265 replies to this topic

[RockmachinE]

LRMs have been nerfed time and time again. They are extremely easy to avoid and there are many hard counters. The last nerf made them almost useless and not worth the tonnage. If anything they need a buff.

The game has already been subjected and shaped to the bias of a few. We don't need to do it any further. You already have your version MWO. The balance was great before, now its skewed to the preference of a vocal minority. Stop messing with weapon systems just because you don't like them.

Edited by Louis Brofist, 22 March 2023 - 04:42 AM.

[foamyesque]

Louis Brofist, on 22 March 2023 - 04:26 AM, said:

LRMs have been nerfed time and time again. They are extremely easy to avoid and there are many hard counters. The last nerf made them almost useless and not worth the tonnage. If anything they need a buff.

Precisely. If missiles were as bad as people make 'em out to be everybody'd run AMS on any mech capable of it just like they do ECM, but they don't, and it's not because AMS is bad, it's because *missiles aren't that scary*. They're annoying, but in general people think that extra ton, ton and a half, and 1-2 slots, more valuable as a heat sink (to increase their DoT by 2%) or more ammo than they are at blunting missile salvos.

But ECM is something people are willing to give up *entire guns* to get, and it's not for the missile counter.

Edited by foamyesque, 22 March 2023 - 08:07 AM.

[Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie]

sycocys, on 21 March 2023 - 01:16 PM, said:

From what I derive from DATA's complaint is that LRM's are super op at ~200m in los (and probably behind his direwolf).
-There's no other way the LRMs are hitting and raining through before the audio trigger unless they are that close - plus he's probably running hot (maybe delaying it - with stock audio triggers) and likely running a sound mod (which could be doing who knows what with a poorly rendered audio file for something else).

And if you are flanking that close with most weapon systems then a dire wolf is in trouble,and the rest of them only have a queue after you get hit.

fun facts:
-he's clearly trolling, and ofc is getting away with it, where others would get their share of the banhammer.

-your above scenario is flawed; there ARE no 200mtrs behind him; it's virtually impossible to park something between him and the map-edge at all. rumours say he IS the mapedge. no matter what map - or mode

[pbiggz]

Most powerful anti-LRM countermeasure

[Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie]

pbiggz, on 22 March 2023 - 07:31 AM, said:

Most powerful anti-LRM countermeasure

true.



but here's the thing:
see that spot I marked?

this is "out of bounds in 5, 4, 3.."

and ~1meter in front of that



is where the erLL+Gauss-"magic" happens..

Edited by Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie, 22 March 2023 - 07:49 AM.

[MrMadguy]

Again. LRMs are about teamwork. Teamwork is needed to effectively use them. Teamwork is also needed to effectively counter them. Being selfish and equipping weapons for firepower instead of AMS/ECM - is your personal problem.

[Dr Wubs]

Curccu, on 22 March 2023 - 04:13 AM, said:

real-life indirect fire support, coming into front? LOL! How about 20-70km away with artillery and missiles 50-3000km away from frontline?

And why would we have LONG RANGE MISSILES if we need to shoot them from SHORT RANGE MISSILE ranges?

You just nailed it. Real life artillery doing fire support needs a dedicated spotter to send them the coordinates or a laser to spot. Like I was saying. So let them sit in the back with other people tagging and narc-ing.

[RockmachinE]

MrMadguy, on 22 March 2023 - 08:03 AM, said:

Again. LRMs are about teamwork.Teamwork is also needed to effectively counter them.

There are many ways to counter them effectively even when solo. Teamwork helps, but you can virtually neutralize a LRM threat on your own other then in very specific borderline scenarios. That's what makes them so useless and not in any need of nerfing whatsoever.

[Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie]

Dr Wubs, on 22 March 2023 - 08:58 AM, said:

You just nailed it. Real life artillery doing fire support needs a dedicated spotter to send them the coordinates or a laser to spot. Like I was saying. So let them sit in the back with other people tagging and narc-ing.

real life =|= battletech =|= mwo.

[foamyesque]

Dr Wubs, on 21 March 2023 - 11:14 PM, said:

It would make it like real-life indirect fire support, which is what this person was claiming.

It would require skill: bring your tag up front and stop sitting in the back like a piece of furniture.

Dr Wubs, on 22 March 2023 - 08:58 AM, said:

You just nailed it. Real life artillery doing fire support needs a dedicated spotter to send them the coordinates or a laser to spot. Like I was saying. So let them sit in the back with other people tagging and narc-ing.

These two quotes *appear* contradictory to me. Could you elaborate?

[Curccu]

Dr Wubs, on 22 March 2023 - 08:58 AM, said:

You just nailed it. Real life artillery doing fire support needs a dedicated spotter to send them the coordinates or a laser to spot. Like I was saying. So let them sit in the back with other people tagging and narc-ing.

Yes give coordinates, Push R-key and you got radar lock aka coordinates. If you want more accurate coordinates then tag or narc.

[MrTBSC]

LordNothing, on 21 March 2023 - 10:18 PM, said:

i think getting rid of free c3 would do that a hell of a lot better than more closer more better.

the question is if they have the resources for recreating C3 as equipment
commandconsole has been a rather useless piece of equipment for years and hasn´t been touched since to be worthwhile in any way ...

they say they gonna add new weapons but somehow i doubt they would go all the way to create entirely new mechanics for them so them being able to create actual C3 i find questionable ...

[LordNothing]

MrTBSC, on 22 March 2023 - 12:49 PM, said:

the question is if they have the resources for recreating C3 as equipment
commandconsole has been a rather useless piece of equipment for years and hasn´t been touched since to be worthwhile in any way ...

they say they gonna add new weapons but somehow i doubt they would go all the way to create entirely new mechanics for them so them being able to create actual C3 i find questionable ...

it was more a "they should have" than a feature request. turning a long range weapon into an intermediate range weapon, when intermediate range weapons exist, was what killed it. they should have made it a strong teamwork weapon rather than a weak low skill pug support weapon. it just appeals to the "hold lox plz" crowd and has given the weapons system a bad reputation.

Edited by LordNothing, 22 March 2023 - 06:22 PM.

[sycocys]

MrTBSC, on 22 March 2023 - 12:49 PM, said:

the question is if they have the resources for recreating C3 as equipment
commandconsole has been a rather useless piece of equipment for years and hasn´t been touched since to be worthwhile in any way ...

they say they gonna add new weapons but somehow i doubt they would go all the way to create entirely new mechanics for them so them being able to create actual C3 i find questionable ...

C3 really shouldn't be an issue unless they deleted/removed the mechanics they modified during that target for distance test server.
IIRC they monkeyed with how far mechs could send sharing in that one (scout roles shared furthest), even that much would make a substantial difference in the information warfare aspect. Can't imagine it would be difficult if baked into the code to remove the ability to receive targeting without a computer and set the share distance to 0 or some other quite short range.

CC could be improved by making it buff the same/similar stats for team mechs within a bubble range a bit larger than ecm - or if they made C3 buffing your entire team's share range. And/or make it a hub that can pass targets through and get shares from further.
-If they want to do none of that, make it a hard counter to stealth in a bubble range, or the ability to target stealth with a time/info debuff and decay anywhere in the mechs sensor range.

[Runecarver]

LordNothing, on 22 March 2023 - 06:18 PM, said:

it was more a "they should have" than a feature request. turning a long range weapon into an intermediate range weapon, when intermediate range weapons exist, was what killed it. they should have made it a strong teamwork weapon rather than a weak low skill pug support weapon. it just appeals to the "hold lox plz" crowd and has given the weapons system a bad reputation.

So nobody would be able to run LRMs unless they're grouped up. Meanwhile you can just boat other long range weapons that have optimum ranges nearly the same as LRM's maximum range, have nearly double that in their own maximum range to put some damage into you, and on top of that all hit the same spot rather than splashing.

I'd rather play war thunder if I wanted to just sit still and snipe.

[sycocys]

Runecarver, on 23 March 2023 - 12:53 AM, said:

So nobody would be able to run LRMs unless they're grouped up. Meanwhile you can just boat other long range weapons that have optimum ranges nearly the same as LRM's maximum range, have nearly double that in their own maximum range to put some damage into you, and on top of that all hit the same spot rather than splashing.

I'd rather play war thunder if I wanted to just sit still and snipe.

Well if they implemented it properly, without having the system and/or being in sharing range you'd have no information whether you were sniping the blues or the reds. - A handful of tk penalties and suddenly staying 1.5k back sniping wouldn't be the greatest strategy.

[PocketYoda]

Easily fixed make them get their own locks.. teach them to target themselves to get kills, not to depend on other players to get their targets for them..

That said i've met a few some what disabled players run Lrms because it makes the game easier to play for disabled customers.. I personally dislike Lrms because it forces a certain mindset.. Most sit back in team asking for locks the whole game which can borderline nagging and cause heated arguments..

Good lrm players tend to use certain builds with Lrms and other weapons and move with the team up front, but they are incredibly rare.. in tiers 5-4-3

a great LRM boat is the supernova with two Lrms and 3-4 large lasers etc.. at least thats what i've had successes with.

[Armsracer]

The problem I'm having with missiles not being balanced is that 1/2 ton of ams ammo has 122 shots compared to a 1 ton that has 3000. That's not half that 4% or 1/25. Must be a typo. That's just dumb fix this. Like I run a bunch of builds with a half ton of ams for IS. 122 shots isn't enough for the first 1 or 2 volleys.

[Der Geisterbaer]

Armsracer, on 23 March 2023 - 08:57 AM, said:

The problem I'm having with missiles not being balanced is that 1/2 ton of ams ammo has 122 shots compared to a 1 ton that has 3000.

Where exactly are you taking these numbers from? 1 ton of LRM ammo has 240 "shots" while 1/2 a ton has 120 "shots" before quirks and skills for me on any mech that I'm looking at in my hangar.

[Novakaine]

I think Lurm's and tag need a range increase to be even slightly competitive.
With the Blue Flashlight Mob.
There is literally no counter in the game to the Blue Flashlight.
Fix that.