210 replies to this topic

[martian]

Primus Virjul Khaine, on 26 January 2024 - 09:06 AM, said:

The higher the tier the more competition you have with higher tier players(who are higher tier because they have been playing since the inception of MWO and not based on skill).

You are wrong.

The June 2020 reset moved all MWO players to Tier 3, regardless how long they had been playing MWO.

There are some players who have been playing MWO since its inception and they are in T5. On the other hand, there are some other players who have joined MWO relatively recently and yet they are in T1.

Primus Virjul Khaine, on 26 January 2024 - 04:34 PM, said:

And as consistent with this community: the high tier players or with old accounts jump on and defend the broken mechanics by accusing the player of failing. They just chime in to create confusion and add very little other than accusing the player.

Stating the truth is not "creating confusion".

Primus Virjul Khaine, on 26 January 2024 - 04:34 PM, said:

The game is a team based game; we lose as teams, not as players. If you are consistently on teams that lose your rank goes down until you are matched with players at the top of the previous tier; then you teeter back up and the cycle repeats.

You can earn the green arrow and the PSR rise even as a player of a defeated team.

That means that if you are so good as you think that you are, you will leave all those "unexperienced players" behind you soon, while advancing to higher Tiers.

[CrustyMech]

Tarl Cabot, on 27 January 2024 - 08:09 PM, said:

Originally the initial reset had everyone in T3 THEN PGI a few months later PGI changed it back to Tier 5, but only those players who didnt play during the initial reset were moved to Tier 5, as well as new players now start in T5. If you didnt play during the initial reset, then when came back you would have started in Tier 5.

As mentioned, each Tier is 1000 PSR points. If you are at Tier 3.5 then approximately 500 PSR points. This thread shows the PSR formulary and graph. Most players will earn/lost at most 10 PSR pts or lower, with the Top dog earning 25-30 PSR pts. As mentioned everyone is rated against the other 23 players in that match with the winning side having a small percentage boost in that final calculation. There is an online excel sheet which one can punch the numbers in for each match. I do it sometimes, sometimes when I get an UP arrow or Down arrow, shoot, even an Equal sign, when I think I shouldn't off, ie based on the game results that green/red/yellow sign looked off!! When I have checked at those times, besides the equal sign, the others I had either went up 1 PSR pt or down 1 PSR pt On one UP arrow I had a 145 MS (edited) and earned 2 PSR pts, iirc, and 14 players moved up and 1 broke even. Reds base rushed They won the game but I still moved up with that measly 145 MS pt.


https://mwomercs.com...ity-version-10/


https://mwomercs.com...65#entry6523065

Thanks very much for the comprehensive answer!

[Sir LRMsalot]

There are basically 3 match 'buckets'

Tier 1-3
Tier 2-4
Tier 3-5

The 'problem' with Tier 3 is that you can be in any of them. One match you can feel like an MWO God while farming T5s, the next match you can play exactly the same way and get uber-farmed by T1s.

[Curccu]

Sir LRMsalot, on 28 January 2024 - 07:43 PM, said:

There are basically 3 match 'buckets'

Tier 1-3
Tier 2-4
Tier 3-5

The 'problem' with Tier 3 is that you can be in any of them. One match you can feel like an MWO God while farming T5s, the next match you can play exactly the same way and get uber-farmed by T1s.

True BUT there is a lot less T1 and T2 players than rest so chances are that you will mostly encounter T3-5 players.

[pbiggz]

Curccu, on 29 January 2024 - 02:04 AM, said:

True BUT there is a lot less T1 and T2 players than rest so chances are that you will mostly encounter T3-5 players.

Also the gulf between low end T1 and, say, D A T A is probably bigger than the gulf between top end T2 and T4. Even if you are a T3 getting matched with a T1, in all likelihood, that person is closer to you in skill than he is to a top player.

[Saved By The Bell]

Game is unplayable for me, so I am leaving. Fighting against elitist premade so hard.

See you in next MWO, may be.

[Ignatius Audene]

Saved By The Bell, on 29 January 2024 - 11:15 AM, said:

Game is unplayable for me, so I am leaving. Fighting against elitist premade so hard.

See you in next MWO, may be.

So w/l 1.0 K/d 1.0. looks pretty solid.

I get the impression "everyone returning fire or god prevents is better than me is filthy tryhard" is kinda en vogue now.

Judging bye your number of matches played u are just suffering from Mwo overload. Just take a break and maybe try something new when u return (comp, FP, group play don't know your current pattern)

Edited by Ignatius Audene, 29 January 2024 - 12:00 PM.

[Sir LRMsalot]

Yeah, the PSR system starts to break down badly in T1. The PSR cap is too low.

You can be an 85%-90% jarls player and full bar T1 pretty easily. I know 80% players who are drifting around low-mid T1.

And yet the skill difference between an 80% and a 98% player is massive, and the difference between a 98% player and a 99.9% player is also massive.

A T3 player fighting T5s in one match, then 99%+ players in the next match is going to have an extremely 'random' experience.

Edited by Sir LRMsalot, 29 January 2024 - 01:46 PM.

[Alex Morgaine]

Mister Blastman, on 23 September 2022 - 08:35 AM, said:

The Underhive never goes away...

Ah classics are always good

[Besh]

RickySpanish, on 27 January 2024 - 03:33 PM, said:

Some team based sports games absolutely do have snowball effects. One of the most notable I know of is test Cricket, where a 5 game series plays out with not only important meta factors like weather, time of day and pitch quality, but also the team's morale. Knock a few good players out or attrit the stamina of the team, and a collapse is common where the remaining players are stumped in a short while. It's actually quite exciting to follow. Test matches usually span a day or two, so it's interesting to watch these effects in motion where one team (England is especially good at it) makes a surprising comeback or dismal collapse.

Right .

I don't have cricket on my Radar . Where I live, its just not a thing .

[Arnetheus]

Sir LRMsalot, on 29 January 2024 - 12:08 PM, said:

Yeah, the PSR system starts to break down badly in T1. The PSR cap is too low.

The unfortunate effect of a low population game.
If you bottleneck high tier MM too much, you will create a bleeding effect of top players leaving the game as soon as they get there, as they realise matches now take 30 minutes to find.
Over time, more and more players will be naturally pushed up to replace those who leave and the scenario repeats itself.

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...and the difference between a 98% player and a 99.9% player is also massive.

Not really. Jarls is not a good indicator for people above 95% i'd say. It can tell you who's bad but it can't tell you who's actually good.
There are ways to gamble the system and get 99%, as was proven plenty of times by average players.
So you can easily have a 1v1 where say a 96% beats 99% with ease. Because that 99-er is just a statpadder.

Saved By The Bell, on 29 January 2024 - 11:15 AM, said:

Game is unplayable for me, so I am leaving. Fighting against elitist premade so hard.

Oh no, not the occasional good premade! As opposed to any other worse premade you get to meet more often.
Yet another one fails at self-awareness check.

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Vae Victis

Ironic.

Meep Meep, on 26 January 2024 - 03:39 PM, said:

I haven't seen any evidence even tippy top players can turbo to t1 from t5 in 70 games.

Then search better.

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This one time in band camp someone a long time ago did it in 118 games in a spider but that was a far different game with a far different meta.

It took 108 games, playing a variety of Spiders.
Playing one of a few Spider builds today would be just as easy. Especially if choosing NA prime for it, lots of time to farm stationary targets.

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In the current meta? Maybe 150ish games if you really are gud and exclusively playing meta mechs.

Considering the Spider is not exactly a farming machine, it should be 100 games at most in a better mech, "if you really are gud".
Although Spider does get a bunch of match score for free, being a light.

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Iirc TTB's seal clubbing trial mech series he is still in t3 maybe just edging into t2 and he has played around 70 games so far.

So, TTB playing trials for content. I fail to see how this is relevant to "tippy top players turboing to T1" scenario.

[East Indy]

LordNothing, on 16 September 2022 - 08:05 AM, said:

the game is saying that you are simply too good for lower tiers. i mean sure you can run a bunch of crappy builds and get back to that t4 safe space in no time. but i think its better to save the lower tiers for the players who actually belong there. t3 is a very good place to be.

Having taken an alt up the ranks, so far it seems Tier 3 is where meta play starts to take over. Really, the difference is less skill and more philosophy. Tier 5 and Tier 4 had more 'Mech/build variety (not bad, just maybe not sweat-optimized) and teams tended to stay together while traversing the map. Now I see rushing to that one grid square, snipey-snipe damage farmers...I really do think people in lower tiers choose to play in a certain way that, ultimately, makes them happier.

[LordNothing]

East Indy, on 30 January 2024 - 10:14 AM, said:

Having taken an alt up the ranks, so far it seems Tier 3 is where meta play starts to take over. Really, the difference is less skill and more philosophy. Tier 5 and Tier 4 had more 'Mech/build variety (not bad, just maybe not sweat-optimized) and teams tended to stay together while traversing the map. Now I see rushing to that one grid square, snipey-snipe damage farmers...I really do think people in lower tiers choose to play in a certain way that, ultimately, makes them happier.

i agree, id be t2 at least if i only ran meta. been up there many times. usually come back when i got new mechs to level or when im trying to use my seldom used mechs, or when an event requires i do something stupid (like when im fed up and want to get the event over by doing event objectives at the expense of the match, sorry team). playing infrequently certainly doesn't help much either.

Edited by LordNothing, 30 January 2024 - 10:58 AM.

[torsie]

Saved By The Bell, on 29 January 2024 - 11:15 AM, said:

Game is unplayable for me, so I am leaving. Fighting against elitist premade so hard.

See you in next MWO, may be.

Nooo dont leave, I need someone who can win games for me

[Sir LRMsalot]

Arnetheus, on 30 January 2024 - 05:49 AM, said:

Oh no, not the occasional good premade! As opposed to any other worse premade you get to meet more often.
Yet another one fails at self-awareness check.

I wouldn't be so flippant. The last time I played (5 matches), all 5 were stomps, and 4 out of the 5 had comp premades.

Yeah, maybe I got unlucky and/or got synced with one of these groups.

Either way, I uninstalled and haven't played since.

[Meep Meep]

Arnetheus, on 30 January 2024 - 05:49 AM, said:

Then search better.


It took 108 games, playing a variety of Spiders.
Playing one of a few Spider builds today would be just as easy. Especially if choosing NA prime for it, lots of time to farm stationary targets.


Considering the Spider is not exactly a farming machine, it should be 100 games at most in a better mech, "if you really are gud".
Although Spider does get a bunch of match score for free, being a light.


So, TTB playing trials for content. I fail to see how this is relevant to "tippy top players turboing to T1" scenario.

Ok show me who did it in 70 games. Also how would any of you know first hand anyways? You claim to only ever have had one account? Have you tried a run from t5 to t1 yourself? I find your arguments lacking credibility tbh. Also TTB is rank 230 and 99.19% percentile. I'd say thats tippy top t1. So ruthlessly clubbing seals in reworked trial mechs for content is ok? Alright, I gotcha then!

Edited by Meep Meep, 30 January 2024 - 02:44 PM.

[Alexander of Macedon]

East Indy, on 30 January 2024 - 10:14 AM, said:

Having taken an alt up the ranks, so far it seems Tier 3 is where meta play starts to take over. Really, the difference is less skill and more philosophy. Tier 5 and Tier 4 had more 'Mech/build variety (not bad, just maybe not sweat-optimized) and teams tended to stay together while traversing the map. Now I see rushing to that one grid square, snipey-snipe damage farmers...I really do think people in lower tiers choose to play in a certain way that, ultimately, makes them happier.

A lot of it's definitely down to not playing meta builds, either intentionally or through ignorance.

If I only ran my "I like how this build on this 'mech feels even though it doesn't get huge damage numbers most of the time" stuff I sure as hell wouldn't be in T1. No way in hell am I going to consistently pull 600+ in a CDA-3C with a HPPC, 4x LMG, LAMS, and XL300, but **** me if it isn't fun to play.

[Arnetheus]

Sir LRMsalot, on 30 January 2024 - 11:21 AM, said:

I wouldn't be so flippant.

Flippant about what? The basic odds of facing frequent average or bad groups vs lower chance of facing good groups?

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The last time I played (5 matches), all 5 were stomps, and 4 out of the 5 had comp premades.
Yeah, maybe I got unlucky and/or got synced with one of these groups.

If you're dropping solo, then yes, it's up to luck which side you end up on. Since lobby MM doesn't exist.
Hearing "comp premades" tells me nothing, since most of the few actual good comp teams barely play QP together at all these days.
Most of the time, it's random people seeing a group of the same unit tags and being afraid for no reason, having no idea who it actually is.

Quote

Either way, I uninstalled and haven't played since.

Your call. Any PvP game with non-ranked lobbies and absent MM are not for you then, that's ok.
Considering Russ admitted to having no interest in fixing this.

Meep Meep, on 30 January 2024 - 01:19 PM, said:

Ok show me who did it in 70 games.

Nah, search better. I can't be arsed joining a discord i'm not a regular of, just to grab a screen for you.
Rub those braincells at least a little bit, before you say "i've never seen this".
The original take of "in about 70 games" still stands.

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Also how would any of you know first hand anyways?

Because i know several people who ran alts for experiments, including the Spider guy?

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You claim to only ever have had one account?

I've never claimed it. You're making things up again, as usual.

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Have you tried a run from t5 to t1 yourself?

One time. After PGI changed the beginner bonuses and PSR reset. Wanted to test the first batch of trials in 2021, both in QP and FP.
Tested a few new assault builds in QP, got bored fast, stopped using it.
It took about 90-100 games to get to T1, maximum farm wasn't the goal, just kill mechs to win.

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I find your arguments lacking credibility tbh.

I'm not here to change your mind specifically. You might as well join the flat-earthers club at this point.
I'm just stating a couple of facts along the thread's conversation.

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Also TTB is rank 230 and 99.19% percentile. I'd say thats tippy top t1.

- Not once did TTB break 230 on his main acc over the past year, he's floating at 259-462 range.
I guess you are also bad at reading the Jarls.

- You shifted the goalpoast, in a really clumsy manner. Must be your usual bad reading comprehension.
First you say "tippity top players rushing to T1", now you say "tippity top T1". Those are not the same.
Sure, count TTB as second example if you want so. He doesn't fit in the first example though.
Which means, again, i fail to see how TTB using trials for content is relevant to "tippity top players turboing to T1" scenario. Do you also not understand that trials would be subpar for that?

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So ruthlessly clubbing seals in reworked trial mechs for content is ok? Alright, I gotcha then!

Apparently it is, for some of the MWO content makers.
And if you're implying i am somehow supporting the notion, then your brain trully works in mysterious ways to come to that conclusion.

I can see how it could be educational for newer players though, if presented and edited correctly. Something TTB is not usually known for.

[Meep Meep]

Arnetheus, on 31 January 2024 - 01:33 AM, said:

One time. After PGI changed the beginner bonuses and PSR reset. Wanted to test the first batch of trials in 2021, both in QP and FP.
Tested a few new assault builds in QP, got bored fast, stopped using it.
It took about 90-100 games to get to T1, maximum farm wasn't the goal, just kill mechs to win.


I'm not here to change your mind specifically. You might as well join the flat-earthers club at this point.
I'm just stating a couple of facts along the thread's conversation.


- Not once did TTB break 230 on his main acc over the past year, he's floating at 259-462 range.
I guess you are also bad at reading the Jarls.

- You shifted the goalpoast, in a really clumsy manner. Must be your usual bad reading comprehension.
First you say "tippity top players rushing to T1", now you say "tippity top T1". Those are not the same.
Sure, count TTB as second example if you want so. He doesn't fit in the first example though.
Which means, again, i fail to see how TTB using trials for content is relevant to "tippity top players turboing to T1" scenario. Do you also not understand that trials would be subpar for that?


Apparently it is, for some of the MWO content makers.
And if you're implying i am somehow supporting the notion, then your brain trully works in mysterious ways to come to that conclusion.

I can see how it could be educational for newer players though, if presented and edited correctly. Something TTB is not usually known for.

I don't believe you.

I think you just make this stuff up on the fly because you like to argue. Why? Dunno, but its common amongst certain higher level pvp players. Eve online is chock full of the type which is why I can sniff it out so easily here. The grandstanding and moralizing on the forums there make this place look like a kiddy care center.

As to TTB the overall rank as of the time I checked was this.

Overview for: TTB

Rank 230

Percentile 99.19%

[Besh]

Meep Meep, on 31 January 2024 - 03:46 AM, said:

I don't believe you.

I think you just make this stuff up on the fly because you like to argue. Why? Dunno, but its common amongst certain higher level pvp players. Eve online is chock full of the type which is why I can sniff it out so easily here. The grandstanding and moralizing on the forums there make this place look like a kiddy care center.

As to TTB the overall rank as of the time I checked was this.

Overview for: TTB

Rank 230

Percentile 99.19%

A check on his stats right now says exactly what MeepMeep posted .