271 replies to this topic

[Der Geisterbaer]

LordNothing, on 05 May 2023 - 12:01 PM, said:

maybe you are playing the wrong game then.

Maybe you are now deflecting instead of simply admitting to being wrong about something you claimed to be correct.

LordNothing, on 05 May 2023 - 12:01 PM, said:

concessions have to be made for a live game.

~sigh~ And none of that actually applies here where someone made the claim that MW:O has given all mechs C3 by default ... which it hasn't because C3 bonuses have no equivalent here.
MW.O allows indirect missile fire in the purest sense of the Battletech rules.

LordNothing, on 05 May 2023 - 12:01 PM, said:

mwll had a very good electronic warfare system,

But "unfortunately" is entirely irrelevant for MW:O or the particular claim that all MW:O mechs allegedly were given C3.

LordNothing, on 05 May 2023 - 12:01 PM, said:

one of the best ive seen in a game, and to just handwave it away because a manual for a table top game said so is kind of silly.

Nice strawman in conjunction with an underhanded insult. Kudos for that, I guess

Side note: When someone claims that Battletech - as in the table top game - did "this" or "that" then that "manual for a table top game" is exactly where you're supposed to look in order to determine whether or not the claim is correct

[LordNothing]

i really dont care what table top did. i only care what the better mechwarrior games did. games post mwll seem to be on the back slide.

i mean you can use a brick phone or drive a model t. going back to original sources on something thats been in development for several decades is kind of a disservice to any progress made since then. for the better or worse. but when a gold standard presents itself, like the mwll electronic warfare system, it is wise to take note.

Edited by LordNothing, 05 May 2023 - 01:03 PM.

[foamyesque]

I flat guarantee that nobody actually wants to give up the inherent datalink that tells them where enemies are whenever a teammate locks them. It has way more impact on gameplay than simply allowing indirect LRM fire.

[Runecarver]

LordNothing, on 05 May 2023 - 12:38 PM, said:

i really dont care what table top did. i only care what the better mechwarrior games did. games post mwll seem to be on the back slide.

i mean you can use a brick phone or drive a model t. going back to original sources on something thats been in development for several decades is kind of a disservice to any progress made since then. for the better or worse. but when a gold standard presents itself, like the mwll electronic warfare system, it is wise to take note.

Those are some severe rose tinted goggles put on a humongous heap of ignorance right there. Consider playing MW:LL instead, rather than spouting your nonsense here.

[East Indy]

JediPanther, on 29 March 2023 - 05:05 PM, said:

I had to drop a lrm 60 atlas to get any decent damage today and said the hell with it.

This is the key, and goes back to the game's fundamental flaw: too much can be fired at once/in a short time window without diminishing returns. Sounds like things are still balanced around insane amounts of LRMs, so the slightest adjustment marginalizes small/limited racks or enables volleys to dominate non-ECM (or both!). And this is probably the jenga block partly keeping gratuitous long-range PPDFLD in check. What a mess! Always with this game: more, more, more.

[LordNothing]

Runecarver, on 06 May 2023 - 05:31 AM, said:

Those are some severe rose tinted goggles put on a humongous heap of ignorance right there. Consider playing MW:LL instead, rather than spouting your nonsense here.

rose tinted glasses? and the tt crowd dont have those too? especially those who adhere to the og rule set.

mwll was not perfect. it had:

bad collision detection
a skill gradient that kept bad players in crappy mechs
op tanks
no mechlab
lots of graphic glitches
grueling hour long matches

but it did have good electronic warfare in that it actually thought things out rather than putting in a bunch of weak equipment that is token ew at best. by all means maintain the status quo and watch player counts leave.

Edited by LordNothing, 06 May 2023 - 09:20 AM.

[Valasharia]

I started playing this game when it first came out so I know that LRMs have already beern nerfed on at least one occasion. I fully understand some players objection to them since I am just the sort of player they are talking about. That is to say I am not particularly skilled. As a result I stick to mechs that are within my skill level, which is to say heavies and assaults. I have armed them with a variety of weapons. Some have LRMs, some have thunderbolt missiles, some have ATMs, some have large lasers, some have pulse lasers, some have LBX and UAC autocannons, and some have X-pulse lasers. I like all of the weapons, but I must confess that I do best with ranged missile weapons. I also don't see much difference between lobbing missiles at the enemy and sitting at a range of a thousand meters and using long range energy weapons like ER lasers, ER PPCs, and beam lasers while cloaked with ECM. And what about the stealth mechs that cannot even be targeted by most weapons? I've certainly been killed on multiple occasions by these sneaky bandits. The point I am trying to make is that the game has been designed for all sorts of players with all sorts of skill levels and preferences. Get rid of one weapons system because it annoys you and you will lose a lot of players and once the precedent has been set there will be demands for more weapons to be nerfed or eliminated.

[pbiggz]

[VeeOt Dragon]

the trouble is that right now the group in charge of balancing is also one of the biggest haters of all lock on weapons. yeah LRM are easy at the start but as soon as you start going against more skilled players you find the quickly falls off into frustration. it is even worse now days ever since they nerfed the absolute **** out of them. to even use LRM these days you need a minimum of a 45% velocity boost (between quirks and skills) to be able to even reliably hit anything past 400m. they are Long. Range. Missiles. they are supposed to hit things far away. before the nerfs i used to think of LRM as a sort of counter to to things like ER LL and ER PPC builds. yeah you might need a friend to get a spot. honestly LRM are more a suppression weapon something to force the enemy to get to cover. it can be hard to secure kills even before the nerf but you still did plenty of spread damage. hell even in my LRM hay days when i almost always used them i rarely fielded more than a pair of LRM-20s or the equivelent (then again i play exclusively IS mechs our **** is heavy).

hell LRM hate is why i stopped watching 90% of MWO youtubers. when they start bitching like little babies just because an LRM boat looked at them funny they lose all credibility in my book. yeah it sucks to get rained on, don't like it there lots of counters. ECM, cover, hell carry an AMS if you a have a slot. if you a have a single lance where everyone carries a single AMS unit you essentially now have a Corsair 7A'a worth of missile deference for your team.(actually had this happen in a match today, 4 mechs, heavies and assaults moving through the water of Forest with almost impunity from 5 enemy cLRM/ATM boats, barely a handful of missiles got through.)

for a weapon that has the most hard counters in the game the so called "elite" players sure complain about them a LOT.

Edited by VeeOt Dragon, 31 October 2025 - 09:07 PM.

[Duke Falcon]

VeeOt Dragon, on 31 October 2025 - 09:06 PM, said:

the trouble is that right now the group in charge of balancing is also one of the biggest haters of all lock on weapons. yeah LRM are easy at the start but as soon as you start going against more skilled players you find the quickly falls off into frustration. it is even worse now days ever since they nerfed the absolute **** out of them. to even use LRM these days you need a minimum of a 45% velocity boost (between quirks and skills) to be able to even reliably hit anything past 400m. they are Long. Range. Missiles. they are supposed to hit things far away. before the nerfs i used to think of LRM as a sort of counter to to things like ER LL and ER PPC builds. yeah you might need a friend to get a spot. honestly LRM are more a suppression weapon something to force the enemy to get to cover. it can be hard to secure kills even before the nerf but you still did plenty of spread damage. hell even in my LRM hay days when i almost always used them i rarely fielded more than a pair of LRM-20s or the equivelent (then again i play exclusively IS mechs our **** is heavy).

hell LRM hate is why i stopped watching 90% of MWO youtubers. when they start bitching like little babies just because an LRM boat looked at them funny they lose all credibility in my book. yeah it sucks to get rained on, don't like it there lots of counters. ECM, cover, hell carry an AMS if you a have a slot. if you a have a single lance where everyone carries a single AMS unit you essentially now have a Corsair 7A'a worth of missile deference for your team.(actually had this happen in a match today, 4 mechs, heavies and assaults moving through the water of Forest with almost impunity from 5 enemy cLRM/ATM boats, barely a handful of missiles got through.)

for a weapon that has the most hard counters in the game the so called "elite" players sure complain about them a LOT.

Let's clear something already, since MWO put the WHOLE thing wrong...
ALL weapons should NEED A LOCK TO HIT! Otherwise the MUST HAVE a miss-chance. Just because someone point to something for a milisecond and push a button not means her\his weapons already pointed\aimed to the target.

And there are no so called "elite" players among those whom complain about a weapon ever. Elites just know how to use them properly. If one complains it just means she\he cannot use that equipment properly. That is just clearly such easy even if truth may hurt.

Only about 1-2% of the so called "elites" would remain "elites" if weapons, all weapons, should work the right way: GET LOCK DAMMIT!!! But I know that would trully need a high level of skills.

Currently lasers are the most widespread because - just like RACs - they are dumb-proof. Everyone could cause damage with them. ACs, PPCs and Gausses are harder to use, surprise, less frequent to see them than lasers... WHY?! Hard to understand... And then, missiles. Hardest to use because hated and nerfed by those... You get that already many times. They could be used without the indirect fire mode if that what the "elites" dislike. But they meant to be area-denial support weapons like artillery. Please, show me, oh "elites" an artillery what not use indirect fire! And do not tell me AT guns, that is not artillery but could take artillery role. What leads us to the real point: If the "super l33ts" hate indirect fire why missiles useless as direct fire weapons? OK, ATMs works fine, MRMs are so-so. But the long range killed from the LRMs.

So, yes, please, oh "3leets", let this game only have dumb-proof, 6000+ metres range blue-laser show. But then create some dancing animations for the mechs for that disco-ball carnage...

So, either make all weapons need a lock or stop nonsense debates about lock-on weapons OP&vile&touched-us-at-nasty-places...

EDIT:
Before some "l33ts" may criticise me:
I played FP without HUD\target reticule and yes, hit my targets even from a large distance! There is even video about that. And yes, I would gladly play like that again if there would be clear whom are friends and whom are enemies. The appearance of IS mechs on clan side messed visual identifications a lot...
So, no, aim with a reticule is not a skill. Without the reticule, with only your bare eyes, is what need skill.

Edited by Duke Falcon, 01 November 2025 - 12:53 AM.

[Meep Meep]

How do people find these ancient threads to resurrect? Currently lrm and lockons in general are in a pretty good place and reward thoughtful play. If you try to play redline missile hose then yeah you will not get any results and they will seem weak. Atm especially seem to be making a comeback.

[pbiggz]

Meep Meep, on 02 November 2025 - 02:24 PM, said:

How do people find these ancient threads to resurrect? Currently lrm and lockons in general are in a pretty good place and reward thoughtful play. If you try to play redline missile hose then yeah you will not get any results and they will seem weak. Atm especially seem to be making a comeback.

well it was halloween

Edited by pbiggz, Today, 07:26 AM.