87 replies to this topic

[crazytimes]

VeeOt Dragon, on 24 November 2022 - 09:33 PM, said:

i honestly find T3 to be the most enjoyable. you have enough skilled players that mot games are not complete cluster ***** (you still get bad ones don't get me wrong and you know when you are going up against a T1 4 man that its automatic stomp) and you still get to see odd r unusual builds. it seems the higher you get in tier the more boring things become. you see the same meta mechs over and over with the same meta builds. seriously if the over competitive try hards really want to prove how good they are pull the same numbers with a stock build or some oddball concoction.

as for FP the main reason most new players avoid it like the plague that it is is because they don't want to get farmed by 12 man comp groups over and over or deal with the toxic crap they spew when you would rather play something fun (though still good) instead of the same 3 meta builds over and over again.

That's a lot of words to say you're happy being average and hate anyone better than you. No judgement at all for you being average- after all, average is the normal. Hating anyone that dares to play better than you is a bit of a negative approach to online gaming though.

If you are happy with your skill level, then just embrace it. Enjoy the playstyle you like. If you aren't happy with it, then do something about it rather than just insulting half the player base because they dare to play okay.

[1Exitar1]

I'm currently in Tier 1 and still see people running around like kids let out to recess. So, it's not just the tier 4's & 5's doing it. All I can say is to do your best, call out enemies and try and work with your team mates.

Above all: Try and have fun!

[VeeOt Dragon]

1Exitar1, on 24 November 2022 - 10:07 PM, said:

Above all: Try and have fun!

this right here^^

i play to have fun. if that means i am bringing an LRM-40 (4 ER SL) Catapult or one of my many Ubies than that is what i will bring. i find chasing the Meta boring and unimaginative. just copy/paste what someone else came up with instead of figuring out something for yourself.

i know my own shortcomings and i accept them. (like i am still not very good at torso twisting even after many years of play so i don't use IS XLs hardly ever).

i am constantly experimenting with new builds and i couldn't give 2 shits about some worthless stat board, about W/L rates, or K/D. as long as i am having fun none of that **** matters (i have just as much fun in an 11-12 loss as i do in any win. hell i often feel bad for the other guys if am on the winning side of a stomp)

i tend to more often than not be in the upper 3rd or 1/2 of a match (though i do get those off matches where i don't break 100dmg for some damn reason, had one of those last week. for two matches i couldn't seem to hit the broad side of barn. switched to one of my LRM boats after that and things went back to enjoyable.)

i don't hate anyone better than me as there is always someone better, just don't be an Elitist ***** about it is all i am saying. all that does is chase off the new players this game desperately needs to keep going. (also T1 comp elitists aren't half the player base but rather a very small percentage.)

(i also have hand tremors so precise targeting can be a pain sometimes and almost impossible at others. hence why i have a number of LRM boats in my stable of many mechs.)

Edited by VeeOt Dragon, 24 November 2022 - 10:37 PM.

[GoatHILL]

I am talking about tier 1 games Flyby and Darian are in the same drops all the time.

How are we seeing so many terrible, no bad, terrible players all the time.

[Duke Falcon]

Quote

How are we seeing so many terrible, no bad, terrible players all the time.

Those are the vengefull spirits summoned by forum-trolls sacrificing virgin-vampire goth-girl blood for the Ancient Gods Beyond.

Or, is just a kiss! From Mother (Mis)Fortune!

Or both dueling over of your location right now. But storm either go away or you get bored by it and have a brake to return when... Uhmmm... Situation may whatever? Not tell sit' would be better, ja? I'm afraid to make such testimonies...

[Darian DelFord]

GoatHILL, on 25 November 2022 - 12:57 AM, said:

I am talking about tier 1 games Flyby and Darian are in the same drops all the time.

How are we seeing so many terrible, no bad, terrible players all the time.

Yeah I drop at different parts of the day depending on my work schedule. However I notice the same people on during those times. I have a video of 3 separate drops back to back to back. Same exact 24 people just randomized all three times. I was on the losing side all three times. It was quite comical.

I see alot of the try hards, get destroyed by a bunch of no names and vice versa. The population is dwindling quickly, every month there are fewer and fewer active users. Really makes me wonder how PGI is making any money, since MW 5 was the flop that it was.

But alas, I just play to have fun and see how many assault players I can kill so they come and start a Light Mech is OP thread

[Novakaine]

Yeah kinda sad people who don't break 300 complaining about me bringing a lurm Battlemaster.
Claiming how I was hiding in the rear.
There was no rear because they all had their own grid square dying alone.
Frontline?
I was the d*** frontline.

[Flyby215]

GoatHILL, on 25 November 2022 - 12:57 AM, said:

I am talking about tier 1 games Flyby and Darian are in the same drops all the time.

How are we seeing so many terrible, no bad, terrible players all the time.

I should have been more careful with my language. I didn't intend to suggest that "terrible" players are in the same matches as me "all the time". I just wanted to point out that sometimes it feels like the matchmaker is deciding matches far more than anything else - to the point that it sometimes becomes predictable, and of course, frustrating.

Sort of like how Darian points out, have 3 matches of the same players but reorganized each match, still being on the losing team all 3 times. The question of "am I the problem?" obviously arises. Sometimes it can be dismissed; other times it requires self-reflection. It feels bad, regardless, especially when 3 losses becomes 6 losses becomes 10 losses, and that 1:1 average slips well below expectations, through no fault of your own.

At any rate, I didn't mean to thrash on players who may be learning the game or trying to have fun in their own way. I just wanted to let you know you're not alone in the feeling that you're being forced to carry or that the matchmaker is deciding the outcome far more than you are able to influence.

[Bulletsponge0]

GoatHILL, on 24 November 2022 - 02:00 AM, said:

How are so many players so bad?

I am not a great player I am average, but 75% of my games I know which team will win at the match maker screen.

I played for 2+ hours tonight and won 2 games the rest of the team wondered around aimlessly are took up a position of 800m with a med laser mech.

How are players this bad, why does the match maker seem to put all of these players on one team with one or 2 ok players and the other team is stacked with half a dozen (non grouped) truly tier 1 players?

I want to win matches KDR is meaningless, I'd be happy with a w/l ratio of 1 but I am not good enough to carry 6-8 window lickers.

Does Vyx know you're talking about him like this?

[GoatHILL]

Bulletsponge0, on 25 November 2022 - 09:29 PM, said:

Does Vyx know you're talking about him like this?

Shhh!!!

If only I could get a few more Vyxs on my team we might win some matches.

[Bud Crue]

GoatHILL, on 25 November 2022 - 12:57 AM, said:

I am talking about tier 1 games Flyby and Darian are in the same drops all the time.

How are we seeing so many terrible, no bad, terrible players all the time.

Honestly I think it is a combination of what Louis said above regarding quality players having left, but also because you have a remaining population of those who are trying but are incompetent/don't understand the subtleties of a game this old, and a lot of us old hats who never really cared about the meta but got to T1 under the old "tier is an XP bar" standards and were never forced to pay attention to meta changes.

What I mean by this later part is you have/had a LOT of mediocre players (relatively speaking) in this game who were T1 for years and who got to T1 by time played rather than skill and so they never cared about the meta or playing with "skill" in the first place and have never bothered to "git gud" since they made it to T1 despite their mediocrity. Some of us in this group have finally started to drop out of T1 and until we make it to T4 you actual T1 players get to live with us in your normal, everyday MM is picking by tier game play.

I only know 1 single player who was T1 with me from before the tier system changes who has made it to T4 by their normal game play, so at least by that anecdote, you true T1 players are going to suffer our incompetence for a long time and there isn't anything any of us can do about it (also, that T4 player I mentioned? Thanks to the death of GQ and the joy that is the soup we all play in, we regularly drop as a 4-man* with two people who are still T1 (they play a lot more than just with us), and my T2 (soon to be T3), so the MM is going to average us out to T2, and thus true T1 players are going to have to suffer our presence even longer than you otherwise might have. Cheers!

*as an aside this delusion some of you have that group = skilled players is nonsense and always has been. We may be a group, but because we are playing together to chat and screw around we often are doing our own things, or worse are doing something stupid/we perceive as funny while doing our own things.

Edited by Bud Crue, 26 November 2022 - 05:52 AM.

[martian]

PocketYoda, on 24 November 2022 - 07:36 PM, said:

I think i'd be a far better pilot if i wasn't in Australia with terrible ping and ADSL2.. I do pretty ok myself and i'm not super competitive.. The modern meta isn't really for me though.. sniping bores me to tears.. I also tend to play stupid mechs for fun and to tank my PSR lol.

It is okay, then. PSR working as intended.

PocketYoda, on 24 November 2022 - 07:36 PM, said:

Also as a Battletech tabletop fan seeing the crazy light mechs and oversized stupid huge scale mechs in this game grates on me.. so i'm on a break.

Many light 'Mechs in BattleTech fluff are also much smaller than for example heavy and assault 'Mechs.

[Duke Falcon]

Quote

Many light 'Mechs in BattleTech fluff are also much smaller than for example heavy and assault 'Mechs.

Not to mention "super lights" like this: https://www.sarna.ne...merald_Harrier)
Or almost mech-sized BAs like this: https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Kanazuchi
There are overlaps in BT...

[Weeny Machine]

GoatHILL, on 24 November 2022 - 02:00 AM, said:

How are so many players so bad?

I am not a great player I am average, but 75% of my games I know which team will win at the match maker screen.

I played for 2+ hours tonight and won 2 games the rest of the team wondered around aimlessly are took up a position of 800m with a med laser mech.

How are players this bad, why does the match maker seem to put all of these players on one team with one or 2 ok players and the other team is stacked with half a dozen (non grouped) truly tier 1 players?

I want to win matches KDR is meaningless, I'd be happy with a w/l ratio of 1 but I am not good enough to carry 6-8 window lickers.

There are 2 other reasons besides skill which affect the matchmaking:
1. Low playerbase - the matchmaker opens the valves at one point and takes what it gets
2. groups - our beloved pro groups with their meta mechs throw balance out of the window. Rolls are boring as hell for both sides, but if you need to seal-club pugs to feel good and valueable...

[Duke Falcon]

Weeny Machine, on 26 November 2022 - 11:07 AM, said:

There are 2 other reasons besides skill which affect the matchmaking:
1. Low playerbase - the matchmaker opens the valves at one point and takes what it gets
2. groups - our beloved pro groups with their meta mechs throw balance out of the window. Rolls are boring as hell for both sides, but if you need to seal-club pugs to feel good and valueable...

No-no-no! Let me incorrect you here before someone would ban you about your reveal of serious affecting factors better kept hidden!

1. Excellent playerbase delighted by excellent MM!
2. Groups whom keep excellent playerbase alive because of excellent MM!
3. Everything else falls between a black hole and a non-singular string among two parallel universes...

[RockmachinE]

Duke Falcon, on 26 November 2022 - 11:06 AM, said:

Or almost mech-sized BAs like this: https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Kanazuchi

That thing is goofy man, 2 tonnes at 10Kp/h. It wouldn't even get out of spawn ...

The problem with MM is that people expect some sort of miraculous completely even balance. Its just not possible. Even with other games with skill based match making you get stomps. And those are mechanically really simple games like Counter Strike.

The issue with MWO is that there's simply too many factors, the MM can't take into account any sort build bias. Its not doable. One team might be heavily biased against the other simply by builds alone. One team might have mechs that are more suited to a certain map type and so forth. People might be running non meta or sub optimal builds. You can't code this. There's no way to account for this.

The other is the nature of MWO, once a team is up by 3-4 mechs you achieve a critical cascade effect, where its really hard for the other team to recover from it and it almost always results in a stomp. Even with a larger playerbase you'd still get stomps, things might be more even, but I'm afraid it would not be very different.

Just roll with it, roll and be rolled. Its just the way the game is.

[Flyby215]

GoatHILL, on 26 November 2022 - 02:29 AM, said:

Shhh!!!

If only I could get a few more Vyxs on my team we might win some matches.

A team of Marauders? That'd be scary!

Also, I miss playing against you guys. Matches were always interesting and usually toss-ups as to who would win. Good times.

On topic: Friday night went some 10 wins to a single loss; tonight was reversed; about 2 wins to 9 losses. Guess it balances out sometimes.

[Weeny Machine]

Louis Brofist, on 26 November 2022 - 01:00 PM, said:

That thing is goofy man, 2 tonnes at 10Kp/h. It wouldn't even get out of spawn ...

The problem with MM is that people expect some sort of miraculous completely even balance. Its just not possible. Even with other games with skill based match making you get stomps. And those are mechanically really simple games like Counter Strike.

The issue with MWO is that there's simply too many factors, the MM can't take into account any sort build bias. Its not doable. One team might be heavily biased against the other simply by builds alone. One team might have mechs that are more suited to a certain map type and so forth. People might be running non meta or sub optimal builds. You can't code this. There's no way to account for this.

The other is the nature of MWO, once a team is up by 3-4 mechs you achieve a critical cascade effect, where its really hard for the other team to recover from it and it almost always results in a stomp. Even with a larger playerbase you'd still get stomps, things might be more even, but I'm afraid it would not be very different.

Just roll with it, roll and be rolled. Its just the way the game is.

I concur. However, it is mind boggling that they added groups into QP which make things even worse. I mean no pvp game I know of has so far even halfway successfully implemented a mixed PUG and Grouped queue. Even games which are, compared to MWO's myriad of factors, easy to balance like WoW or the extinct Warhammer Online pvp (the latter which was made for pvp unlike WoW) stopped at one point and seperated the queues. Why should it work here, especially since the groups are just thrown into the pool and that's it?

Fun fact: guess what happened to the group queues once they were seperated from the pugs in aforementioned games? They dwindled and died. Despite people claimed when the queues were mixed that they wanted only to "play with friends" and "we actually seek competetion". What does it say us about not all but apparently most of those people?

Fun fact 2:

It seems other people do not like to bear that crap any longer as well. See Steam player chart

Month.........Avg. Players......Gain.....% Gain........Peak Players

last 30Days...486.1..............-59,9....- 10,97%......875
October.........546.................-69,8.....-11,33%......966

Edited by Weeny Machine, 27 November 2022 - 01:44 AM.

[Gagis]

Countless shooters have mixed queues by default. The exepctions tend to be more single-user focused games rather than team based games.

MWO is a team based shooter.

However, it'd still be cool to have a group queue you could opt in to by launching as a one-man group, and that allowed groups up to 12.

[Nathan White]

GoatHILL, on 24 November 2022 - 02:00 AM, said:

How are so many players so bad?

MWO its a old game for a old people. The average age of the audience is over 40 years. As you get older, your reflexes and cognition don't get better.