112 replies to this topic

[PocketYoda]

Heavy Money, on 15 January 2023 - 10:32 PM, said:

The meta is not sniping or long range. The top QP loadouts are midrange things like laservomit and UAC Dakka. Sniping racks up high numbers vs uncoordinated teams is all.

Depends on what tier you are in.

LordNothing, on 16 January 2023 - 07:04 AM, said:

i think the best erll boat i have on the is side is a warhammer. not even an assault.

Marauder IIC is an absolute sniping beast.. Supernova not bad either.

Edited by PocketYoda, 22 January 2023 - 07:43 AM.

[Weeny Machine]

By Any Other Name, on 16 January 2023 - 09:34 AM, said:

I won't share armor with people who are just gonna throw me away. Once I commit to something in a mech that is doing good to top 50kph I won't have the luxury of rethinking my decision when the people who demand that I enable their fantasies of battlefield competence rethink their plan at 80+kph.

Nice. But then explain why light and meds should react to the whining of "don't leave your assaults behind"? Why do you expect that mediums and lights stay with you and share their armour?

[JediPanther]

I still see builds like this. I took out the name of the player. Either they do it for super easy event grinding,they are bored of meta and want just a "fun" build or they really have no clue what a bad build is. I'd expect to see such a build on the cptl-a1 since it has zero energy hard points but on an ddc well no wonder I just farmed it.

[Saved By The Bell]

This is bad fight.

PGI changed this very good map in snipe sh*t from walls.

TTB is close range and pretty useless. Later he killed 4 pretty damaged enemy.

Assault cant do anything in such case.

[foamyesque]

JediPanther, on 22 January 2023 - 10:32 AM, said:

I still see builds like this. I took out the name of the player. Either they do it for super easy event grinding,they are bored of meta and want just a "fun" build or they really have no clue what a bad build is. I'd expect to see such a build on the cptl-a1 since it has zero energy hard points but on an ddc well no wonder I just farmed it.

Ye gods, that's got less firepower than an LRM heavy. What a waste of an Atlas.

[Void Angel]

JediPanther, on 22 January 2023 - 10:32 AM, said:

I still see builds like this. I took out the name of the player. Either they do it for super easy event grinding,they are bored of meta and want just a "fun" build or they really have no clue what a bad build is. I'd expect to see such a build on the cptl-a1 since it has zero energy hard points but on an ddc well no wonder I just farmed it.

foamyesque, on 22 January 2023 - 02:57 PM, said:

Ye gods, that's got less firepower than an LRM heavy. What a waste of an Atlas.

I have had people Defend to the Death their LRM Atlas builds. =)

As an Assault and Light pilot myself, I'm going to weigh in here with a few observations:
Not all Assaults suffer from being in close cover terrain (e.g. buildings.) If their build has strong side-peeking ability or good convergence (such as the Stalker,) they can operate pretty well. What Assaults can't do is survive long on the modern battlefield as focus fire targets for the enemy team - nor can they generally make a fast escape from that situation when they encounter it. So Assaults will tend to stay in cover for various reasons when they don't know where the enemy team's main body is, or if they can't count on their teammates to help with fire superiority.

What an Assault needs from their team is combat support, and battlefield information. They're punished for peeking more than any other weight class, so they rely on teammates to know where the enemy is, via voice coms, sensor sharing, or just a well-placed UAV. A 6UAC/2 Dire Wolf doesn't really gain much by being up close and personal, but he still needs to avoid taking six ERPPC sniper alphas to the face for exposing himself, and the team can help him immensely by providing that. A closer-ranged build will often take prohibitive damage if they try to cross a field of fire at the wrong time, so they also need to know where the enemy is and what he's doing.

Then, when the Assault starts to engage, the team can take advantage of the enemy's distraction. Either the enemy will be shooting at the Assault, or they'll be shooting at you; there's not guarantees on the battlefield. But if they're confronted with both you and an angry Assault build firing at them from optimal range, they'll usually either focus on the Assault or grope their way back into cover (if not both.) This is how Dakka Whales, for example, share armor and project combat presence, even from a kilometer away.

So it's not always a badly played assault who's staying back from the fight; even if they're fresh, they can't control who the enemy shoots at, and even an assault needs to take cover if several enemies are putting effective fire on them. But Assaults do need to be aware of the battlefield and keep maneuvering to support the team and maintain access to enemy targets. Sitting back and waiting for enemies to expose themselves may allow you to farm a lot of damage, and is a legitimate thing to do for part of the game - but if the enemy effectively focuses your team down while you play tactical whack-a-mole, you might not be playing as well as your rewards and match score indicate.

[sycocys]

Still better than "I've got LRM 85, please hold locks." followed by a brag that they were getting 1k damage with 85 tubes, not doing as good as you think your doing my dude.

Won't complain too much though, got 6 kills that match 3 kmd, 3 solo with a micro pulse vomit nova.

[foamyesque]

sycocys, on 22 January 2023 - 04:14 PM, said:

Still better than "I've got LRM 85, please hold locks." followed by a brag that they were getting 1k damage with 85 tubes, not doing as good as you think your doing my dude.

Won't complain too much though, got 6 kills that match 3 kmd, 3 solo with a micro pulse vomit nova.

I live by one rule when I play LRM machines, even in pure LRM machines: You're responsible for your own locks. If that means exposing and taking fire, welp, so be it. Everybody else has gotta do it too.

Also important to remember: LRMs can dumbfire. Clans are bad at it, but the Sphere's volleyfire LRMs do much better.

'course, some people just absolutely refuse to simply press R, which is pretty annoying when you're spectating them. It isn't just LRMboats that benefit! It lets your team know where the other guys are *and* it gives *you* the paper doll info for finding weak spots and exploiting them.

[SafeScanner]

Rule of thumb for me "lock'n spot" helps everyone even a "Help!" when you are dealing with lights trying to tenderised your backside we can't help all the time but it does not mean we can get vengence

i have the issue in Teir 5 people myself included tend to forget awareness

Edited by SafeScanner, 22 January 2023 - 05:31 PM.

[Risen Trash]

Well, assaults are usually slow, so if everyone's off to the races (especially on a big map like alpine or polar) it may be that the slow, big guns are just late getting to the party.

While I do see a lot of frustrating peek and poke from sterling assaults, tbf I also see some objectively bad play from fast movers, too. You find the enemy first, you don't commit to taking on 3 of them on your own in a Crab and complain that no one's helping. Smart fasts kite them back to friendly guns; dumb fasts jump in to **** odds and get mad when their teammates can't bail them out.

Another problem I see is positioning. It's important, of course, especially in the opening, to move your mech to a good position to fight from. But (and I still have this problem too, sometimes) if you spend too much time sneaking around, especially in a slow assault, you have to make sure "the juice is worth the squeeze," as they say. If you can pop up unsuspected on their flank and deal a crippling blow, great. But there are really no extra points for being super-sneaky, so if you crawl around in the canyons for half the match and only start shooting when they find you and have no choice, or commit the dreaded "Flank Through Zimbabwe" (in which you've taken so long to get to that ideal firing position that your team is already down by four before you've fired your first shot) you're really not helping your team much and should reconsider your tactics.

A good thing to keep in mind, something I try to remind myself while positioning, is that every second my weapons aren't cycling, my team is losing.

Some thoughts on NASCAR: I'm of the unpopular opinion that NASCAR isn't simply a problem with fast movers taking off. There's nothing inherently wrong with fast movers getting the jump on the right flank or circling around to prey on the enemy's slow movers. Especially if they're equipped with ECM (I don't think it's fair to expect a squishy fast sneaky build to hang out and protect the slow big assaults. It's really not what they're built for.) On the contrary, remember that the enemy's slow assaults are having the same issues your team does, and every time an enemy slow has to stop and turn on that pest in the backfield, that's time taken away from them getting to the front and pointing those big guns at you.

A lot of the NASCAR I see in the pug occurs when the squishy fasts take off to do their thing (recon and harassment) and everyone else just blindly follows them. Unless you're doing Steiner cosplay, there is no reason for an assault to go along with them. Figure out how the battle will develop and form an effective firing line. Understand your build and play your position. Be the anvil to your teammates' flanking hammer. Lights getting the best of you? Maybe trade a couple of those LRM's for a pair of SSRM6's?

Remember that NASCAR takes two teams: if that's the situation, then you have an advantage because you know what the enemy is doing and more or less where they are. You lose that advantage when you blindly follow your teammates into a NASCAR you can't keep up with. Now they know what you're doing and where you are. I had a really good game the other night when someone suggested we all move left and sack their NASCAR. There were a few moments of total confusion and chaos when they came headlong into our line on NASCAR autopilot, but that was all it took. We rolled them.

Also a lot of what I see comes down to poor situational awareness. I know it only takes up a tiny portion of your screen, but using that battle map is crucial to good play. I don't know how many times I've seen people look at their teammates on the map and think "There's a push! I'm in!" Then when it all goes south they say "Why'd everyone leave me?" Well, you looked at the map and jumped in, why didn't you see your teammates falling back on the map and fall back with them? Have you found the enemy? Are you on comms reporting their position? Did you even press "R"? Because I know for a fact that as soon as there is an enemy marker on that map, most players will (sometimes stupidly) head straight for it. If you're wheeling with the enemy by yourself and you haven't locked them or said anything on comms, no one's helping you because on their map, you look like an idiot spinning in place somewhere else.

Also keep an eye on the score up top. If you're down by six, no one abandoned you. They melted. Also, chances are no one is coming to help you because they're all fighting for their lives.

The last thing to keep in mind is that if you're a filthy trash-tier casual like me, there's a good chance you're playing with noobs who are figuring the game out, trying out different builds, learning the maps, and overall understanding how to win. You know, like you did once long ago when the game was fun and new? They take off on the NASCAR in a slow assault because following other players seems like a good idea. They hide when they get shot at because they don't understand what a beating their Atlas can take. It's frustrating, and anyone who dropped with me on a bad night knows I'm not always a prince on the comms myself, but try to understand that we're all trying to have fun, here. They'll figure it out if they stick with it, and I try to remember that they're much more likely to do that if I don't act like a douche on comms and ruin their night because I lost one match in a video game. There are plenty of other games they can go play and who needs that?

Wow this went on. Sorry about that. All this talk has me hankering for a few drops, so maybe I'll see you out there. Before I finally go, I'll leave you with a joke someone around here once said (I don't remember who):

Q: How do you put an assault mech in reverse?
A: Graze it with a medium laser.

[Void Angel]

I love that joke. It's funny because it's true.

With the forever circling problem, I don't think it's due to any one factor. People used to say "well, it's because the heavy autocannon mounts on most 'mechs are on the right side, so we have to..." That explanation seems like it fits, until you realize how many of the popular 'mechs today are symmetrical ridge-humpers and people still do it. Honestly, I suspect it has more to do with the tendency of most people to be right-handed than anything else.

But circling the enemy team forever is not the best tactical action. You should be maneuvering in response to what the enemy does, not mindlessly circling the tactical drain. The map that spurred the invention of the term "nascar" has been redesigned to discourage that very behavior, actually. So while I hate the term "nascar" - it's a sloppy-thinking pejorative that substitutes for thought, like "ghost heat" - I really do dislike the tactical error it describes.

Conversely, though, I see the reason that joke is funny a LOT - used to see it on the old Caustic Valley, too. Someone would drop in a Dire Wolf or Atlas, and they know they're slow; but as soon as someone shoots at them, they'd stop and start shooting back in place, maybe slowly backing away from their attacker, then cry about being "left behind" - when I started at the same spot in my (just as slow) Atlas and I made it to the team before they even came under serious fire.

So there's some justice to both positions. Amateur Assault pilots do often pick bad routes to get to places, unthinkingly pathing through uphill or rough terrain, or not cutting across to reach the team's destination when it's safe to do so. It's also true that sometimes the fight moves faster than an Assault can go, and I've had matches where I just couldn't keep up with my team in my Dire Wolf as they butchered the enemy. But if the team really does just keep circling the drain, an Assault is only so fast; the fact that many times they can keep up if they played better does not invalidate the times when they simply can't.

[sycocys]

foamyesque, on 22 January 2023 - 04:53 PM, said:

I live by one rule when I play LRM machines, even in pure LRM machines: You're responsible for your own locks. If that means exposing and taking fire, welp, so be it. Everybody else has gotta do it too.

Also important to remember: LRMs can dumbfire. Clans are bad at it, but the Sphere's volleyfire LRMs do much better.

'course, some people just absolutely refuse to simply press R, which is pretty annoying when you're spectating them. It isn't just LRMboats that benefit! It lets your team know where the other guys are *and* it gives *you* the paper doll info for finding weak spots and exploiting them.

it was the "I have 85 lrms" followed by "I do 1000 damage a match". doesn't matter to me if people want to run lrm boats, I just play the match the way the mech I chose allows for. If that's the game they want to play its for them, sometimes I run micro-vomit and get ganked with 40 damage - I expect to get laughed at for that performance as well.

I chuckle at the guys that don't target and end up getting smoked because they are putting fire everywhere but the wide open ct or cherry red legs.

[CFC Conky]

Reading this thread, one gets the impression that all assault mechs are tanky as all get out and should only be played that way. Well, they aren’t, and shouldn’t. Personally, I try to escort slower assault mechs to the main battle when I’m in something lighter/faster unless they are going out into the boonies for no good reason, or they ask me not to because they are using ecm and/or stealth armour and don’t want me to risk giving away their position.

Also, supporting assault mechs doesn’t mean sticking to them like glue. If you can stay in los and weapons range you can defend them quite well if necessary.

Good hunting,
CFC Conky

Edited by CFC Conky, 23 January 2023 - 04:53 AM.

[Void Angel]

That is a good point; Assaults do have a higher base durability (armor+structure,) but they're not uniformly tough by any measure. An Atlas has an insane amount of bonus armor to support the (only) thing it does well, while my Blood Asp has less bonus armor than a Locust. Hit boxes and 'mech architecture can make a huge difference, too: using the Blood Asp as an example again, those weapon "ears" are great, high mounts - but they stick out so far, they can be seen over hills before the Blood Asp can actually shoot over them, allowing experienced players to chip away at the Asp in complete safety (if he can't come over the hill after them.)

I advocate escorting Assaults for any brawling Medium or Heavy, at least as a default stance, and truly fast Mediums and Lights should spread out to go look for things (even without ECM; just be more careful.) After all, if your Assault slowpokes get jumped by other fast movers, you have the speed to probably get back to help.

[foamyesque]

Risen Trash, on 22 January 2023 - 05:47 PM, said:

Q: How do you put an assault mech in reverse?
A: Graze it with a medium laser.

I mean, you learn pretty fast that if you got hit with *one* medium laser there's usually a lot more about to come in. So not continuing to march in until you've taken a moment to assess what's up can make sense, but...

[JediPanther]

Void Angel, on 22 January 2023 - 11:33 PM, said:

That is a good point; Assaults do have a higher base durability (armor+structure,) but they're not uniformly tough by any measure. An Atlas has an insane amount of bonus armor to support the (only) thing it does well, while my Blood Asp has less bonus armor than a Locust. Hit boxes and 'mech architecture can make a huge difference, too: using the Blood Asp as an example again, those weapon "ears" are great, high mounts - but they stick out so far, they can be seen over hills before the Blood Asp can actually shoot over them, allowing experienced players to chip away at the Asp in complete safety (if he can't come over the hill after them.)

Same thing was said about catapults' ears/boxes. They made great shields when you learn how to torso twist. You know what an atlas has over the locust? Fire power and armor. What the locust doesn't have is armor.

[Vonbach]

Blood Rose, on 15 January 2023 - 02:10 PM, said:

Is it just me, or is there a notable tendency for Assault pilots to hang back and refuse to do their share of fighting? Im only asking after noticing this trend for several weeks, the match will be well under way, my mech and usually several other lighter mechs on my team will be badly damaged, having been fighting the enemy and doing our level best, but the Assaults are all almost pristine, with maybe 4% overall damage at the worst, and yet they will sit back and hide, refusing to take part in the fight.
Has anyone else noticed this?

Sorry it is not my job to be your meatwall when I'm playing assaults. Suck it up and take some damage.

[foamyesque]

In my experience it's generally considerably easier to kill an Atlas than it is a Locust :v

[sycocys]

JediPanther, on 23 January 2023 - 01:46 PM, said:

What the locust doesn't have is armor.

For 10 more tons you can pilot an urbanmech and have the same armor as a 50 ton medium mech while being able to spin circles and mess up hit detection.

[SafeScanner]

sycocys, on 23 January 2023 - 02:05 PM, said:

For 10 more tons you can pilot an urbanmech and have the same armor as a 50 ton medium mech while being able to spin circles and mess up hit detection.

and punch above your weight!