141 replies to this topic

[Quicksilver Aberration]

LordNothing, on 06 April 2023 - 12:33 PM, said:

the map design in general does not lead to good jump jet use. i think a good design rule is that every place can be reached on foot, but jump jets can be used as a shortcut. so you not only need places to jump to, that are useful locations to hold, but also have foot access, or at least access to a line of sight position, to deal with the occasional holdout.

In general this is true, but that still doesn't stop Mining from being one of the best maps in the game (and thankfully one of the few if not only map that hasn't been redesigned yet).

While I think vector JJs would likely fall into a similar pitfall in MWO as they did in MWLL in that they'll likely be largely unintuitive and not very useful. I think the main issue is what should they be useful for? If it is being able to use those shortcuts, well mission accomplished for the most part. Even in TT assaults with JJs are generally not as useful as just being a turret and hoping that wherever you managed to get to before an engagement was not a terrible place to hold.

That said, PGI made a really bad move by making it so there are diminishing returns with JJs as far as movement goes, but also they add heat with each addition. It just incentivized what had been true since the poptart era thanks to the JJ bug, you don't really need more then 3-4 to really get good jumps. I mean I love how much the Viper gets in vertical, but it really isn't worth the two tons that could be spent elsewhere.

[LordNothing]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 06 April 2023 - 08:40 PM, said:

In general this is true, but that still doesn't stop Mining from being one of the best maps in the game (and thankfully one of the few if not only map that hasn't been redesigned yet).

While I think vector JJs would likely fall into a similar pitfall in MWO as they did in MWLL in that they'll likely be largely unintuitive and not very useful. I think the main issue is what should they be useful for? If it is being able to use those shortcuts, well mission accomplished for the most part. Even in TT assaults with JJs are generally not as useful as just being a turret and hoping that wherever you managed to get to before an engagement was not a terrible place to hold.

That said, PGI made a really bad move by making it so there are diminishing returns with JJs as far as movement goes, but also they add heat with each addition. It just incentivized what had been true since the poptart era thanks to the JJ bug, you don't really need more then 3-4 to really get good jumps. I mean I love how much the Viper gets in vertical, but it really isn't worth the two tons that could be spent elsewhere.

the main problem with them in mwll was that they kind of used separate controls. sort of the way it worked in mw2. pitch kinda worked, if you set up your controls right to coincide with your torso controls, which is what i did, you could have had it bound to anything though. roll never worked, because you had to find two dedicated buttons for them and you couldnt really make it coincide with an axis in the same way. mwll also had the same problem that mw5 has in that its control configuration has to be set up outside the game. so you would map the keys, but then forget about them because they would be on the *** end of your keyboard, or they would be too hard to use in a hurry.

i think just having your torso elevation control it would make it a lot easier to use. mantling and hover jumps would be very easy to do quickly, poptarting would be no more difficult than it is now, and being able to control your trajectory would make it even more effective. being able to use it to get into and out of cover quickly is probibly your best advantage. push out too far, jump up and nose up to reverse jump. just being able to land in a low spot helps a lot.

Edited by LordNothing, 06 April 2023 - 09:27 PM.

[Tarteso]

Arrow IV / Arrow IV cluster
Inferno ammo
Long Tom / Thumper cannon

[25Hats]

Anyone else think the new map is a hint at the release of a Plasma Rifle soon?

Plasma Rifles were originally designed by Ceres Metals Industries.

[LordNothing]

25Hats, on 27 July 2023 - 11:47 AM, said:

Anyone else think the new map is a hint at the release of a Plasma Rifle soon?

Plasma Rifles were originally designed by Ceres Metals Industries.

i hope so. im not sure about the time table for their weapons pack but its supposed to be pretty late in the year. i hope they dont flake on the community with this one.

also not considering this a necro so long as its 2023. especially considering this is for planned features that have yet to be implemented.

Edited by LordNothing, 27 July 2023 - 04:55 PM.

[PocketYoda]

Have they given up on the new weapons or is it just taking all year?

[80sGlamRockSensation David Bowie]

LordNothing, on 14 January 2023 - 11:08 AM, said:

dev vlog said something about new weapons, so its definitely on the table again (of course sans weapon models

There is a handful of weapons we are still missing.

Binary Laser Canon (IS pair of LL strapped together but slightly less efficient than 2, kinda like a heavy IS laser)
Inferno SRMs
Hyper Velocity Autocannons (IS, 2, 5, 10, 20. Some handbooks mention minor AP functionality, more range / velocity)
Hyper Assault Gauss Rifle (Clan, 10,20, 30, 40, basically would act like a charge up RAC but with Guass)
Chemical Lasers (IS and Clan, essentially a standard laser but with ammo and limited heat)
Actual Flamer (not the flame thrower implementation currently)
Heavy Flamer (The flamer, but heavy! IS and Clan varieties. Think of a short ranged PPC that deals half damage, half heat)
X-Pulse Lasers (IS, small medium large. Would act kinda like an ultra AC, but with lasers! )
Long Tom (Mech mounted artillery)
Arrow IV Launchers (Missile mech mounted artillery!)

And of course dozens of non-canon weapons like the Bombast Laser, Streak MRMs that MW4 introduced, and some honestly interesting weapons like the Hammer Missiles in Mech Assault. The Bombast would be interesting as the charge up mechanic would at least pair nicely with the current iteration of Gauss family weapons.


Aside weapons, I would want to see more actual equipment, so it isn't just an arms race as to who can fit the biggest laser vomit or gauss/AC array on their mechs.

Give us C3 Targeting Computers (master and slave for sharing info to the entire team)
Command Console actually doing something useful, where you'd want at least 1 on your 12 man drop (Like being able to target your friendlies and see their weapons/damage on their mechs!!!!!)
ECM (standard. not the Gaurdian Angel Suite we currently have that doesn't share to teammates)
Blood Hound Active Probe (A MUCH better bap that would detect ECM units and close range mechs through collision walls, Need a C3 Master to share non-direct sigh line info).
Blue Shield Particle Dampener (limited use, reduces PPC type damage in half while active)
Reflective Armor (reduces beam damage)
Reactive Armor *(reduced missile damage)
IFF Jammer (Prevents / slows target blips without advanced targeted equipment, prevents info share without enemy equpiied C3 master or slave unit. Master naturally allowing sharing of target info).


All this equipment is very powerful and would actually slow the arms race by having mech designs take more tonnage worth of tech rather than just weapons.

I would love to go into detail of how each would work in the context of MWO, but more of a discussion for a different thread.

Edited by 80sGlamRockSensation David Bowie, 28 July 2023 - 06:34 AM.

[LordNothing]

PocketYoda, on 28 July 2023 - 06:24 AM, said:

Have they given up on the new weapons or is it just taking all year?

i think they said it would be in q4. so october-ish we should hear something.

80sGlamRockSensation David Bowie, on 28 July 2023 - 06:26 AM, said:

There is a handful of weapons we are still missing.

Binary Laser Canon (IS pair of LL strapped together but slightly less efficient than 2, kinda like a heavy IS laser)
Inferno SRMs
Hyper Velocity Autocannons (IS, 2, 5, 10, 20. Some handbooks mention minor AP functionality, more range / velocity)
Hyper Assault Gauss Rifle (Clan, 10,20, 30, 40, basically would act like a charge up RAC but with Guass)
Chemical Lasers (IS and Clan, essentially a standard laser but with ammo and limited heat)
Actual Flamer (not the flame thrower implementation currently)
Heavy Flamer (The flamer, but heavy! IS and Clan varieties. Think of a short ranged PPC that deals half damage, half heat)
X-Pulse Lasers (IS, small medium large. Would act kinda like an ultra AC, but with lasers! )
Long Tom (Mech mounted artillery)
Arrow IV Launchers (Missile mech mounted artillery!)

And of course dozens of non-canon weapons like the Bombast Laser, Streak MRMs that MW4 introduced, and some honestly interesting weapons like the Hammer Missiles in Mech Assault. The Bombast would be interesting as the charge up mechanic would at least pair nicely with the current iteration of Gauss family weapons.


Aside weapons, I would want to see more actual equipment, so it isn't just an arms race as to who can fit the biggest laser vomit or gauss/AC array on their mechs.

Give us C3 Targeting Computers (master and slave for sharing info to the entire team)
Command Console actually doing something useful, where you'd want at least 1 on your 12 man drop (Like being able to target your friendlies and see their weapons/damage on their mechs!!!!!)
ECM (standard. not the Gaurdian Angel Suite we currently have that doesn't share to teammates)
Blood Hound Active Probe (A MUCH better bap that would detect ECM units and close range mechs through collision walls, Need a C3 Master to share non-direct sigh line info).
Blue Shield Particle Dampener (limited use, reduces PPC type damage in half while active)
Reflective Armor (reduces beam damage)
Reactive Armor *(reduced missile damage)
IFF Jammer (Prevents / slows target blips without advanced targeted equipment, prevents info share without enemy equpiied C3 master or slave unit. Master naturally allowing sharing of target info).


All this equipment is very powerful and would actually slow the arms race by having mech designs take more tonnage worth of tech rather than just weapons.

I would love to go into detail of how each would work in the context of MWO, but more of a discussion for a different thread.

implement all the things!

Edited by LordNothing, 28 July 2023 - 04:44 PM.

[SafeScanner]

I wonder if it will be 2-3 weeks of pure hell or some event thing to balance them

[LordNothing]

it could take months to bring them into good balance.

start sensible. then based on performance, buff/nerf things by a large amount. measure the difference in performance. once you have bracketed the desired value, you can start converging on it.

last time they had a pts. a couple passes of that and they can bracket it, splitting the difference, and release it in the live game. then its small tweaks on the regular patch cycle.

Edited by LordNothing, 28 July 2023 - 05:05 PM.

[Duke Falcon]

HAGs would be fun. Arrow IV to to force snipers hopp-off.
PPCs with capacitors could be also fun. I love PPCs way to much to miss an "all variants included" mech game

[TannerFoust]

LordNothing, on 19 January 2023 - 02:46 PM, said:

i generally dont like stupid weapon mechanics in games. especially in a mechwarrior/battletech game because you have a fire control system that lets you set up weapons your way, then you got this charge mechanic that mucks that all up. its not a good design choice. and also i say the same thing about rac spin up. brrrt machines spin up really fast its hard to notice.

It was a balance decision. When gauss first hit the game, it was completely overpowered. Long range, almost no heat and immediate fire. It was like a long-range AC20 without heat. Even the explosion on crit wasn't that much of a counter because other ballistics carry tons of ammo that can explode.

I am not a huge fan either as it makes it difficult to use unless sniping, but I can understand why the change was made. Before the charge was added, the dual Gauss Jaeger, etc. was king.

Edited by TannerFoust, 29 July 2023 - 03:38 PM.

[LordNothing]

TannerFoust, on 29 July 2023 - 03:37 PM, said:

It was a balance decision. When gauss first hit the game, it was completely overpowered. Long range, almost no heat and immediate fire. It was like a long-range AC20 without heat. Even the explosion on crit wasn't that much of a counter because other ballistics carry tons of ammo that can explode.

I am not a huge fan either as it makes it difficult to use unless sniping, but I can understand why the change was made. Before the charge was added, the dual Gauss Jaeger, etc. was king.

yea i see why its done. gauss rifles were a real problem in mw4. but they could have worked it into fire control for better integration, fire two and have to charge, but in chain fire you would get to fire instantly, but this would lock down your grs for one cd cycle. racs could have fired at half speed in chain fire for a more modest heat curve.

[Tywren]

Lets go nuts and say Arrow IV! First weapon with a blast radius; make it indirect fire, give it a 30-45 second refresh rare, and the only fire while locked drawback of Streaks, and only let it lock on to mechs that are taged/narced, but make it do damage to all locations of the target mech, and splash damage to near by mechs.

[LordNothing]

Tywren, on 29 July 2023 - 05:44 PM, said:

Lets go nuts and say Arrow IV! First weapon with a blast radius; make it indirect fire, give it a 30-45 second refresh rare, and the only fire while locked drawback of Streaks, and only let it lock on to mechs that are taged/narced, but make it do damage to all locations of the target mech, and splash damage to near by mechs.

id rather have vgls and mech mortars, same idea on a smaller scale. i think maps are too small for arrow iv, but if it works it works.

[PocketYoda]

LordNothing, on 28 July 2023 - 04:45 PM, said:

i think they said it would be in q4. so october-ish we should hear something.



implement all the things!

Cool i'm glad its not forgotten.

I do hope they update clan weapons because their choices are really lacking these days..

Edited by PocketYoda, 29 July 2023 - 10:50 PM.

[Bes7iA]

hi, I have no idea about the lore, and I must admit, I haven't read your posts yet, but I do like making games, and also have stupid ideas all the time, so do not take them too seriously because I kinda like to go crazy with them

when it comes to new weapons I could imagine:

Lasers
- some sort of variable laser like ATM's that does more damage the closer you are to the target
- maybe an equipment piece that reduces the cooldown of your lasers, but creates a sorta "jam chance" situation
- a fireball, imagine a range flamer that charges shots like a gauss, so the more you charge the more heat the target recieves but more cooldown the weapon has and you heat yourself half as much
- just a big constant laser, fires as long as you hold the button, heats yourself more and more as you keep shooting
- orbital strike, you need to pair this with a tag, and if you tag someone for a while, microlasers will start hitting the target untill the tag breaks


Ballistics

- a cannon ball, like, an actual cannon ball, it gets shot, and it keeps rolling on the ground untill it hits something or explodes after a while, maybe bounce once or twice, but it travels by rolling on the floor only
- smart machine guns, short range but fire automatically at a locked target within range, can't be aimed tho
- drill shot, a sorta gauss rifle, but the shots can penetrate a few targets
- magnetic chain shot, works like a rocket launcher, you fire this thing once, and if you hit a leg, the target looses a % of its max speed, no damage

Missiles
- disabler, picture a narc shot, but bigger and maybe slower with a long cooldown, on impact it disables a random sistem or weapon for a while
- mines 5, 10, 15, shoot a few mines that stick for a while, detectable and harmless for the first few seconds, after that they are invisible, hide them in a corner, or an obvious path, they can be shot and destroyed tho
- wide missiles 10, 20, 30, 40 mid range they fly in a wide pattern and hit from the sides, can't be fired without a locked target
- burner, a missile that sticks to the target and deals damage over time, while stick, it lowers your maximum heat capacity

other weird stuff
- agressive AMS, a long range gun that automatically fires to targets that shot missiles, it is equiped in place of the regular AMS and uses the same ammo
- flares, shots a very slow projectile with a long cooldown that travels for a short to mid distance, enemy missiles in it's nearby area target the flare instead
- EMP, can only be shot once, when fired, an area around your mech is affected, mechs affected are powered down, you too

yea you want new wapon? why not go crazy

Edited by Bes7iA, 30 July 2023 - 02:39 AM.

[Hauptmann Keg Steiner]

A couple of these are already a thing, but I don't know how well modern PGI (or even peak PGI) could implement them:

Bes7iA, on 30 July 2023 - 02:38 AM, said:

- some sort of variable laser like ATM's that does more damage the closer you are to the target

Variable-Speed Pulse Lasers do more damage and are more accurate the closer you are. Problem is they're more accurate by (as you can guess) firing the pulses faster the closer you are, which I don't know if that's a thing PGI can program right now.

Bes7iA, on 30 July 2023 - 02:38 AM, said:

- a fireball, imagine a range flamer that charges shots like a gauss, so the more you charge the more heat the target recieves but more cooldown the weapon has and you heat yourself half as much

Don't know if it would have a charge mechanic, but there are Plasma Rifles (IS) and Plasma Cannons (Clan) that fire projectiles that do obscene amounts of heat. Their ammo also doesn't explode, like Gauss. MWO doesn't seem to want flamers to be super effective though so I'm not sure if these would have a place.

Bes7iA, on 30 July 2023 - 02:38 AM, said:

- just a big constant laser, fires as long as you hold the button, heats yourself more and more as you keep shooting

The MekTek patch for MW4 Mercenaries had these, could be fun to see a comeback. Might be too non-canon for some people though.

Bes7iA, on 30 July 2023 - 02:38 AM, said:

- mines 5, 10, 15, shoot a few mines that stick for a while, detectable and harmless for the first few seconds, after that they are invisible, hide them in a corner, or an obvious path, they can be shot and destroyed tho

Thunder LRM ammo drops mines. There's no system for ammo switching though (but they could just put them in the game as separate LRM launchers) and they fire like artillery, which would probably require some alternate control system to get to work right.

Bes7iA, on 30 July 2023 - 02:38 AM, said:

- burner, a missile that sticks to the target and deals damage over time, while stick, it lowers your maximum heat capacity

You've got Inferno missiles for SRMs and LRMs, that stick targets with burning gel. You've got both the ammo-switching and heat-causing weapon problems in one package, though.

Bes7iA, on 30 July 2023 - 02:38 AM, said:

- disabler, picture a narc shot, but bigger and maybe slower with a long cooldown, on impact it disables a random sistem or weapon for a while
- EMP, can only be shot once, when fired, an area around your mech is affected, mechs affected are powered down, you too

There's the TSEMP one-shot and TSEMP Cannon (and the Battlemech Taser system they're based off of). They can "force the unit to shut down completely or interfere with targeting systems, sensors, and other electronics equipment," which sounds a bit too good, especially since the Cannon can fire multiple times per battle (though it has a long cooldown, and also screws with your own targeting, and explodes like Gauss when hit).

[simon1812]

I think this thread is relevant enough to bring back up...and ues we want more weapons! This game needs more weapons!

[SirEpicPwner]

The game is getting more weapons in the upcoming patch.

Edited by SirEpicPwner, 16 August 2023 - 04:46 AM.