177 replies to this topic

[Gilgamesh Hoi]

[ForQAll]

I think people are taking the "nerfs" and "buffs" of mechs and quirks all wrong.

A few of you have rightly stated that some of these mechs getting "nerfs" are the ones people like to play.

Has it ever occured to you then..the reason why people enjoy playing them is because they are just that much better than other mechs?

Some of these small minor needs that are Landing are simply to encourage people to play other mechs.... By bringing some of these mechs down to earth a little.. it makes other mechs in the game more viable.

[KursedVixen]

sycocys, on 23 January 2023 - 01:59 PM, said:

I would say clan LBX is nice as well and ERPPC. HMG is comparable just that clans can generally boat enough to be c-bill farms while you vomit lasers. Have always disliked the clan cannons, the burst is too spread out in timing which basically makes them less useful lbx's with an annoying ticking sound.

Use the normal solid slug LBX like the CAC-2/5/10 the CAC5 fires one shot the 10 fires 2 and the 20 3.... one less than the UAC... and best of all no jamming.

ForQAll, on 23 January 2023 - 06:16 PM, said:

I think people are taking the "nerfs" and "buffs" of mechs and quirks all wrong.

A few of you have rightly stated that some of these mechs getting "nerfs" are the ones people like to play.

Has it ever occured to you then..the reason why people enjoy playing them is because they are just that much better than other mechs?

Some of these small minor needs that are Landing are simply to encourage people to play other mechs.... By bringing some of these mechs down to earth a little.. it makes other mechs in the game more viable.

Well maybe some of us Like to play the mechs because of nostalgia. What you say makes no sense really becuase lets say you bought the BH for money with the warden pack now they nerf it so what did you spend the money for now??

Edited by KursedVixen, 23 January 2023 - 06:59 PM.

[Raydeen]

Except for the maps fixes a bad patch. And there is no way they will nerf IS mechs amor quirks thats how they end run around the IS xl engine weakness.

[Qball11b]

so basically **** over the clan and give the inners more bonuses...got it.

[Tarzan of Barsoom]

Why even keep the Clans in if you are just going to nerf them to uselessness? Bring the timeline to 3025 and then you can just have your beloved Inner Sphere mechs and not worry about the hated Clans.

[Clay Endfield]

KursedVixen, on 23 January 2023 - 06:58 PM, said:

Use the normal solid slug LBX like the CAC-2/5/10 the CAC5 fires one shot the 10 fires 2 and the 20 3.... one less than the UAC... and best of all no jamming.

Well maybe some of us Like to play the mechs because of nostalgia. What you say makes no sense really becuase lets say you bought the BH for money with the warden pack now they nerf it so what did you spend the money for now??

Well I didn't buy the Warden pack for a measly 5 points of armor on the Timby's CT. I bought it because I wanted a ECM capable Timberwolf and Direwolf with unique paint jobs, freaking elemental bolt ons, and C-Bill bonus mechs.

Seriously your argument makes no sense. His totally does. As stated prior, this happens every time something OP is nerfed. Everybody flips out because their popular choice becomes less desirable. This isn't going to kill the Timberwolf, quit acting like it's the end of the world.

[Clay Endfield]

Qball11b, on 23 January 2023 - 07:24 PM, said:

so basically **** over the clan and give the inners more bonuses...got it.

Right. Nerf some top performing mechs because they have access to OP Clan equipment, and buff... the Raven and Panther. Two mechs that are so underpowered it's ridiculous.

You guys keep trying to cast this as a hate crime against clanners, but at the end of they day, it's bringing OP and overused mechs down a peg. Sorry clan tech is OP, get used to seeing clans nerfed and IS mechs buffed because of it.

[sycocys]

KursedVixen, on 23 January 2023 - 06:58 PM, said:

Use the normal solid slug LBX like the CAC-2/5/10 the CAC5 fires one shot the 10 fires 2 and the 20 3.... one less than the UAC... and best of all no jamming.

Would like solid slug as an option. Really do dislike all of the autocannon sounds other than maybe a pile of 2s doesn't wreck the ears too bad.

Tried the regular clan autocannons other than the 5, didn't like them any more than the ultra alternative. Maybe if I cared for assaults and could drop 4 or 6 cac5s I might be more into it. Really rare I even drop with a heavy now that I don't play FP.

Most of my clam mechs are even more niche builds than my IS mechs which is saying something. There's just something entertaining about taking the risk to drop in a 12 micro/4hmg nova and roll the dice whether you are going to do 1200 damage and 7 kills or 40 damage and watch a match. Haven't really dug around in the omni ones I have to see if I can make a srm/mg build which would be a pile of fun for me to run about in. Just being that I only primarily run med and some lights, the majority of them are rather squishy and the IICs are pretty pigeonholed into particular builds - almost worse so than the IS mechs, but they are taking steps to make it the same style of quirking across the board.

Edited by sycocys, 23 January 2023 - 07:46 PM.

[C337Skymaster]

sycocys, on 23 January 2023 - 07:44 PM, said:

Would like solid slug as an option. Really do dislike all of the autocannon sounds other than maybe a pile of 2s doesn't wreck the ears too bad.

Tried the regular clan autocannons other than the 5, didn't like them any more than the ultra alternative. Maybe if I cared for assaults and could drop 4 or 6 cac5s I might be more into it. Really rare I even drop with a heavy now that I don't play FP.

Most of my clam mechs are even more niche builds than my IS mechs which is saying something. There's just something entertaining about taking the risk to drop in a 12 micro/4hmg nova and roll the dice whether you are going to do 1200 damage and 7 kills or 40 damage and watch a match. Haven't really dug around in the omni ones I have to see if I can make a srm/mg build which would be a pile of fun for me to run about in. Just being that I only primarily run med and some lights, the majority of them are rather squishy and the IICs are pretty pigeonholed into particular builds - almost worse so than the IS mechs, but they are taking steps to make it the same style of quirking across the board.

If you're looking for Clan MG/SRM combos in the light/med range, your best bets will be the Mist Lynx, Vapor Eagle, Incubus, Viper, Black Lanner, Nova, Shadow Cat (all capable of 4mg/2srm of some variation or another). Some of those will need hero omnipods, so shop around.

KursedVixen, on 23 January 2023 - 06:58 PM, said:

so what did you spend the money for now??

Give the dog a bone...

[KursedVixen]

sycocys, on 23 January 2023 - 07:44 PM, said:

Would like solid slug as an option. Really do dislike all of the autocannon sounds other than maybe a pile of 2s doesn't wreck the ears too bad.

Tried the regular clan autocannons other than the 5, didn't like them any more than the ultra alternative. Maybe if I cared for assaults and could drop 4 or 6 cac5s I might be more into it. Really rare I even drop with a heavy now that I don't play FP.

Most of my clam mechs are even more niche builds than my IS mechs which is saying something. There's just something entertaining about taking the risk to drop in a 12 micro/4hmg nova and roll the dice whether you are going to do 1200 damage and 7 kills or 40 damage and watch a match. Haven't really dug around in the omni ones I have to see if I can make a srm/mg build which would be a pile of fun for me to run about in. Just being that I only primarily run med and some lights, the majority of them are rather squishy and the IICs are pretty pigeonholed into particular builds - almost worse so than the IS mechs, but they are taking steps to make it the same style of quirking across the board.

I have a rifleman IIC with 4 CAc 5's and one with 6 CAc2s runs well. though i kinda like the 6 CA2's better for that constant fire rate of 6 ac2 pellets, only downside is all the guns are in the arms.

Raydeen, on 23 January 2023 - 07:19 PM, said:

Except for the maps fixes a bad patch. And there is no way they will nerf IS mechs amor quirks thats how they end run around the IS xl engine weakness.

light engine.

Clay Endfield, on 23 January 2023 - 07:31 PM, said:

Well I didn't buy the Warden pack for a measly 5 points of armor on the Timby's CT. I bought it because I wanted a ECM capable Timberwolf and Direwolf with unique paint jobs, freaking elemental bolt ons, and C-Bill bonus mechs.

Seriously your argument makes no sense. His totally does. As stated prior, this happens every time something OP is nerfed. Everybody flips out because their popular choice becomes less desirable. This isn't going to kill the Timberwolf, quit acting like it's the end of the world.

Well you'll have to live with it being more squishy now.

Clay Endfield, on 23 January 2023 - 07:35 PM, said:

Right. Nerf some top performing mechs because they have access to OP Clan equipment, and buff... the Raven and Panther. Two mechs that are so underpowered it's ridiculous. You guys keep trying to cast this as a hate crime against clanners, but at the end of they day, it's bringing OP and overused mechs down a peg. Sorry clan tech is OP, get used to seeing clans nerfed and IS mechs buffed because of it.

you fail to realize that Quick play IS NOT clan vs Is it's clan vs clan vs clan vs IS and IS Vs IS you can't balance Clan vs IS if your balancing for quick play...

Edited by KursedVixen, 23 January 2023 - 09:25 PM.

[Clay Endfield]

KursedVixen, on 23 January 2023 - 09:25 PM, said:

Well you'll have to live with it being more squishy now.

you fail to realize that Quick play IS NOT clan vs Is it's clan vs clan vs clan vs IS and IS Vs IS you can't balance Clan vs IS if your balancing for quick play...

I played the Timberwolf back before it had any armor quirks. This doesn't bother me at all.

You're absolutely right, it's not about IS vs Clan in QP. But if Clan mechs are just better than IS mechs, then why play IS at all? The idea of balance is to level the field as much as possible between all mechs. Clan's mechanical advantages mean that they have to be toned down more to achieve parity with mechs that don't have access to Clan tech. So it stands to reason that Clan mechs are gonna get nerfed more often while IS mechs are going to get buffed more often in search of that happy medium.

Maybe you should tune in to the Cauldron Discord. Take part in the discussion, or at the very least request explanation. Already had one person come in today screaming their head off about Clan nerfs, and the Cauldron explained their reasoning well enough to convince them this was necessary for the health of the game. But you gotta leave this echo chamber behind, cause peeps think with their heads more often than their feelings in the Cauldron Discord. Whether you appreciate the facts or not, the facts are what you're gonna face.

Edited by Clay Endfield, 23 January 2023 - 10:45 PM.

[KursedVixen]

Clay Endfield, on 23 January 2023 - 07:35 PM, said:

Right. Nerf some top performing mechs because they have access to OP Clan equipment, and buff... the Raven and Panther. Two mechs that are so underpowered it's ridiculous.

You guys keep trying to cast this as a hate crime against clanners, but at the end of they day, it's bringing OP and overused mechs down a peg. Sorry clan tech is OP, get used to seeing clans nerfed and IS mechs buffed because of it.

Overused mechs huh I NEVER see mist lynx I don't see many timberwolves either.... i see few hellbringers and the only sun spiders that got a nerf are the hero ones...


Also notice what mechs are used in the jokes??? INNER SPHERE!

All I see in this patch is nerf clans make omni's not omnis add more invisible walls to make more people angry

IF they can add invisible walls they can remove invisible walls.

Edited by KursedVixen, 24 January 2023 - 05:28 AM.

[sycocys]

C337Skymaster, on 23 January 2023 - 08:08 PM, said:

If you're looking for Clan MG/SRM combos in the light/med range, your best bets will be the Mist Lynx, Vapor Eagle, Incubus, Viper, Black Lanner, Nova, Shadow Cat (all capable of 4mg/2srm of some variation or another). Some of those will need hero omnipods, so shop around.

I'll take a poke around and look at those ones, see if Mech DB lets you swap pods. Do like running the Novas and Shadow Cat that I have though the Novas are built super niche, its either 1k+ damage and a pile of kills or 40 damage not really anything in between - super fun to run though.

[KursedVixen]

sycocys, on 24 January 2023 - 05:50 AM, said:

I'll take a poke around and look at those ones, see if Mech DB lets you swap pods. Do like running the Novas and Shadow Cat that I have though the Novas are built super niche, its either 1k+ damage and a pile of kills or 40 damage not really anything in between - super fun to run though.

Don't swap pods PGI forbids it... (you lose s08)

[Duke Falcon]

KursedVixen, on 24 January 2023 - 04:48 AM, said:

Overused mechs huh I NEVER see mist lynx I don't see many timberwolves either.... i see few hellbringers and the only sun spiders that got a nerf are the hero ones...


Also notice what mechs are used in the jokes??? INNER SPHERE!

All I see in this patch is nerf clans make omni's not omnis add more invisible walls to make more people angry

IF they can add invisible walls they can remove invisible walls.

You say something...
True that clan mechs are NO clan mech anyhow...
Just mechs looks like clan mechs...

Why?
Because IF clan mechs would be clan mechs all the IS mechwarriors would cry whole rivers 'till the bitter end on the Fields of Armageddon...

Clans were designed to be equal 1:3 clan:IS ratio. In a multiplayer game that may not work because the latter party would always cry 'cause they lost...

You know, USSR cried so hard in 1941 because german military were just so much better. But then they realised that numbers do count...
I would glad if omnis would perform as they should be! Would be IMBA OP sure. In FP it could be evened by let clanners bring only a binary into combat (10 vs 12 +1-3 mech if we consider the commanding mechs of a company). That would be good.

In QP? Pfff, impossible. But it not mean that clan-tech must be nerfed, nerfed and nerfed. Clan tech could be countered by tactic, coordinated team-play and such. Maybe learn that first instead of NASCAR?
Nerfing stuffs is not a solution for balance or anything because the bad habits and strange play-styles... Deal with those first! Sure there are way prevent idiot NASCAR (who invented that at the first place? Leeroy Jenkins?)...

As for the invisible walls and spots exploited by certain builds and players... UNLOCK YOUR ARMS! Sometimes you would wonder how high places you could aim and hit if you unlock your darned, bloody arms! Try it OhForFSake!

Overall we once again forced to apply a patch what ruin things further. A shame. Patches meant to fix and develop things not the contrary...

A good hint or advice, consider it as a freebie:
Make patches at every three months instead of monthly to have yourself time to CAREFULLY THINK THROUGH what you would done with it! Less failure mays happen...

Oh, unholy dark gods! Better stop it now because set things aflame and watch everything charred... Even if that would be better...

Ja. Have a nice day, dudes!

[TheCaptainJZ]

ForQAll, on 23 January 2023 - 06:16 PM, said:

I think people are taking the "nerfs" and "buffs" of mechs and quirks all wrong.

A few of you have rightly stated that some of these mechs getting "nerfs" are the ones people like to play.

Has it ever occured to you then..the reason why people enjoy playing them is because they are just that much better than other mechs?

Some of these small minor needs that are Landing are simply to encourage people to play other mechs.... By bringing some of these mechs down to earth a little.. it makes other mechs in the game more viable.

Oh no. Can't use that kind of sound logic around here. /sarcasm
I mean, they don't even have to switch mechs. Instead of being a little OP, now they're brought back in line with other mechs. It's just they obviously liked playing those slightly OP mechs because they were having good games in them, so of course now they are upset. I'll admit it--the TBR-BH with laser vomit was my best performing mech. It got nerfed a little. Ok. Oh well. Life goes on.

[TheCaptainJZ]

There's also a lot of "fallacies" floating around this thread:
1. Some say "I never see those mechs in QP, why did they get nerfed?" Just because you don't see them in QP doesn't mean they're not OP. Especially if it's being noticed in other modes. Or even none. They might just be looking at a spreadsheet for all we know.

2. "Maps were fine! Why are you adding invisible walls?" First of all, we have virtually NO details on WHERE or WHAT was specifically changed! "A wall was added to prevent falling in a crevice" or "cap points have been moved" gives us no real information to even discuss. Was it completely changed? Was it moved just 1 foot? We have no idea so there's nothing to complain about yet.

3. "No one complained about this for x years!" That doesn't mean it's good. PGI was notoriously bad at adjusting things ever. They'd come in and do a pass on this or that once in a blue moon. Quirks were never maintained regularly. Thanks to the Caudron, at least they are being examined and something is happening each month.

To PGI and the Cauldron,
It sounds like we need more detailed information in the patch notes for what was changed exactly and why.

Edited by TheCaptainJZ, 24 January 2023 - 09:40 AM.

[T B Kind]

Isn't there usually a sale on mechs that get changed in the patch?

[Clay Endfield]

KursedVixen, on 24 January 2023 - 04:48 AM, said:

Overused mechs huh I NEVER see mist lynx I don't see many timberwolves either.... i see few hellbringers and the only sun spiders that got a nerf are the hero ones...


Also notice what mechs are used in the jokes??? INNER SPHERE!

All I see in this patch is nerf clans make omni's not omnis add more invisible walls to make more people angry

IF they can add invisible walls they can remove invisible walls.

Sounds like you're T4 or T5. Which is probably why you think the 2x HGR Fafnir is so godly. Stats per tier show that the Fafnir does pretty well in T5. Come T2-T1, where players know how to aim and how to prioritize targets, it's performance drops off the map. Besides that, Mist Lynx and Timberwolves are insanely common in T3, T2, and T1.

So your myopic perspective doesn't quite cover the entirety of the dilemma, bucko. It's top-down balancing: They balance based off what a mech can do in the hands of a skilled player, and establish a performance benchmark from the collective average. Mechs that exceed the performance average by a wide margin get hit with the nerfs; mechs that fall short of that average get buffed.

So back to the Timby: a consensus of skilled players determined that it was overperforming, it was analyzed why, Lasvom syncing extremely well with the chassis was the reason, the option then was to either a.) Nerf Clan Laser, or b.) Nerf the Timby.

Option a.) blanket nerfs a bunch of Clan mechs that are okay, or underperforming. Option b.) corrects the problem without creating more.

Apply the dilemma to series of other mechs that were overperforming fir similiar reasons. Option b.) is obviously the best approach.