265 replies to this topic

[sycocys]

https://www.sarna.ne...C3_command_unit
If you wanted to do something to make LRMs fit better include the C3 systems. They are all tag, so master could be a heavier maybe slot increased version of tag as far as the base of the development.

Could have a boosted master so they have a bap-like counter to ecm.

Then C3 and boosted slaves that don't have tag that are 1 slot and low tonnage(.5/1 ton range would fit across the board) for sharing/having access to targeting information. With reduce range bap counter effect on the boosted.

The biggest part of the development input would be forcing a shift/requirement to the targeting systems to require the equipment to share and adding in some sort of UI notification for players to keep them informed/reminded that information systems are required for target sharing.

[MrTBSC]

aimbot ... let´s just ignore that lock has to be established in the first place for it to work otherwise it´s a worse dumbfireweapon than MRMs

if people don´t complain about LRMs they will inevitably complain about
ERLL, GR and ER PPC boaters staying back with their assaults

LRMs are easily mitigated with ECM(and that is used in overabundance not just because of LRMs) and AMS (kitfox and/or Corsair almost negate an entire swarm) and pretty much everyone and their mother will have their mechs skilled in radar deprivation these days ...

LRMs on long range are slower than most weapons, they heavily splash accross a mech if it ain´t artemis LRMs and these REQUIRE direct line of sight

... seriously if your main concern is to be able to juggernaut/brawl with your mech then you should build it as such that it can mitigate fire or WORK WITH your team to not eat the entire LRM blizzard ...


sure i die to LRMs a bunch of times ... i also busted LRMboats a bunch of time close up ...

[LordNothing]

sycocys, on 08 March 2023 - 05:23 AM, said:

https://www.sarna.ne...C3_command_unit
If you wanted to do something to make LRMs fit better include the C3 systems. They are all tag, so master could be a heavier maybe slot increased version of tag as far as the base of the development.

Could have a boosted master so they have a bap-like counter to ecm.

Then C3 and boosted slaves that don't have tag that are 1 slot and low tonnage(.5/1 ton range would fit across the board) for sharing/having access to targeting information. With reduce range bap counter effect on the boosted.

The biggest part of the development input would be forcing a shift/requirement to the targeting systems to require the equipment to share and adding in some sort of UI notification for players to keep them informed/reminded that information systems are required for target sharing.

c3i would be better (you can still just call it c3, thats what mwll does). as its only one piece of equipment and it doesn't go to waste if you have a slave unit and there is no master unit on the field. all mechs in range of a c3i mech get target sharing within the network, and c3i shares data to other c3i units regardless of range (normally they would need to be in range, but i dont think this game supports more than one target pool, this simplifies implementation).

it forces the lerm boats to move with the team, because being too far from the c3i makes indirect fire all but impossible (unless narc/tag). this also brings back light mech scouting in a big way and give low skill light play another way to pay out. all the free target sharing is what relegated lerms to the lower tiers in the first place. more advanced players would be able to coordinate c3 better and leverage lerms-at-range.

strongly support bap buffs. no mech with bap should ever be locked out of targeting. they might have lock penalties if there is too much ecm, but never should your sensors be disrupted so much you cant lock your own targets. also buff lerm features of command consoles and targeting computers. tag and narc should also be buffed. id like to see tag as a lock accelerator restored, because it make a lot of streak, lrm and atm mechs more viable.

i wouldnt mind seeing passive radar become an option as well. cuts your sensor range drastically but makes you harder to detect.

lerms are a weird situation where you have to nerf them before you can buff them. nerf free target sharing, but buff all the things that make lerms easier to use, maybe even the lerms themselves. ultimately you want to see more lerms at high tier and fewer at low tier. more lerms overall, but not used in a dumb, cheap way.

Edited by LordNothing, 08 March 2023 - 07:29 AM.

[Saved By The Bell]

CrimsonPhantom6sg062, on 08 March 2023 - 04:42 AM, said:

Agree with D A T A that lrms shouldn't be so strong in lower tiers.

Hey man, but what about learning process? Through pain in low tiers?

[LordNothing]

Saved By The Bell, on 08 March 2023 - 07:08 AM, said:

Hey man, but what about learning process? Through pain in low tiers?

problem with that is new players learn to fear lerms. then build their mechs full of counters instead of weapons, and never come out of cover. it sets up a lot of bad habits moving forward. if instead they learn that lerms are not a free lunch, they might learn the tactics neccisary to use them effectively, or learn other weapon systems.

Edited by LordNothing, 08 March 2023 - 07:18 AM.

[Saved By The Bell]

I was more aggressive on low Tiers in my first days (on Tier 3-4), I didnt know top levels and was believing in my team.

[Curccu]

MrTBSC, on 08 March 2023 - 06:03 AM, said:

if people don´t complain about LRMs they will inevitably complain about
ERLL, GR and ER PPC boaters staying back with their assaults

Is someone else than data QQing about lurms? I have seen mostly MG(lights are OP... including datas MG lights are OP) and snipy assault QQs past half a Year or so.

[sycocys]

LordNothing, on 08 March 2023 - 07:07 AM, said:

c3i would be better (you can still just call it c3, thats what mwll does). as its only one piece of equipment and it doesn't go to waste if you have a slave unit and there is no master unit on the field. all mechs in range of a c3i mech get target sharing within the network, and c3i shares data to other c3i units regardless of range (normally they would need to be in range, but i dont think this game supports more than one target pool, this simplifies implementation).

it forces the lerm boats to move with the team, because being too far from the c3i makes indirect fire all but impossible (unless narc/tag). this also brings back light mech scouting in a big way and give low skill light play another way to pay out. all the free target sharing is what relegated lerms to the lower tiers in the first place. more advanced players would be able to coordinate c3 better and leverage lerms-at-range.

strongly support bap buffs. no mech with bap should ever be locked out of targeting. they might have lock penalties if there is too much ecm, but never should your sensors be disrupted so much you cant lock your own targets. also buff lerm features of command consoles and targeting computers. tag and narc should also be buffed. id like to see tag as a lock accelerator restored, because it make a lot of streak, lrm and atm mechs more viable.

i wouldnt mind seeing passive radar become an option as well. cuts your sensor range drastically but makes you harder to detect.

lerms are a weird situation where you have to nerf them before you can buff them. nerf free target sharing, but buff all the things that make lerms easier to use, maybe even the lerms themselves. ultimately you want to see more lerms at high tier and fewer at low tier. more lerms overall, but not used in a dumb, cheap way.

I just went with the standard c3 master because it's integrated with tag. if you are playing the role of lrm'er or spotter it seemed like it would fit well.

Don't disagree on the more or less combined function of the improved though so it's not entirely reliant on having a master on the field, but at the same time having the requirement of at least one master would go a long way to shifting the information warfare and probably a fair amount of load outs to reel in a touch off the top of the alphas.

A nice shift towards information warfare would be a good thing to coincide with their proposal for rebranding again.

[BLACKR0SE]

Lockheed_, on 07 March 2023 - 10:38 PM, said:

chain firing for "deterrent" is a T5 urban legend. Doesn't work once you start to play against better players. Also you deal less damage while the enemy gets into cover and/or breaks locks, your stream of missiles is super easy to pick off by AMS and can be even be taken out completely, the blinding effect is something better players aren't that scared off, or they have turned the visuals down so much that there is not blinding effect in the first place.
If you start chain firing weapons except for when you are totally heat capped and absolutely need to get that extra damage out, or in some cases stagger blue lasers you immediately identify yourself to the enemy as a noob.

There's something you forgot, my friend. I am not alone on that map. While I'm firing my missiles someone smashes it pretty well

You can also design the machines individually in this game.
You can design according to the team.
both are choices.

you can also think of it like a rain to show the enemy.
At my level this works. I don't know your level.
I saw the advantage.

[BLACKR0SE]

Curccu, on 07 March 2023 - 11:43 PM, said:

OK you meant Cooldown... I thought "faster" meant velocity.


If enemy is using any kind of cover or has AMS chainfire is bad idea, it just takes too long to deliver all of the potential damage to enemy:
Lock on time --> Missile travel time to locked enemy --> and if you chainfire you can add even more time to those until you have shot your last launcher and enemy should have crawled back to cover way before those last missiles hit.

But sure if there is some fat mech passing some wide open area without any AMS cover then it doesn't really matter if you chainfire or not and it might hinder return fire being constantly rained with lurms.

it's all about your bullet count.
when i build an lrm boat I take as many shells as it can take.

It is also important to keep the temperature controlled.

can be hidden.. It doesn't matter as long as the rain doesn't stop.

Edited by TAMTAMBABY, 08 March 2023 - 11:55 AM.

[BLACKR0SE]

There are too many old players here. There is something I am wondering about.

Is there any difference between lrm versions?
positive or negative ?

[Duke Falcon]

LRMs are bad. Sheesh bad-bad lurms!

...

Seriously?!

Ban\nerf LRMs... Then ER-LLs... Then T1 players?! The circle of devil is easy to step into...

DATA went a bit far, sure. Noone loves when cracked up to be easy prey for other long-range turrets. Understandable...
Mayhaps...

PROPOSAL:

GIVE US THE NUKER URBIE! DATA WOULD SURE LOVE THAT!

Summary:

Just another thread goes nowhere and would have little to no effect...

Consequencies:

Lotsa... Up thy phantasies, yep!

Quote

Is there any difference between lrm versions?

Like what versions? IS vs Clan? Normal vs advanced vs swarm?
We have only normal. IS is better than Clan 'cause hit togetha n not in a fancy row chew'd 'way by da AMS wallz...
Albeit - not checked IF this is true in MWO - clan LRM have no minimal range, launched with armed warheads...

Were I helpfull? No, I usually never is...

[Curccu]

TAMTAMBABY, on 08 March 2023 - 11:43 AM, said:

it's all about your bullet count.
when i build an lrm boat I take as many shells as it can take.

It is also important to keep the temperature controlled.

can be hidden.. It doesn't matter as long as the rain doesn't stop.

bullet --> missiles and count that matters is HITS, shooting terrain or buildings doesn't really do anything else than waste your missiles and raise your heat bar.

TAMTAMBABY, on 08 March 2023 - 11:47 AM, said:

There are too many old players here. There is something I am wondering about.

[sycocys]

TAMTAMBABY, on 08 March 2023 - 11:43 AM, said:

it's all about your bullet count.
when i build an lrm boat I take as many shells as it can take.

It is also important to keep the temperature controlled.

can be hidden.. It doesn't matter as long as the rain doesn't stop.

It's about hit count. A swarm of lrms once you cross into more t3/t2 matches is just throwing most of your ammo into a wall.

By DATA's account, they forgot how to avoid lrms in t1 though so there's that....

TAMTAMBABY, on 08 March 2023 - 11:47 AM, said:

There are too many old players here. There is something I am wondering about.

Is there any difference between lrm versions?
positive or negative ?

IS lrms have a min range. fire in bunches, generally better ammo slot locations
Clan lrms don't have a min range (damage ramp), fire in a stream, often worse ammo slot locations considering armor
I don't use them enough to tell you how well artemis would affect either, but presumably would be more beneficial to the clans with streaming missiles that should have a little tighter grouping.

And yes many of us aren't in our 20s anymore, or 30's for that matter.

[Novakaine]

sycocys, on 08 March 2023 - 01:00 PM, said:

It's about hit count. A swarm of lrms once you cross into more t3/t2 matches is just throwing most of your ammo into a wall.

By DATA's account, they forgot how to avoid lrms in t1 though so there's that....

IS lrms have a min range. fire in bunches, generally better ammo slot locations
Clan lrms don't have a min range (damage ramp), fire in a stream, often worse ammo slot locations considering armor
I don't use them enough to tell you how well artemis would affect either, but presumably would be more beneficial to the clans with streaming missiles that should have a little tighter grouping.

And yes many of us aren't in our 20s anymore, or 30's for that matter.

And 60's

[LordNothing]

yea, its a game of mostly old farts. young players exist though.

[sycocys]

LordNothing, on 08 March 2023 - 01:26 PM, said:

yea, its a game of mostly old farts. young players exist though.

Crossed into 40 myself, enjoy playing a game alongside the older guys more, even when they end up in losses everyone just seems to have a good time with it.
I always have a little chuckle when I hear a youngster on the comms. Some of them are for sure in their mid-teens only, but weirdly they always seem to be far better behaved than the ones that sound to be in their 20s and early 30s. If you guys keep this game floating a few more years there is potential to have players that weren't even born yet when it launched.

[BLACKR0SE]

sycocys, on 08 March 2023 - 01:00 PM, said:

It's about hit count. A swarm of lrms once you cross into more t3/t2 matches is just throwing most of your ammo into a wall. By DATA's account, they forgot how to avoid lrms in t1 though so there's that.... IS lrms have a min range. fire in bunches, generally better ammo slot locations Clan lrms don't have a min range (damage ramp), fire in a stream, often worse ammo slot locations considering armor I don't use them enough to tell you how well artemis would affect either, but presumably would be more beneficial to the clans with streaming missiles that should have a little tighter grouping. And yes many of us aren't in our 20s anymore, or 30's for that matter.

</div>

sorry artemis

Edited by TAMTAMBABY, 08 March 2023 - 03:26 PM.

[LordNothing]

i dont even know what artemis does anymore. they moved the goal post a couple times. i know it reduces spread on srms, thats about it. i seem to remember them once being able to re-aquire targets in flight, if you were to lose lock and get it back before they got there. that worked back when tag was still a lock accelerator, as for what it does now, i have no idea beyond spread reduction.

Edited by LordNothing, 08 March 2023 - 06:20 PM.

[Heavy Money]

LordNothing, on 08 March 2023 - 06:20 PM, said:

i dont even know what artemis does anymore. they moved the goal post a couple times. i know it reduces spread on srms, thats about it. i seem to remember them once being able to re-aquire targets in flight, if you were to lose lock and get it back before they got there. that worked back when tag was still a lock accelerator, as for what it does now, i have no idea beyond spread reduction.

Spread reduction if you have line of sight is all it does for LRMs. Its pointless in most cases.