236 replies to this topic

[pbiggz]

Sean Lang, on 17 April 2023 - 06:38 PM, said:

TLDR - DO IT! DROP DECKS FTW IN QUICKPLAY! LET'S GOOOOOO!!!

****** eh

[MTier Slayed Up]

feeWAIVER, on 17 April 2023 - 11:58 AM, said:

The only 15 minute games you'll really get is skirmish.
Domination, Assault, and Conquest will more likely end by objective.

Right, but as I said previously, aside from Conquest, it's unlikely it will end by objective if there is a constant rotation of mechs. Just think about it. Lets say the first wave is 6/12 and it's assault. other team spawns and the other 6 make their way to to the base, how would those 6, who are likely beat up as is, is going to cap the base if their base is next to or relatively close to their spawn? Normally a match would end around 7 minutes, if not 8. I can't see how you could win by objective in any other mode aside from Conquest, much less go through 4 mechs in 15 minutes.

[feeWAIVER]

DrtyDshSoap, on 17 April 2023 - 07:46 PM, said:

Right, but as I said previously, aside from Conquest, it's unlikely it will end by objective if there is a constant rotation of mechs. Just think about it. Lets say the first wave is 6/12 and it's assault. other team spawns and the other 6 make their way to to the base, how would those 6, who are likely beat up as is, is going to cap the base if their base is next to or relatively close to their spawn? Normally a match would end around 7 minutes, if not 8. I can't see how you could win by objective in any other mode aside from Conquest, much less go through 4 mechs in 15 minutes.

Previous EQ's have had Domination frequently end early just by nature killing your enemies in the circle leaves you inside counting it down. If you're getting stomped, you just have to get in the circle, when you die, they count it down.

In assault, any capping you do lasts for the whole game- the damage is done. And you have multiple waves to attempt a cap.

[Duke Falcon]

You know what? I do not care, DO IT!

MM would broke it anyways...

But just out of curiosity:
Exactly how did they thought "drop decks"? Certainly they must have some rules for them apart from tonnage limit, right?
Right?

More farming

[VeeOt Dragon]

even most of the event que matches i have played with drop decks (the ones that don't restrict you to clan mechs only since i don't really play clan mechs) usually just end with one team spawn camping the other. yes every now and again you get a good match but most of them were mediocre. yes you get wins or losses by objective a bit more often than normal but not enough to counter the negatives. i think the main reason the drop decks in EQ have gone over well is because its something new. also you have the fact that EQ has other perimeters that makes them fun (things like unlimited JJs and all kinds of fun ****).

it gets even worse when you mix comp groups into things

Edited by VeeOt Dragon, 18 April 2023 - 12:24 AM.

[Ignatius Audene]

The main fact why it worked in event que, is that people there actively choose to participate in this mode, and probably are more focused towards proper game play. Bring the yolo QP horde in an respawn mode and u get recipe for desaster.

And choosing mech out of an pool where u are unlikely to use up all your spawns, combined with waves of new opfor to farm will lead to even more 4 man long range farming.

QP should stay idiot mode for idiot time and if u want to go serious u got options.

Edited by Ignatius Audene, 18 April 2023 - 02:07 AM.

[pbiggz]

Ignatius Audene, on 18 April 2023 - 02:00 AM, said:

The main fact why it worked in event que, is that people there actively choose to participate in this mode, and probably are more focused towards proper game play. Bring the yolo QP horde in an respawn mode and u get recipe for desaster.

And choosing mech out of an pool where u are unlikely to use up all your spawns, combined with waves of new opfor to farm will lead to even more 4 man long range farming.

QP should stay idiot mode for idiot time and if u want to go serious u got options.

There is no functional difference between quickplay and event queue except for event queue not being matchmade based on tiers. If a game mode works in event queue, where you don't even have tiers, then in theory, quickplay, where there is a matchmaker, should work even better.

Im not sure why people are consistently dismissing event queue as not a valid case study. Its not true.

[feeWAIVER]

Ignatius Audene, on 18 April 2023 - 02:00 AM, said:

The main fact why it worked in event que, is that people there actively choose to participate in this mode, and probably are more focused towards proper game play.

Anyone playing this game, in any format, is actively choosing to do so.

SO LET'S GET THESE DROP DECKS INGAME PGI LET'S DO IT GOGOGOGOGO!

[BumbleBee]

Add it as an optional checkbox so you can search QP (as is), DDQP, or both for games, and ill support it. Outright replacing QP with DDQP is a bad idea.

If you guys are so confident in how many people want DDQP, then you should have no problem supporting this.

If you dont then I have to question your motives for it.

Edited by BumbleBee, 18 April 2023 - 10:19 PM.

[feeWAIVER]

BumbleBee, on 18 April 2023 - 10:18 PM, said:

Add it as an optional checkbox so you can search QP (as is), DDQP, or both for games, and ill support it. Outright replacing QP with DDQP is a bad idea.

If you guys are so confident in how many people want DDQP, then you should have no problem supporting this.

If you dont then I have to question your motives for it.

Yeah absolutely. If they even split the queues for 1 month, we'll could see what people prefer to play.

[Curccu]

feeWAIVER, on 18 April 2023 - 11:35 PM, said:

Yeah absolutely. If they even split the queues for 1 month, we'll could see what people prefer to play.

If we get something new for a month to test, wouldn't people play it just for testing sake even if it wouldn't be better they just have to play it to form their opinion through experience?

[feeWAIVER]

Curccu, on 19 April 2023 - 01:02 AM, said:

If we get something new for a month to test, wouldn't people play it just for testing sake even if it wouldn't be better they just have to play it to form their opinion through experience?

I hope you're getting overtime pay at the excuse factory.

I'm confident in my position. You clearly are not.

[Curccu]

feeWAIVER, on 19 April 2023 - 04:35 AM, said:

I hope you're getting overtime pay at the excuse factory.

I'm confident in my position. You clearly are not.

Excuse for what? I don't give a damn if drop decks come into QP or not, I don't have side on this matter.
But when something new comes into game (any game not just MWO) people will most likely try it out.

[feeWAIVER]

Curccu, on 19 April 2023 - 04:50 AM, said:

Excuse for what? I don't give a damn if drop decks come into QP or not, I don't have side on this matter.
But when something new comes into game (any game not just MWO) people will most likely try it out.

And if they hate it, they will continue to queue up for it for 30 days for the novelty?
That doesn't pass the smell test. I don't like 1v1 Clan Heavy Solaris, and you won't find me queing and requeing for days on end.

[pbiggz]

Are players going to throw a hissy fit and hate it if it gets added, or are they going to hate it but play it anyway? Because both doomsday scenarios have been suggested (without any evidence). The goalposts are moving so fast that i bet the detractors will say they're right and dropdecks are the work of the devil even if they prove overwhelmingly popular.

You'd forgive me for thinking y'all haven't got a leg to stand on. You keep just digging up excuses, large and small, and throwing them at us to see which one might stick.

Edited by pbiggz, 19 April 2023 - 05:21 AM.

[Widowmaker1981]

There are two kinda competing versions of this idea in the thread. I like one and dont like the other.

Dropdecks where you load 4 mechs and pick the one you want based on the map: No. i think this will greatly reduce variety in game, almost everyone will include a full on sniper range mech and a full on brawler mech and some maps will devolve into blue flashlight wars every time, while others turn into a *********** brawl every time. I know it sucks to have the wrong mech for the map, but ive seen what happens on, for example, Grim Plexus, when people know what the map is in advance. Its less fun.

Dropdecks where you get to use all 4 mechs: Yes, im up for that idea, it sounds good to me (though i do have some reservations about it being pretty harsh to new players that dont have lots of mechs, if its the only game mode). Since people will need to choose a first drop mech before knowing the map as well as needing to bring options for the various maps, i dont have the same concerns as the other suggestion.

[pbiggz]

Widowmaker1981, on 19 April 2023 - 06:20 AM, said:

There are two kinda competing versions of this idea in the thread. I like one and dont like the other.

Dropdecks where you load 4 mechs and pick the one you want based on the map: No. i think this will greatly reduce variety in game, almost everyone will include a full on sniper range mech and a full on brawler mech and some maps will devolve into blue flashlight wars every time, while others turn into a *********** brawl every time. I know it sucks to have the wrong mech for the map, but ive seen what happens on, for example, Grim Plexus, when people know what the map is in advance. Its less fun.

Dropdecks where you get to use all 4 mechs: Yes, im up for that idea, it sounds good to me (though i do have some reservations about it being pretty harsh to new players that dont have lots of mechs, if its the only game mode). Since people will need to choose a first drop mech before knowing the map as well as needing to bring options for the various maps, i dont have the same concerns as the other suggestion.

There is something to be said for being able to tailor builds for environmental conditions, but, PGI turned ambient environment heat down to 5% of its full value ages ago so I doubt we're going to see cool environment effects ever again, and knowing how this crowd power games, you probably will see nothing but ERLL boats on alpine, or brawlers on solaris.

The choose-one-of-four proposal is a half measure that introduces more problems than it solves.

The full 4 dropdeck solves more problems. And its fun.

[Orion_]

Having 4 to choose from initially would be a nice change so you don't get screwed by the map vote but if we have to burn through all 4 mechs EVERY game that would get old fast. 30 minute games are fun once in a while but not every game, I don't have that kind of time.

[pbiggz]

Orion_, on 19 April 2023 - 06:30 AM, said:

Having 4 to choose from initially would be a nice change so you don't get screwed by the map vote but if we have to burn through all 4 mechs EVERY game that would get old fast. 30 minute games are fun once in a while but not every game, I don't have that kind of time.

Nobody wants 30 minute games and nobody wants you to have to burn through all your mechs. This is quick play not faction play, and it shouldn't be.

A 15 minute max timer solves that problem, and if you play objectives (something the lack of respawns makes impossible right now) matches will rarely last even that long.

[Ignatius Audene]

pbiggz, on 19 April 2023 - 06:47 AM, said:

Nobody wants 30 minute games and nobody wants you to have to burn through all your mechs. This is quick play not faction play, and it shouldn't be.

A 15 minute max timer solves that problem, and if you play objectives (something the lack of respawns makes impossible right now) matches will rarely last even that long.

Sure, but if u will never burn through all your mechs anyway (no way I loose more than 3 maschines in 15 mins including walk time) u effectively get the blue light saber duells on a lot of maps, that are extremely rough for newer players without specialized, TC, range quirked mech with full skill tree range. My standard drop deck in this environment would be something around 2 erll mech (stalker, whm...), One midrange and maybe one brawler. And once the meta settles QP horde will spam forums even harder how bad sniping has become.

Games where this kind of respawn system works normally have faaaaaaar bigger maps with eco system etc. (He'll let loose). Or random close spawns like xdefiant now. Adjusting this and the code for Mwo might be a bigger thing than we think (in mwo engine everything not XML is hard to adjust)

Edited by Ignatius Audene, 19 April 2023 - 11:40 PM.