35 replies to this topic

[Tesunie]

My take? Let people play whatever they want to play (within reasonable constraints for griefing a team with a useless loadout). Give advise and suggestions, but this is a game after all. If someone wants to be an assault sniper, let them. PSR is now no longer linked to winning or losing, so if you out perform them, eventually you will leave them behind in a lower tier.

[Void Angel]

When all the decent people
had thought this thread was dead
Somebody had to do the deed -
and necro it instead!

Necro, necro, necro!
I'll shout it to the sky;
Necro, necro, necro!
Just let the poor thread die!

[BLACKR0SE]

yesterday lrms today snipers what's next?

Headlines like this make me laugh

[Tesunie]

Void Angel, on 30 March 2023 - 08:15 PM, said:

When all the decent people
had thought this thread was dead
Somebody had to do the deed -
and necro it instead!

Necro, necro, necro!
I'll shout it to the sky;
Necro, necro, necro!
Just let the poor thread die!

It at least isn't too far out of date. The expiration was in Dec, with other remarks in March. The thing still has flesh.

[Ekson Valdez]

3 months (more like 2, actually) are not considered a necro with regard to the forum rules. Especially if there were no considerable changes to the MWO experience during that time.
Feel free to discuss further

[Void Angel]

Ekson Valdez, on 04 April 2023 - 12:50 AM, said:

[mod]3 months (more like 2, actually) are not considered a necro with regard to the forum rules. Especially if there were no considerable changes to the MWO experience during that time.
Feel free to discuss further [/mod]

Heh. Really? I actually had forgotten the timeframe - (but for the record, I never report necro posts.)

Actually, I don't see a timeline for posts at all, in the code of conduct - are there more specific forum rules elsewhere? I can only sing the song so many times before I start to repeat myself. =D

Edited by Void Angel, 04 April 2023 - 06:31 PM.

[The Will of The Way]

I used to complain about "sniper assaults" all the time. with that said, I think my view has changed significantly given a couple of things that have happened to me. Much of it actually has to do with the fact I've been trying to play more brawling 'mechs lately. This means I've had to adjust my tactics to suit very short range engagements. Part of doing so is to let other 'mechs fight it out and soften each other up a little before the "real fight" begins. The opening stage of the battle often seems to be a snipers' duel and in this stage a "sniper assault" actually does take damage, sharing their armor with the lighter snipers.

I've also been trying to play assaults more. The fact is, most assaults don't last long in a Brawl.I constantly see "brawling" builds for Corsairs, King Crabs, Marauder 2's, Atlases. I tried "Brawling" with my Dreadnought lately.. I ended up with about a .65 K/D and in several matches I took 600+ damage in a matter of seconds and basically removed myself from the game. You know what I actually do well brawling in? My Kitfox and My Crusader.

People should play the 'mech they have to the best of their ability. Many assaults are too big and slow, while not actually having access to better short range loadouts, to be decent brawlers. Meanwhile, they have more weight available to carry heavier weapons and heavier weapons often have longer ranges. Assault 'mechs often don't carry more weapons, but they can carry longer range weapons and equipment, which supports a sniper playstyle.

[Void Angel]

I haven't tried the Dreadnought, it looks like it might do well with an Lb-X or UAC build for close range. My go-to for Fafnir short-range builds is my dual UAC/20 SNAC build on the 6U.

The Atlas is a great brawler: that's the only thing most variants do well. But there is an art to Assault brawling, much of which has to do with limiting your exposure to the enemy team when you engage - because you can't escape easily, and no 'mech is tough enough to survive the focused fire of even a fraction of a 12-man team for long.

And while most Assaults can field decent brawling builds, often there is a mid- or long-range build that may be more effective, or an alternative chassis that can do it better. So Assaults definitely don't have to be all short-range or even mid-ranged builds - many top-tier Assault builds use long-range laser or ballistic weapons. On the other hand, a properly engaging Atlas brawler is a terror to their foes; when I hard-engage with my Atlases, I routinely dish out over 400 damage even when I don't survive.

[BLACKR0SE]

I love large sniper structures. The problem is that the maps are either designed for small machines or for large close combat structures. There isn't even a single map in the game where you can engage in long-distance battles.

[Void Angel]

Oh, I'm afraid that's not something I can agree with you on. One of the main complaints some people make about the game is that the meta is too long-range. Some maps have more ways to get close to the enemy than others, but there are lanes of fire for long-range combat in every map.

Something Like This will be able to hammer enemies from farther away than they can effectively fight back, and with proper positioning, you can keep on firing into the enemy team while your teammates engage from closer in.

Edited by Void Angel, 14 May 2023 - 09:01 AM.

[BLACKR0SE]

hmm

Edited by TAMTAMBABY, 14 May 2023 - 10:54 AM.

[BLACKR0SE]

It's not always like this. Sometimes I may not find a suitable angle at all. These maps are designed for close-quarters combat.

[Void Angel]

Incorrect. The maps are designed for a mix of close, mid-range, and long-range combat. That's why you have all those long sight-lines, like you took advantage of in your video, but also why there are routes players can take to reach you, if they're fast enough and know where you are.

The only map in the game where this design fails is Alpine Peak, a terrible map that only still exists because of the people in the player base who would stamp their foot and scream, "NOOOOOOOO!" whenever PGI announced anything... but that's a digression. My point here is that while Alpine Peaks is a great example of what a long-range map would look like, there is no counter-example for a close-range combat map.

[epikt]

Void Angel, on 14 May 2023 - 11:45 AM, said:

The only map in the game where this design fails is Alpine Peak, a terrible map that only still exists because of the people in the player base who would stamp their foot and scream, "NOOOOOOOO!" whenever PGI announced anything... but that's a digression. My point here is that while Alpine Peaks is a great example of what a long-range map would look like, there is no counter-example for a close-range combat map.

The other (opposite) example is Solaris City, which is mid range at best.
(there are more "open" areas on the peripheries of the map, but there are still some cover and the fight almost never happens there anyway)

[BLACKR0SE]

Void Angel, on 14 May 2023 - 11:45 AM, said:

Incorrect. The maps are designed for a mix of close, mid-range, and long-range combat. That's why you have all those long sight-lines, like you took advantage of in your video, but also why there are routes players can take to reach you, if they're fast enough and know where you are.

The only map in the game where this design fails is Alpine Peak, a terrible map that only still exists because of the people in the player base who would stamp their foot and scream, "NOOOOOOOO!" whenever PGI announced anything... but that's a digression. My point here is that while Alpine Peaks is a great example of what a long-range map would look like, there is no counter-example for a close-range combat map.

On the Alpine Peak map, people don't usually engage in top-down battles.. Similarly, most battles take place at the lower level. I only recall a few instances where we fought uphill. I would prefer to have larger maps of similar length. Machines like the ones I use don't have much impact on small maps.

What am I going to do up there alone while the whole team fights below?

[Void Angel]

TAMTAMBABY, on 14 May 2023 - 12:13 PM, said:

On the Alpine Peak map, people don't usually engage in top-down battles.. Similarly, most battles take place at the lower level. I only recall a few instances where we fought uphill. I would prefer to have larger maps of similar length. Machines like the ones I use don't have much impact on small maps.

What am I going to do up there alone while the whole team fights below?

Most matches on Alpine revolve around "who spawns at the big hill." Did your team spawn next to the giant central hill? Great! Get up there and blast away - I hope you brought long-range weapons. Did you spawn at the lower end of the map? Get ready for the arduous trek around the right side of that hill; try not to take too much damage from enemy dakka and the Clantech Laser Rave on your way in - and good luck trying to get up that near-vertical hillside if you picked a slow Assault!

If the upper team actually abandons that hillside to fight in the valley approach, I can only guess that they're just not that familiar with how much of an advantage the high ground gives them. I've seen people take that hill from below, but it's not easy - and it's not very fun to be any kind of midrange 'mech on that map (particularly if someone from the upper team sets up on the other side of that canyon approach to hit people's rear armor as they try to climb.)

epikt, on 14 May 2023 - 12:02 PM, said:

The other (opposite) example is Solaris City, which is mid range at best.
(there are more "open" areas on the peripheries of the map, but there are still some cover and the fight almost never happens there anyway)

Well, you have a point there, but even Solaris isn't as extremely close-ranged as Alpine; there are those midrange corridors in and around that central "square." Edit: and now that I think about it a bit more, there's an important difference between even the shorter-range sections of Solaris and Alpine: in Solaris, long-range 'mechs may fight at a disadvantage - but in Alpine, most of the time they can't even play; they simply have to trudge along and hope they don't get farmed for too much damage.

Edited by Void Angel, 15 May 2023 - 08:06 AM.