrimental) inconsistencies in the play experience, and even if you personally are at least competent, that won't carry you if the MM decides that today, a JGx premade is dropping on the other side.

Edited by foamyesque, 10 October 2022 - 07:57 PM.

[martian]

foamyesque, on 10 October 2022 - 07:56 PM, said:

I'm not sure how that's relevant to the point? The issue is that in T3 you can be matched with anybody, from rando cadets and T5 scrublords clear through to the absolute top of T1. That makes for wild (and usually detrimental) inconsistencies in the play experience, and even if you personally are at least competent, that won't carry you if the MM decides that today, a JGx premade is dropping on the other side.

From what I have heard, the number of players in Tiers 3, 4 and 5 is much higher than the number of players in Tiers 1 and 2.

So although "you can be matched with anybody", I think that there is higher probability of having T3s, T4s and T5s in your games than getting much rarer T2s or T1s.