236 replies to this topic

[pbiggz]

You guys are so terrified by the notion of the game improving that when an easy win is presented you all act like its a threat.

[Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie]

last "easy win" was groupplay being trashed and soup being cooked up.
.. and that went .. "well".

but sure.. giving more material to those who'll abuse it will surely make the game "more fun";
just as it did last time.

[pbiggz]

Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie, on 12 April 2023 - 05:26 AM, said:

last "easy win" was groupplay being trashed and soup being cooked up.
.. and that went .. "well".

It literally saved the game.

Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie, on 12 April 2023 - 05:26 AM, said:

but sure.. giving more material to those who'll abuse it will surely make the game "more fun";
just as it did last time.

Its been explained multiple times why a 10 or 15 minute match timer pretty much precludes faction play-styled farming sessions.

All you're doing is choosing the worst possible parts of what isn't even being suggested and assuming those will happen with 100% certainty.

[Duke Falcon]

Bud Crue, on 11 April 2023 - 03:05 AM, said:

Serious. FYI, if interested in this as more than a presumed forum hoax, go listen to the last NGNG chat with Matt and Daeron. Matt notes that despite the community clamor to focus resources on trying to improve the match maker, he isn't confident that such an expenditure would result in much improvement to the MM, and that given the huge amount of positive feedback they receive from drop deck events in the event queue (per Daeron), then perhaps those resources would be better spent in trying to bring drop decks to QP.

This didn't come off to me as some pie in the sky flight of fancy, but more of a the 'MM is f-ed, I can't see us doing anything to it to make it better, so lets do something else that might be cool and that folks apparently like when we tried it in event queue' sort of thing.

https://mwomercs.com...att-and-daeron/

My 2 c-bills is that I for one think the event queue use of drop decks is fine, and it should go no further than that. I think that if Matt et al. are serious in their belief that the vast majority of the community would prefer drop decks in QP rather than see them put forth legitimate efforts to try and improve the MM (even if they fail), then he (they) are misguided at best.

And Ima da "troll 'o' sarcasm". But anywayz...

For serious: Are we trully need drop decks for QP? We have it in FP and EQ. QP would cease to be a "live weapon-test ground" if we introduce drop decks there.
+ Dumb-packs with a drop-deck would not be better or help more just mean moar farmin' what leads moar cry-a-river topics all ovah da platz... Hunh? Or want to teach them a new word (sorry, mods!): "Faszom!", as a new mantra when their mechs got obliterated? There are some players unable to assemble a single mech and you want to grant them decks?!
Keep drop decks away from QP IMHO. Better idea: FIX MM!!! Without a better MM drop decks would be nonsense little curiosities for seal-clubbers to bump their CB\XP\crotch\whatever...
I am not a good player. Far from that, check my on Jarl's list if want! But when even I wanna eject in a match because, well, quality (see, no name no shame, like CoC asked)? Some not "mature" enough for a full drop deck, believe me! More greater chasm for more serious stomps. Sounds fine? On higher tiers (3+) it may have a valid value but lower than that? Drop in some low-tier matches and witness what I said (especially on weekends, weekends are very special times)...

Or just ignore me. I already play in FP instead of QP because the challenge there worths buying drop decks.

[RockmachinE]

I didn't read the entire thread, came in late, so I don't know what has been pointed out or not, but It seems like an important topic so I want to contribute to the debate.

I personally like the idea a lot, but I don't think it should be the default game mode. Maybe a selectable one, even though that has its own set of problems.

• Finding a game would take way longer. This mode would tie up players for a long time, making match finding much longer. At certain times of the day it takes very long to find a match to begin with this would increase wait times by a factor of 3 or 4. We just don't have the population for this.
  
• Getting stomped in MWO is no fun, but at least in a few minutes its over and you're in another match with another mix of players. Uneven and unbalanced teams would make stomps last even longer, increasing the amount of time the game is unfun and making it into an exercise in frustration for the loosing team.
  
• Spawn camps, choke point camps. If you make drop points, they will be camped by the winning team or if not directly they will camp avenues of approach and bottlenecks. If you drop mechs randomly you're preventing team cohesion.
  
• Games would take longer. The good thing about MWO is you can jump in play a couple of matches and leave in a fairly small amount of time. You don't have to dedicate longer swaths of your time to MWO.
  
• More time commitment in general. Increased waiting times coupled with increased match times means one would have to dedicate longer periods of time to the game to begin with. Some people just don't have that time or the willingness to spend it. It would probably be increased significantly. From 10-15 minutes to find and play a match to 30-45.
  
• Not new player friendly 1. New players would have a hard time filling out the deck with their own mechs and would be forced to use trial builds making it even more difficult and potentially more frustrating to play.
  
• Not new player friendly 2. In a one mech match people tend to deathball and stick together in a drop deck match people spawn irregularly, making it even more difficult for inexperienced people to know what to do, where to go and team up. They would be easy prey for experienced players.
  
• Diverting resources. Resources for the MWO team are extremely limited, this would tie up a good chunk of those into something that is a gamble at best. It might seem like a simple thing to implement going of off the event queue, but to implement it as the default game mode would take much more then a few easy changes.
  
• A chance to kill the game. Major changes like this have a chance to kill the game. There is precedent for this with other MMOs. At this point MWO is very late in its life cycle, its stable and surviving, but just barely. We are in a good place, we don't want to do anything to disturb this delicate setup.
  
• This won't bring new players in. This change in itself won't bring fresh players to the game, MWO is too old for that. At best it would bring some veterans back to check it out, but this would not be significant. Its not worth the risk.
  
• It would significantly change what MWO is. People have gotten used to MWO being a certain way over the decade, if you change this you are risking turning into something completely different that people might not like and be used to. From time investment - waiting times and match times to in game dynamics to cbill earnings and mech builds. MWO as we know it would become a very different thing. This is something to seriously consider. The game is too old for such drastic changes.
  
• Just because it sounds good on paper doesn't mean it is. We have seen this before with other game modes, with faction play, with scouting, with solaris, we have seen this with the 8v8 mode. They were not designed well to begin with, true, but sometimes we think we want something in a game, it sounds great, but once its delivered it ends up not being as fun as it sounded and not as good as it looked in theory. We have to consider this.

I like the idea, I just don't think it would be wise to implement something like this at this stage in the game. We are in a good place, the game is actually being updated, poorly - but at least actively balanced and new content is being generated. People are still buying stuff. A major change like this has the potential to be fatal to MechWarrior Online. We have to be weary of such major changes.

Edited by Louis Brofist, 13 April 2023 - 04:21 AM.

[feeWAIVER]

Louis Brofist, on 13 April 2023 - 04:18 AM, said:

I didn't read the entire thread, came in late, so I don't know what has been pointed out or not, but It seems like an important topic so I want to contribute to the debate.

I personally like the idea a lot, but I don't think it should be the default game mode. Maybe a selectable one, even though that has its own set of problems.

• Finding a game would take way longer. This mode would tie up players for a long time, making match finding much longer. At certain times of the day it takes very long to find a match to begin with this would increase wait times by a factor of 3 or 4. We just don't have the population for this.
  
• Getting stomped in MWO is no fun, but at least in a few minutes its over and you're in another match with another mix of players. Uneven and unbalanced teams would make stomps last even longer, increasing the amount of time the game is unfun and making it into an exercise in frustration for the loosing team.
  
• Spawn camps, choke point camps. If you make drop points, they will be camped by the winning team or if not directly they will camp avenues of approach and bottlenecks. If you drop mechs randomly you're preventing team cohesion.
  
• Games would take longer. The good thing about MWO is you can jump in play a couple of matches and leave in a fairly small amount of time. You don't have to dedicate longer swaths of your time to MWO.
  
• More time commitment in general. Increased waiting times coupled with increased match times means one would have to dedicate longer periods of time to the game to begin with. Some people just don't have that time or the willingness to spend it. It would probably be increased significantly. From 10-15 minutes to find and play a match to 30-45.
  
• Not new player friendly 1. New players would have a hard time filling out the deck with their own mechs and would be forced to use trial builds making it even more difficult and potentially more frustrating to play.
  
• Not new player friendly 2. In a one mech match people tend to deathball and stick together in a drop deck match people spawn irregularly, making it even more difficult for inexperienced people to know what to do, where to go and team up. They would be easy prey for experienced players.
  
• Diverting resources. Resources for the MWO team are extremely limited, this would tie up a good chunk of those into something that is a gamble at best. It might seem like a simple thing to implement going of off the event queue, but to implement it as the default game mode would take much more then a few easy changes.
  
• A chance to kill the game. Major changes like this have a chance to kill the game. There is precedent for this with other MMOs. At this point MWO is very late in its life cycle, its stable and surviving, but just barely. We are in a good place, we don't want to do anything to disturb this delicate setup.
  
• This won't bring new players in. This change in itself won't bring fresh players to the game, MWO is too old for that. At best it would bring some veterans back to check it out, but this would not be significant. Its not worth the risk.
  
• It would significantly change what MWO is. People have gotten used to MWO being a certain way over the decade, if you change this you are risking turning into something completely different that people might not like and be used to. From time investment - waiting times and match times to in game dynamics to cbill earnings and mech builds. MWO as we know it would become a very different thing. This is something to seriously consider. The game is too old for such drastic changes.
  
• Just because it sounds good on paper doesn't mean it is. We have seen this before with other game modes, with faction play, with scouting, with solaris, we have seen this with the 8v8 mode. They were not designed well to begin with, true, but sometimes we think we want something in a game, it sounds great, but once its delivered it ends up not being as fun as it sounded and not as good as it looked in theory. We have to consider this.

I like the idea, I just don't think it would be wise to implement something like this at this stage in the game. We are in a good place, the game is actually being updated, poorly - but at least actively balanced and new content is being generated. People are still buying stuff. A major change like this has the potential to be fatal to MechWarrior Online. We have to be weary of such major changes.

We're asking for 15 minute matches, like the earlier sessions of Event Queue where.
The goal isn't to kill 48 mechs, the goal is to kill as many mechs as you can, and you get up to 3 respawns if you need them.
In 15 minutes, nobody runs out of mechs, nobody has time to burn through 4 mechs.

So games won't be longer, but every player will be playing for the duration of the game.
Objectives become more.important with respawns.
Conquest is great with drop decks.
You need to defend your base in Assault.
Domination will need a longer timer.


15 minute matches.
Let's do in it next EQ Weekend to refresh everyone memory on how fun that was.

[MTier Slayed Up]

You already have drop decks.

It's in FP. Go play FP.

Edit - Instead of queing with one mech, I can see having like a top 3/4 to choose from, but that would be that one specific mech on whatever map was selected for that match alone, rather than spinning the wheel and hoping your mech isn't going to be used as target practice.

IE: Map selected, you choose a mech for that map before match begins or just after map is selected, match begins. Still one life.

Of course I'd say you'd have to stick with that specific weight class, otherwise we'd just see 12 assaults vs 12 rainbows.

Edited by DrtyDshSoap, 13 April 2023 - 07:26 AM.

[feeWAIVER]

Louis Brofist, on 13 April 2023 - 04:18 AM, said:

I didn't read the entire thread, came in late, so I don't know what has been pointed out or not, but It seems like an important topic so I want to contribute to the debate.

I personally like the idea a lot, but I don't think it should be the default game mode. Maybe a selectable one, even though that has its own set of problems.

• Finding a game would take way longer. This mode would tie up players for a long time, making match finding much longer. At certain times of the day it takes very long to find a match to begin with this would increase wait times by a factor of 3 or 4. We just don't have the population for this.
  
• Getting stomped in MWO is no fun, but at least in a few minutes its over and you're in another match with another mix of players. Uneven and unbalanced teams would make stomps last even longer, increasing the amount of time the game is unfun and making it into an exercise in frustration for the loosing team.
  
• Spawn camps, choke point camps. If you make drop points, they will be camped by the winning team or if not directly they will camp avenues of approach and bottlenecks. If you drop mechs randomly you're preventing team cohesion.
  
• Games would take longer. The good thing about MWO is you can jump in play a couple of matches and leave in a fairly small amount of time. You don't have to dedicate longer swaths of your time to MWO.
  
• More time commitment in general. Increased waiting times coupled with increased match times means one would have to dedicate longer periods of time to the game to begin with. Some people just don't have that time or the willingness to spend it. It would probably be increased significantly. From 10-15 minutes to find and play a match to 30-45.
  
• Not new player friendly 1. New players would have a hard time filling out the deck with their own mechs and would be forced to use trial builds making it even more difficult and potentially more frustrating to play.
  
• Not new player friendly 2. In a one mech match people tend to deathball and stick together in a drop deck match people spawn irregularly, making it even more difficult for inexperienced people to know what to do, where to go and team up. They would be easy prey for experienced players.
  
• Diverting resources. Resources for the MWO team are extremely limited, this would tie up a good chunk of those into something that is a gamble at best. It might seem like a simple thing to implement going of off the event queue, but to implement it as the default game mode would take much more then a few easy changes.
  
• A chance to kill the game. Major changes like this have a chance to kill the game. There is precedent for this with other MMOs. At this point MWO is very late in its life cycle, its stable and surviving, but just barely. We are in a good place, we don't want to do anything to disturb this delicate setup.
  
• This won't bring new players in. This change in itself won't bring fresh players to the game, MWO is too old for that. At best it would bring some veterans back to check it out, but this would not be significant. Its not worth the risk.
  
• It would significantly change what MWO is. People have gotten used to MWO being a certain way over the decade, if you change this you are risking turning into something completely different that people might not like and be used to. From time investment - waiting times and match times to in game dynamics to cbill earnings and mech builds. MWO as we know it would become a very different thing. This is something to seriously consider. The game is too old for such drastic changes.
  
• Just because it sounds good on paper doesn't mean it is. We have seen this before with other game modes, with faction play, with scouting, with solaris, we have seen this with the 8v8 mode. They were not designed well to begin with, true, but sometimes we think we want something in a game, it sounds great, but once its delivered it ends up not being as fun as it sounded and not as good as it looked in theory. We have to consider this.

I like the idea, I just don't think it would be wise to implement something like this at this stage in the game. We are in a good place, the game is actually being updated, poorly - but at least actively balanced and new content is being generated. People are still buying stuff. A major change like this has the potential to be fatal to MechWarrior Online. We have to be weary of such major changes.

I want to touch on this post again because you clearly put some thought into it, and I appreciate that.
I'm not going to respond to the repetitive "play FP" posts anymore because it's a bad faith argument at this point.

1. Finding games will take longer.
Hard to say, but I'm sure EQ has metrics on this. Games would last no longer than 15 minutes, but could still end early via objective wins.

2.Getting Stomped is no fun.
Agreed. The good thing about drop decks is they give you a chance to lose the whole game, and pull out a win by pulling ahead in the final seconds, or ultimately winning through the objective. You can't just stomp your way to a conquest win, because respawns can still cap bases. You can't nascar in Assault because defending your base is actually important.

3. Spawn Camps, choke points camps.
In a 15 minute game you won't have time to farm out the drop zones.

4. Games will take longer.
Games will be no longer than 15 minutes. Games will still win early via objective.

5. More Time commitment in general.
I would argue that respawns give you more play time in the match, and less time looking at loading screens and/or watching other people play.

6. Not New Player Friendly 1 and 2.
I don't think you give new players enough credit here. They'll figure it out. If anything, giving a new player another chance after they get wrecked at the beginning of a match would probably be more New Player Friendly than just dying and being done for the whole match.

7. Diverting Resources.
Diverting Resources from what? If anything is to be done with the game, it's gonna need resources. This is a bad argument that is frankly above our pay grade as players.

8. A chance to kill the game.
Also a chance to revitalize the game. Shake up the meta, give news sites something to report.

9. Won't bring new players in.
Having news articles about big changes in MWO could bring new and old players alike.

10. Would significantly change what MWO is.
That's the hope. Make the game fun and fresh. New Meta, New Hype is preferable to slow attrition from stagnation.

11. Just because it sounds good on paper doesn't mean it is.
This is the best part, because we already have proof of concept from Event Queue.
Short Quickplay games with Drop Decks are massively fun and wildly popular.

Edited by feeWAIVER, 13 April 2023 - 08:27 AM.

[MTier Slayed Up]

1. Games would take exactly 15 minutes to finish if everyone is running four mechs. 15 minutes a game, when on average they typically last 5, maybe 10 on average. 15 is just a maximum. Rarely if ever does 15 minutes reach. And for good reason.
Four mechs in FP with a half hour timer, and that half hour timer is hit WAAAAY more often than QP. Quick play is called Quick Play for a reason. It's quick. Quick match, quick que, no fuss, no muss.

2. And the bad thing is a stomp is still a stomp. I would rather have my stomp last 5 minutes vs 15. For Quick Play purposes.

3. You'd be shocked at what can be accomplished. I can see people getting farmed at the 10 minute mark and just rage quitting.

4. See 1.

5. See 1. People are going to farm than objective grab more often than not. Then you turn this into FP and kill QP.

6. It wouldn't be. It would be like FP. You take these trial mechs into FP, and you're going to get rolled. It happens so often. People who have their own mechs built and maxed out that get qued with these guys are going to farm them.

7. This could go into balancing the game rather than expanding on what will likely be a failed experiment.

8. Shake up the meta? It's just a drop deck. What meta? No one will report on this. Most veterans will probably think; "Well, that's stupid."

9. See 8. There was one article written 3 weeks ago for MWO's rebrand. One. From MMORPG.com. I've never heard of the site. The rest is a new standalone MechWarrior title.

10. It wouldn't even be fun or fresh. It's literally in FP. With a shorter timer. Like...That's not new by any definition. You call it a faithless argument, but it's quite literally FP but with a 15 minute timer. You couldn't argue that it isn't.

11. It doesn't even look good on paper.

Edited by DrtyDshSoap, 13 April 2023 - 10:23 AM.

[feeWAIVER]

DrtyDshSoap, on 13 April 2023 - 10:12 AM, said:

1. Games would take exactly 15 minutes to finish if everyone is running four mechs. 15 minutes a game, when on average they typically last 5, maybe 10 on average. 15 is just a maximum. Rarely if ever does 15 minutes reach. And for good reason.
Four mechs in FP with a half hour timer, and that half hour timer is hit WAAAAY more often than QP. Quick play is called Quick Play for a reason. It's quick. Quick match, quick que, no fuss, no muss.

2. And the bad thing is a stomp is still a stomp. I would rather have my stomp last 5 minutes vs 15. For Quick Play purposes.

3. You'd be shocked at what can be accomplished. I can see people getting farmed at the 10 minute mark and just rage quitting.

4. See 1.

5. See 1. People are going to farm than objective grab more often than not. Then you turn this into FP and kill QP.

6. It wouldn't be. It would be like FP. You take these trial mechs into FP, and you're going to get rolled. It happens so often. People who have their own mechs built and maxed out that get qued with these guys are going to farm them.

7. This could go into balancing the game rather than expanding on what will likely be a failed experiment.

8. Shake up the meta? It's just a drop deck. What meta? No one will report on this. Most veterans will probably think; "Well, that's stupid."

9. See 8. There was one article written 3 weeks ago for MWO's rebrand. One. From MMORPG.com. I've never heard of the site. The rest is a new standalone MechWarrior title.

10. It wouldn't even be fun or fresh. It's literally in FP. With a shorter timer. Like...That's not new by any definition. You call it a faithless argument, but it's quite literally FP but with a 15 minute timer. You couldn't argue that it isn't.

11. It doesn't even look good on paper.

Unfortunately, the majority of this conjecture has already been proven false by past EQ weekends, when we had short games and drop.decks. I'll assume you didn't get a chance to play them, and your post is merely ignorant and not malicious.

[MTier Slayed Up]

You're right, I didn't. And I likely won't for reasons listed above. Because I wanted to play Quick Play, not FP V2.0.

Deflecting reasoning because I didn't play in the event does not mean my reasons are any less valid.

Just because YOU enjoyed it, does not mean universally everyone else enjoyed it. And hey, get this novel concept: It's an event. Meaning, for limited time. That's the gem behind these events. You enjoy something new that breaks the monotony of QP for a brief time, and wait for the next roll around. Making it permanent and forcing EVERYONE to play sort of kills the purpose of it being an event in the first place.

Here's something that I actually find funny.

feeWAIVER, on 27 March 2023 - 08:28 PM, said:

Can we try shorter games next Drop Deck weekend plz?

Last weekend often ended with one side or the other getting farmed out at the drop zone..
Can we make the games a little shorter plz? The gameplay goal should be to have more mechs if you need them, not kill every single mech on the battlefield.

So you think 15 minutes would solve that?

Edited by DrtyDshSoap, 13 April 2023 - 11:37 AM.

[feeWAIVER]

DrtyDshSoap, on 13 April 2023 - 11:07 AM, said:

You're right, I didn't. And I likely won't for reasons listed above. Because I wanted to play Quick Play, not FP V2.0.

Deflecting reasoning because I didn't play in the event does not mean my reasons are any less valid.

It's not deflecting to accurately guess that you don't know what you're talking about. Thank you for confirming my suspicion.
The fact that you didn't play it, and have zero experience with it, does infact make your opinion much less valid.

Edited by feeWAIVER, 13 April 2023 - 11:55 AM.

[MTier Slayed Up]

Lol. "Constructive criticism that I can't debate? HURRR!"

You go ahead and live in that air bubble then bud.

For the record. I did play it.

It was in FP. It wasn't fun.

Edited by DrtyDshSoap, 13 April 2023 - 11:59 AM.

[feeWAIVER]

DrtyDshSoap, on 13 April 2023 - 11:07 AM, said:

Here's something that I actually find funny.



So you think 15 minutes would solve that?

.
Previous EQ weekends had shorter games than the Freeworlds weekend.. and they were much more fun for everyone.
But you wouldn't know that... So please just stop. There's nothing constructive about ignorant conjecture.

[Anjian]

DrtyDshSoap, on 13 April 2023 - 10:12 AM, said:

1. Games would take exactly 15 minutes to finish if everyone is running four mechs. 15 minutes a game, when on average they typically last 5, maybe 10 on average. 15 is just a maximum. Rarely if ever does 15 minutes reach. And for good reason.
Four mechs in FP with a half hour timer, and that half hour timer is hit WAAAAY more often than QP. Quick play is called Quick Play for a reason. It's quick. Quick match, quick que, no fuss, no muss.

2. And the bad thing is a stomp is still a stomp. I would rather have my stomp last 5 minutes vs 15. For Quick Play purposes.

3. You'd be shocked at what can be accomplished. I can see people getting farmed at the 10 minute mark and just rage quitting.

4. See 1.

5. See 1. People are going to farm than objective grab more often than not. Then you turn this into FP and kill QP.

6. It wouldn't be. It would be like FP. You take these trial mechs into FP, and you're going to get rolled. It happens so often. People who have their own mechs built and maxed out that get qued with these guys are going to farm them.

7. This could go into balancing the game rather than expanding on what will likely be a failed experiment.

8. Shake up the meta? It's just a drop deck. What meta? No one will report on this. Most veterans will probably think; "Well, that's stupid."

9. See 8. There was one article written 3 weeks ago for MWO's rebrand. One. From MMORPG.com. I've never heard of the site. The rest is a new standalone MechWarrior title.

10. It wouldn't even be fun or fresh. It's literally in FP. With a shorter timer. Like...That's not new by any definition. You call it a faithless argument, but it's quite literally FP but with a 15 minute timer. You couldn't argue that it isn't.

11. It doesn't even look good on paper.

You can reduce it to only 10 minutes, no timer on respawns. Just drop in as soon as you are ready. There is a popular game out there that has a format of 10 minutes game time, 6 mechs in total.

You can play within 10 minutes and have all six mechs destroyed. Or you can play all 10 minutes with no mechs lost. It doesn't matter as long as you win.

I have to say if you are not losing mechs in your drop deck, then there must be something wrong with the way you play. You might be camping too much, not taking damage for the team, not aggressive enough with captures. In games with drop decks, it can be a part of strategy to knowingly eject from damage mechs, so you can use a fresh mech.

You can encourage people doing objective grabs by having daily objectives and rewards. For example, 10 grabs a day gives you a reward.

I can further encourage people doing objective grabs by increasing the rewards if you win.

Now I confess all of the above are not original ideas. I took them from games that already have implemented these ideas.

[Kanil]

Given that a QP match takes about 6 minutes, and the MM/loading for a QP match takes about 3, I feel like making quick play a little less quick wouldn't actually be that bad of an idea.

I'm not really thrilled about spending a third of my time playing the game not actually playing the game, but maybe that's just me...

[Horseman]

DrtyDshSoap, on 13 April 2023 - 07:18 AM, said:

Edit - Instead of queing with one mech, I can see having like a top 3/4 to choose from, but that would be that one specific mech on whatever map was selected for that match alone, rather than spinning the wheel and hoping your mech isn't going to be used as target practice.

IE: Map selected, you choose a mech for that map before match begins or just after map is selected, match begins. Still one life.

That would cause map or mode specific metas to emerge and make the gameplay much more stale in the process..

Anjian, on 13 April 2023 - 08:42 PM, said:

It doesn't matter as long as you win.

In MWO it matters with regards to the match score formula and the fact nearly all events for last year and something revolved around match score.

[feeWAIVER]

Horseman, on 14 April 2023 - 01:49 AM, said:

In MWO it matters with regards to the match score formula and the fact nearly all events for last year and something revolved around match score.

This is a good point.. if you survive the match on 1 mech, it multiplies your match score dramatically..
So the try hards that have a accounts to only play 10 matches a month to try real hard for the leader boards might have to try even harder? Maybe that's a source for some of the push back? I dunno.

[MTier Slayed Up]

Anjian, on 13 April 2023 - 08:42 PM, said:

You can reduce it to only 10 minutes, no timer on respawns. Just drop in as soon as you are ready. There is a popular game out there that has a format of 10 minutes game time, 6 mechs in total. You can play within 10 minutes and have all six mechs destroyed. Or you can play all 10 minutes with no mechs lost. It doesn't matter as long as you win. I have to say if you are not losing mechs in your drop deck, then there must be something wrong with the way you play. You might be camping too much, not taking damage for the team, not aggressive enough with captures. In games with drop decks, it can be a part of strategy to knowingly eject from damage mechs, so you can use a fresh mech. You can encourage people doing objective grabs by having daily objectives and rewards. For example, 10 grabs a day gives you a reward. I can further encourage people doing objective grabs by increasing the rewards if you win. Now I confess all of the above are not original ideas. I took them from games that already have implemented these ideas.

If you reduced the timer to 10 minutes with no respawn timer, it makes objective grabbing nigh impossible. Assault for example, not that anyone goes for the base often, would be pointless if there is a constant rotation of mechs. Conquest might work, but on bigger maps like Polar, I'd imagine it'd be pretty painful to play, especially as an assault. Domination would never end. Skirmish would never end. Just about every game I imagine would take exactly 10 minutes to finish.

Hear me out on this, I'm all for the single purpose of Quick Play. One life. If I'm on a team that absolutely get's steam rolled, I'm thrilled it only lasts at max 7 mins or so. I really am not for the idea of making QP last any longer than it already is. I suggested earlier that it would be more beneficial for players to be able to choose a mech after map selection, but that's where it begins and ends. QP doesn't really need an overhaul, or a change of core mechanics. What it needs is a better ranking system, or actually make it a "Casual Que" and make a "Ranked Que."

I'm pretty sure they can make a system similar to Jarls List, where it's a metric based on your avg match score, and not just some invisible metric/volume of games played. Or just scrap the entire tier system, and make the ques based on individual rank per player.

Example: We know D A T A is ranked 44. In ranked que. It can display his rank as 44 (or highest rank achieved), and he can que up with I'd say a generous number is 1-1000. Then 1000-2000. 2000-3000. Etc.

Heres an older game of FP. Close game, took nearly the full half hour. This was actually fun, mostly because I'm playing with friends. But, its FP. We do not need to soft clone FP into QP.
https://www.twitch.t.../603184659?sr=a

Edited by DrtyDshSoap, 14 April 2023 - 07:23 AM.

[pbiggz]

You spend 5 to 10 minutes in queue, just for 3 to 5 minutes of gameplay, at best (and much shorter if you die first). The ratio of time spent waiting to play/watching other people play to time you actually get to play is hideously bad and has always been.

Additionally, virtually all our gamemodes save skirmish were evidently built with respawns in mind. A 15 minute match timer like we already have, with a 4 mech dropdeck would be across the board an improvement to the quality of this game, and every suggestion to change that, either with fewer mechs or a shorter timer, just compromises the benefits and demonstrates that some people don't understand what's being proposed.

Event queue proved respawns work without jamming up the queue. Objective-based play, which, thus far, is either ignored or used to grief, suddenly becomes key, like it always should have been. Respawns don't make for longer wait times, nor do they result in more, or worse stomp/farm sessions. Those are the chief arguments being used against it and they're both demonstrably false. You have expressly indicated you did not play the event queue and you continue to make sweeping claims based on information and anecdotes you don't have or can't actually make. All you're doing is saying no to proposed changes reflexively, identifying proposed changes as "cloning FP" or whatever other boogeyman you like, and then calling people clowns when they tell you to substantiate your claims.

Nobody is asking for FP to be cloned. You made that up.

Edited by pbiggz, 14 April 2023 - 07:30 AM.