87 replies to this topic

[RockmachinE]

Nathan White, on 27 November 2022 - 04:26 AM, said:

MWO its a old game for a old people. The average age of the audience is over 40 years. As you get older, your reflexes and cognition don't get better.

MWO doesn't need quick reflexes, its a very slow game by any standards. Its 95% timing, positioning, situational awareness and resource management - 5% twitch.

[Duke Falcon]

Nathan White, on 27 November 2022 - 04:26 AM, said:

MWO its a old game for a old people. The average age of the audience is over 40 years. As you get older, your reflexes and cognition don't get better.

Hehe! I'm still under 40!

Oh, wait!

And still not dominate the whole game because of my young skills and reflexes?!
Sucked so much...

Quote

MWO doesn't need quick reflexes, its a very slow game by any standards. Its 95% timing, positioning, situational awareness and resource management - 5% twitch.

And anyone thinks a real battle is all about reflexes? Battles are slow like game. Otherwise one side would run into a meatgrinder and irrevocably slaughtered. Noone wants that even if we consider that that is the basic russian military tactic since... Since Peter the First?!

History derails everything!

[martian]

Nathan White, on 27 November 2022 - 04:26 AM, said:

MWO its a old game for a old people. The average age of the audience is over 40 years. As you get older, your reflexes and cognition don't get better.

What data regarding "the average age of the audience" do you have?

[Nathan White]

martian, on 27 November 2022 - 11:02 AM, said:

What data regarding "the average age of the audience" do you have?

You just can check old threads like that:
https://mwomercs.com...e-mechwarriors/
https://mwomercs.com...os-demographic/
https://www.reddit.c...f_a_mwo_player/

And make some corrections, because it was be 8-10 years ago.

Addressing all those who say that reflexes are not important - well, yes, of course, that is why most of this game players cannot do damage even with laser weapons (the most simple weapon), because they cannot aim well on the target.

[RockmachinE]

Nathan White, on 27 November 2022 - 11:33 AM, said:

You just can check old threads like that:
https://mwomercs.com...e-mechwarriors/
https://mwomercs.com...os-demographic/
https://www.reddit.c...f_a_mwo_player/

And make some corrections, because it was be 8-10 years ago.

Addressing all those who say that reflexes are not important - well, yes, of course, that is why most of this game players cannot do damage even with laser weapons (the most simple weapon), because they cannot aim well on the target.

No we say that because we've actually played games that are fast.

[sycocys]

Just popped in a few days ago for a few hours to see how the game came along, tier 4 which I'm apparently in now (not a problem after a hiatus) pretty much played as expected other than the ridiculous amount of rage players in that range of selection had. Was kind of silly to be honest.

Its nice to see the old and even some new maps in the game, super surprising they never implemented a way to dynamically reduce the amount of players per match and select appropriate maps to speed up the drop times. Honestly it probably wouldn't hurt to have lower tiers have lower player counts in their matches anyhow. It would probably allow them to develop their game skills without most of the frustration of getting alpha'd by 8-10 mechs deathballed up as they learn the skills and maps.

*I see I lost enough to drop to tier 5 lol.

Edited by sycocys, 27 November 2022 - 08:15 PM.

[martian]

Nathan White, on 27 November 2022 - 11:33 AM, said:

You just can check old threads like that:
https://mwomercs.com...e-mechwarriors/
https://mwomercs.com...os-demographic/
https://www.reddit.c...f_a_mwo_player/

And make some corrections, because it was be 8-10 years ago.

A set of more than a decade old anonymous and unverifiable internet posts. Do you believe anonymous internet posts that you can not check? Usually I do not. Anybody can write anonymously anything on Internet.

Also, many of those players have been inactive for years (sometimes many years) and thus have no relevance for the discussion about the current player base in 2022.

[martian]

sycocys, on 27 November 2022 - 08:13 PM, said:

Just popped in a few days ago for a few hours to see how the game came along, tier 4 which I'm apparently in now (not a problem after a hiatus) pretty much played as expected other than the ridiculous amount of rage players in that range of selection had. Was kind of silly to be honest.

Just mute them in the chat.

sycocys, on 27 November 2022 - 08:13 PM, said:

Its nice to see the old and even some new maps in the game, super surprising they never implemented a way to dynamically reduce the amount of players per match and select appropriate maps to speed up the drop times. Honestly it probably wouldn't hurt to have lower tiers have lower player counts in their matches anyhow. It would probably allow them to develop their game skills without most of the frustration of getting alpha'd by 8-10 mechs deathballed up as they learn the skills and maps.

The lower number of players you have in the match, the more optimized loadouts you are "forced" to use, if you wish to be successful (or just survive )

Also, losing just one player in 10v10 or 8v8 is actually more severe loss than losing one player in 12v12.

sycocys, on 27 November 2022 - 08:13 PM, said:

*I see I lost enough to drop to tier 5 lol.

This is okay. All players were mowed to mid-Tier 3 in Summer 2020 and some of them moved to Tier 5 in Autumn 2020.

Just play the way you like it and let PSR do its job. Eventually you will settle in the right Tier.

Edited by martian, 28 November 2022 - 01:01 AM.

[Aidan Crenshaw]

martian, on 27 November 2022 - 09:45 PM, said:

This is okay. All players were mowed to mid-Tier 3 in Summer 2022 and some of them moved to Tier 5 in Autumn 2022.

Just play the way you like it and let PSR do its job. Eventually you will settle in the right Tier.

Correction: June 2021 and December 2021
time flies...

[martian]

Aidan Crenshaw, on 27 November 2022 - 11:42 PM, said:

Correction: June 2021 and December 2021
time flies...

Actually, it was in Summer and in Autumn 2020. But thanks anyway.

[Aidan Crenshaw]

martian, on 28 November 2022 - 01:00 AM, said:

Actually, it was in Summer and in Autumn 2020. But thanks anyway.

whoopsie

[sycocys]

martian, on 27 November 2022 - 09:45 PM, said:

Just mute them in the chat.



The lower number of players you have in the match, the more optimized loadouts you are "forced" to use, if you wish to be successful (or just survive )

Also, losing just one player in 10v10 or 8v8 is actually more severe loss than losing one player in 12v12.



This is okay. All players were mowed to mid-Tier 3 in Summer 2020 and some of them moved to Tier 5 in Autumn 2020.

Just play the way you like it and let PSR do its job. Eventually you will settle in the right Tier.

I don't know how to break down the quotes like that, but I don't mute them because most of it is at the end of matches and as far as I'm aware it doesn't carry over. So I guess its mostly a laugh at them for be grown men acting like toddlers for a few minutes kind of thing. Just didn't think it would be so rage-y in the non-try hard tiers.

-Lower tiers with lower player counts (especially this) wouldn't require or probably even promote optimized load outs. The players that reside in those tiers are less skilled all around the games mechanics so on the larger scale it would allow them to get more gameplay out of each match - the skilled and optimized build players would advance along in pretty short order.

For all around or higher tier matches dynamically lowering the match size would make for faster match making, as far as rolls go I honestly doubt it would result in any major difference other than possibly a higher likelihood of groups getting matched against solos. If you are against a team that is going to roll it, they are going to roll it whether its 12v12 or 8v8 or 4v4.

Mostly faster matching means your players get to play the game more often than staring at a queuing pop-up.


To me, after the implementation of the large maps this always seemed like an issue of bad choice in drop location selection (in some aspect map design as well), if they had chosen locations to push/near force lance v lance before convergence it would have made a massive difference, and probably even allowed a mode like FP to be successful eve in solo/small groups despite their short-sighted meta map design of the mode.

--The tier thing is mostly a laugh, haven't played in forever so its an appropriate place to be for the most part all of my mechs are old builds and the few that have skills on them were from early on in the skill tree which I never really cared for to begin with. Would still assert that if the skill tree was zero sum it would have actually added depth to the game and reduced the need for the crazy mech quirks that constantly slammed the higher tier gameplay from ditch to ditch.

From the little bit of looking around it didn't really appear as though they really developed out the gameplay/modes at all other than just dropping in old and a few new maps. Only real difference I noticed is that it felt like the base speed was faster than I recall it being, but that could just be from not playing for some time.

[Darian DelFord]

martian, on 27 November 2022 - 09:45 PM, said:

Also, losing just one player in 10v10 or 8v8 is actually more severe loss than losing one player in 12v12.

I have to disagree with this. While mathematically you are correct. When it comes to enjoyment, 8v8 was far more fun for a variety of reasons to me anyways. Less ways to be detected, less friendly fire, more ability to move freely, (Maps still to small for 24 mechs.) etc....

[Gagis]

A team of 8 players is also easier to coordinate and keep track of, for better team play.

Edited by Gagis, 28 November 2022 - 04:12 AM.

[sycocys]

Darian DelFord, on 28 November 2022 - 04:03 AM, said:

I have to disagree with this. While mathematically you are correct. When it comes to enjoyment, 8v8 was far more fun for a variety of reasons to me anyways. Less ways to be detected, less friendly fire, more ability to move freely, (Maps still to small for 24 mechs.) etc....

On most of the original maps (closed/open/early launch era) 4v4 or maybe 6v6 would have probably been ideal.
When they started going with the second sizing (New forest and such) 8v8 would have been a great size -if they made better drop points that all but eliminated deathballing. Same with the oversized maps and faction play maps - if they had better drops points in Alpine where lance v lance were split well apart and pushed the completion point towards the center it would have made the map so much more enjoyable.

Faction play as well, imo, would have been vastly more successful if it wasn't designed as a deathball vs deathball mode and instead was centered around dividing up the match combat into at least two sections. Also probably would have benefited from a basic change of multiple drops on one map to pairing up two teams with preselected mechs across multiple matches with some sort of reward multiplier, buff/de-buff, drop location type mechanics instead. Mini-campaigns instead of skirmish deathball x4.

[Papaspud]

Louis Brofist, on 24 November 2022 - 06:12 AM, said:

A lot of decent players have left over the years and the quality of the playerbase shot way down. Having said that you still get ok-ish play at T1, but not even close to what it used to be. There has oddly been an influx of new players in the last year or so who seem to be very confident yet completely clueless about how MWO plays. I remember seeing a streamer once on Twitch speaking with authority playing the game and giving the worst advice.

There's no way you only won 2 matches in 2 hours unless you played like 4 games. If you play 10 games (reasonable for 2+ hours of gampeplay) there's no way that you have an 80% lose rate. The W/L ratio tends to even out regardless of input.

If you're seeing players like you describe you're stuck in lower tiers. If you play well enough you will get +PSR even on losses and will eventually get to higher tiers where gameplay is semi-decent even though its kinda **** there too. But you know all of this being around for so long, so I don't understand the complaint.

Wrong- you can lose 15 games out of 20 when the MM sticks you with bad teams over and over. I have personally lost 12 in a row recently.

[RockmachinE]

Papaspud, on 28 November 2022 - 06:31 AM, said:

Wrong- you can lose 15 games out of 20 when the MM sticks you with bad teams over and over. I have personally lost 12 in a row recently.

There's simply no way you were on the losing team 12 in a row. It's purely anecdotal. I'm gonna need proof for such exaggerated claims. Show me a 2-3 hour stream of a 12 loss streak and I'll believe it. It just doesn't happen.

Now people dying 12 matches in a row that I'm sure happens frequently and those would be the same type of people who'd run to the forums and say how its the MM's fault, who would whine and who'd exaggerate to make a point.

A death =/= loss.

Actually you are a perfect example of this, there was no talk about a 15 out of 20 game loss. You pulled that out of thin air to make an argument.

[feeWAIVER]

Louis Brofist, on 28 November 2022 - 09:41 AM, said:

There's simply no way you were on the losing team 12 in a row. It's purely anecdotal. I'm gonna need proof for such exaggerated claims. Show me a 2-3 hour stream of a 12 loss streak and I'll believe it. It just doesn't happen.

I believe it. It happened to me a week or so ago.
Something like 8 losses in a row, and I logged off.
When your team melts, and you look up and the score is suddenly 1-7.

[GoatHILL]

feeWAIVER, on 28 November 2022 - 10:28 AM, said:

I believe it. It happened to me a week or so ago.
Something like 8 losses in a row, and I logged off.
When your team melts, and you look up and the score is suddenly 1-7.

Yea this is pretty common, I have gone 3 nights in a row without a win.

[RockmachinE]

I've logged my games this evening.

I'm 82 percentile, solo player, which is basically sh*tty low end Tier 1. These are EU servers at prime time.
This is an average night of MWO gaming played over a period of 3 hours, it didn't stand out in any way.
I realize the sample size is small, but it's more or less representative of what MWO looks like for a T1 solo player.

W/L Win/Loss
(s) survived round
+/-/= PSR gain/loss/no change

W+(s)
L+
W+(s)
W+(s)
W+(s)
L-
L-
L-
W+
W=
L-
W+
L-
L=


W/L ratio is exactly 50% - 7 wins 7 losses.
The longest loss streak was 3 rounds.
The longest death streak was 9 rounds.

This illustrates my point perfectly. People equate deaths with losses, exaggerate actual team losses and are biased towards complaining, negativity and blaming the game and MM. There's NO WAY you had a 12 loss streak. If you log in and stand still without contributing you will not get a 12 loss streak.

Edited by Louis Brofist, 28 November 2022 - 12:46 PM.