277 replies to this topic

[Der Geisterbaer]

LordNothing, on 05 May 2023 - 12:01 PM, said:

maybe you are playing the wrong game then.

Maybe you are now deflecting instead of simply admitting to being wrong about something you claimed to be correct.

LordNothing, on 05 May 2023 - 12:01 PM, said:

concessions have to be made for a live game.

~sigh~ And none of that actually applies here where someone made the claim that MW:O has given all mechs C3 by default ... which it hasn't because C3 bonuses have no equivalent here.
MW.O allows indirect missile fire in the purest sense of the Battletech rules.

LordNothing, on 05 May 2023 - 12:01 PM, said:

mwll had a very good electronic warfare system,

But "unfortunately" is entirely irrelevant for MW:O or the particular claim that all MW:O mechs allegedly were given C3.

LordNothing, on 05 May 2023 - 12:01 PM, said:

one of the best ive seen in a game, and to just handwave it away because a manual for a table top game said so is kind of silly.

Nice strawman in conjunction with an underhanded insult. Kudos for that, I guess

Side note: When someone claims that Battletech - as in the table top game - did "this" or "that" then that "manual for a table top game" is exactly where you're supposed to look in order to determine whether or not the claim is correct

[LordNothing]

i really dont care what table top did. i only care what the better mechwarrior games did. games post mwll seem to be on the back slide.

i mean you can use a brick phone or drive a model t. going back to original sources on something thats been in development for several decades is kind of a disservice to any progress made since then. for the better or worse. but when a gold standard presents itself, like the mwll electronic warfare system, it is wise to take note.

Edited by LordNothing, 05 May 2023 - 01:03 PM.

[foamyesque]

I flat guarantee that nobody actually wants to give up the inherent datalink that tells them where enemies are whenever a teammate locks them. It has way more impact on gameplay than simply allowing indirect LRM fire.

[Runecarver]

LordNothing, on 05 May 2023 - 12:38 PM, said:

i really dont care what table top did. i only care what the better mechwarrior games did. games post mwll seem to be on the back slide.

i mean you can use a brick phone or drive a model t. going back to original sources on something thats been in development for several decades is kind of a disservice to any progress made since then. for the better or worse. but when a gold standard presents itself, like the mwll electronic warfare system, it is wise to take note.

Those are some severe rose tinted goggles put on a humongous heap of ignorance right there. Consider playing MW:LL instead, rather than spouting your nonsense here.

[East Indy]

JediPanther, on 29 March 2023 - 05:05 PM, said:

I had to drop a lrm 60 atlas to get any decent damage today and said the hell with it.

This is the key, and goes back to the game's fundamental flaw: too much can be fired at once/in a short time window without diminishing returns. Sounds like things are still balanced around insane amounts of LRMs, so the slightest adjustment marginalizes small/limited racks or enables volleys to dominate non-ECM (or both!). And this is probably the jenga block partly keeping gratuitous long-range PPDFLD in check. What a mess! Always with this game: more, more, more.

[LordNothing]

Runecarver, on 06 May 2023 - 05:31 AM, said:

Those are some severe rose tinted goggles put on a humongous heap of ignorance right there. Consider playing MW:LL instead, rather than spouting your nonsense here.

rose tinted glasses? and the tt crowd dont have those too? especially those who adhere to the og rule set.

mwll was not perfect. it had:

bad collision detection
a skill gradient that kept bad players in crappy mechs
op tanks
no mechlab
lots of graphic glitches
grueling hour long matches

but it did have good electronic warfare in that it actually thought things out rather than putting in a bunch of weak equipment that is token ew at best. by all means maintain the status quo and watch player counts leave.

Edited by LordNothing, 06 May 2023 - 09:20 AM.

[Valasharia]

I started playing this game when it first came out so I know that LRMs have already beern nerfed on at least one occasion. I fully understand some players objection to them since I am just the sort of player they are talking about. That is to say I am not particularly skilled. As a result I stick to mechs that are within my skill level, which is to say heavies and assaults. I have armed them with a variety of weapons. Some have LRMs, some have thunderbolt missiles, some have ATMs, some have large lasers, some have pulse lasers, some have LBX and UAC autocannons, and some have X-pulse lasers. I like all of the weapons, but I must confess that I do best with ranged missile weapons. I also don't see much difference between lobbing missiles at the enemy and sitting at a range of a thousand meters and using long range energy weapons like ER lasers, ER PPCs, and beam lasers while cloaked with ECM. And what about the stealth mechs that cannot even be targeted by most weapons? I've certainly been killed on multiple occasions by these sneaky bandits. The point I am trying to make is that the game has been designed for all sorts of players with all sorts of skill levels and preferences. Get rid of one weapons system because it annoys you and you will lose a lot of players and once the precedent has been set there will be demands for more weapons to be nerfed or eliminated.

[pbiggz]

[VeeOt Dragon]

the trouble is that right now the group in charge of balancing is also one of the biggest haters of all lock on weapons. yeah LRM are easy at the start but as soon as you start going against more skilled players you find the quickly falls off into frustration. it is even worse now days ever since they nerfed the absolute **** out of them. to even use LRM these days you need a minimum of a 45% velocity boost (between quirks and skills) to be able to even reliably hit anything past 400m. they are Long. Range. Missiles. they are supposed to hit things far away. before the nerfs i used to think of LRM as a sort of counter to to things like ER LL and ER PPC builds. yeah you might need a friend to get a spot. honestly LRM are more a suppression weapon something to force the enemy to get to cover. it can be hard to secure kills even before the nerf but you still did plenty of spread damage. hell even in my LRM hay days when i almost always used them i rarely fielded more than a pair of LRM-20s or the equivelent (then again i play exclusively IS mechs our **** is heavy).

hell LRM hate is why i stopped watching 90% of MWO youtubers. when they start bitching like little babies just because an LRM boat looked at them funny they lose all credibility in my book. yeah it sucks to get rained on, don't like it there lots of counters. ECM, cover, hell carry an AMS if you a have a slot. if you a have a single lance where everyone carries a single AMS unit you essentially now have a Corsair 7A'a worth of missile deference for your team.(actually had this happen in a match today, 4 mechs, heavies and assaults moving through the water of Forest with almost impunity from 5 enemy cLRM/ATM boats, barely a handful of missiles got through.)

for a weapon that has the most hard counters in the game the so called "elite" players sure complain about them a LOT.

Edited by VeeOt Dragon, 31 October 2025 - 09:07 PM.

[Duke Falcon]

VeeOt Dragon, on 31 October 2025 - 09:06 PM, said:

the trouble is that right now the group in charge of balancing is also one of the biggest haters of all lock on weapons. yeah LRM are easy at the start but as soon as you start going against more skilled players you find the quickly falls off into frustration. it is even worse now days ever since they nerfed the absolute **** out of them. to even use LRM these days you need a minimum of a 45% velocity boost (between quirks and skills) to be able to even reliably hit anything past 400m. they are Long. Range. Missiles. they are supposed to hit things far away. before the nerfs i used to think of LRM as a sort of counter to to things like ER LL and ER PPC builds. yeah you might need a friend to get a spot. honestly LRM are more a suppression weapon something to force the enemy to get to cover. it can be hard to secure kills even before the nerf but you still did plenty of spread damage. hell even in my LRM hay days when i almost always used them i rarely fielded more than a pair of LRM-20s or the equivelent (then again i play exclusively IS mechs our **** is heavy).

hell LRM hate is why i stopped watching 90% of MWO youtubers. when they start bitching like little babies just because an LRM boat looked at them funny they lose all credibility in my book. yeah it sucks to get rained on, don't like it there lots of counters. ECM, cover, hell carry an AMS if you a have a slot. if you a have a single lance where everyone carries a single AMS unit you essentially now have a Corsair 7A'a worth of missile deference for your team.(actually had this happen in a match today, 4 mechs, heavies and assaults moving through the water of Forest with almost impunity from 5 enemy cLRM/ATM boats, barely a handful of missiles got through.)

for a weapon that has the most hard counters in the game the so called "elite" players sure complain about them a LOT.

Let's clear something already, since MWO put the WHOLE thing wrong...
ALL weapons should NEED A LOCK TO HIT! Otherwise the MUST HAVE a miss-chance. Just because someone point to something for a milisecond and push a button not means her\his weapons already pointed\aimed to the target.

And there are no so called "elite" players among those whom complain about a weapon ever. Elites just know how to use them properly. If one complains it just means she\he cannot use that equipment properly. That is just clearly such easy even if truth may hurt.

Only about 1-2% of the so called "elites" would remain "elites" if weapons, all weapons, should work the right way: GET LOCK DAMMIT!!! But I know that would trully need a high level of skills.

Currently lasers are the most widespread because - just like RACs - they are dumb-proof. Everyone could cause damage with them. ACs, PPCs and Gausses are harder to use, surprise, less frequent to see them than lasers... WHY?! Hard to understand... And then, missiles. Hardest to use because hated and nerfed by those... You get that already many times. They could be used without the indirect fire mode if that what the "elites" dislike. But they meant to be area-denial support weapons like artillery. Please, show me, oh "elites" an artillery what not use indirect fire! And do not tell me AT guns, that is not artillery but could take artillery role. What leads us to the real point: If the "super l33ts" hate indirect fire why missiles useless as direct fire weapons? OK, ATMs works fine, MRMs are so-so. But the long range killed from the LRMs.

So, yes, please, oh "3leets", let this game only have dumb-proof, 6000+ metres range blue-laser show. But then create some dancing animations for the mechs for that disco-ball carnage...

So, either make all weapons need a lock or stop nonsense debates about lock-on weapons OP&vile&touched-us-at-nasty-places...

EDIT:
Before some "l33ts" may criticise me:
I played FP without HUD\target reticule and yes, hit my targets even from a large distance! There is even video about that. And yes, I would gladly play like that again if there would be clear whom are friends and whom are enemies. The appearance of IS mechs on clan side messed visual identifications a lot...
So, no, aim with a reticule is not a skill. Without the reticule, with only your bare eyes, is what need skill.

Edited by Duke Falcon, 01 November 2025 - 12:53 AM.

[Meep Meep]

How do people find these ancient threads to resurrect? Currently lrm and lockons in general are in a pretty good place and reward thoughtful play. If you try to play redline missile hose then yeah you will not get any results and they will seem weak. Atm especially seem to be making a comeback.

[pbiggz]

Meep Meep, on 02 November 2025 - 02:24 PM, said:

How do people find these ancient threads to resurrect? Currently lrm and lockons in general are in a pretty good place and reward thoughtful play. If you try to play redline missile hose then yeah you will not get any results and they will seem weak. Atm especially seem to be making a comeback.

well it was halloween

Edited by pbiggz, 03 November 2025 - 07:26 AM.

[LordNothing]

what i want is a dumbfire clan midrange system to make up for the lack of mrms and rocket launchers on the clan side. maybe also rocket launchers that make sense. it would have to be apocryphal since no such weapon exists. er srms, improved rocket launchers, maybe big missiles like tbolts but dumbfire.

i think the homing mechanics are going to be as good as they can be. im dying to missiles more, probibly because i treat them like a joke. "i live in a rain forest so whats a little drizzle. oh no my torso just blew up." wouldnt mind seeing some streak lrms. or now that we got those rail guns maybe we can get that arrow iv catapult/urbie as a legend (either 2 or make it a combined pack like the railguns).

no point changing what already works so if you are going to do something, make it new tech. and use those inferno srms on the zombies on your way out.

Edited by LordNothing, 04 November 2025 - 04:50 PM.

[Vonbach]

The simple fact is the devs hate LRMs and would remove them from the game if they could.
They cant so they just made them almost unusable in favor of the blue lazor and gauss crowd.
At this point just remove lrms from the game and get it over with.

[JediPanther]

Vonbach, on 05 November 2025 - 10:27 AM, said:

The simple fact is the devs hate LRMs and would remove them from the game if they could.
They cant so they just made them almost unusable in favor of the blue lazor and gauss crowd.
At this point just remove lrms from the game and get it over with.

Funny how those same devs used lrm as a selling point ever since closed beta when one of the four mechs was a lrm boat. Get rid of 80 point alphas and be done with it. Or is it higher now since I haven't played in years? High ppfd why I left in the first place.

[Meep Meep]

Dunno what game you are playing but lockons were never meant to be anything but a support or specialist weapon even in the lore. They work and work hilariously well if you pick a mech that is specialized for them and then proactively seek your own locks if possible. Slapping lrm on some random mech with some missile hardpoints but no quirks for it is a fast way to sub 200 damage games.

LordNothing, on 04 November 2025 - 04:49 PM, said:

what i want is a dumbfire clan midrange system

They would have to paper napkin in one but yeah it would be nice. Atm dumbfire fairly well if the target is large especially if the mech has a velocity quirk. You can even lead somewhat if they are near hard cover you can shoot at.

[Samziel]

VeeOt Dragon, on 31 October 2025 - 09:06 PM, said:

they are Long. Range. Missiles. they are supposed to hit things far away. before the nerfs i used to think of LRM as a sort of counter to to things like ER LL and ER PPC builds. yeah you might need a friend to get a spot. honestly LRM are more a suppression weapon something to force the enemy to get to cover. it can be hard to secure kills even before the nerf but you still did plenty of spread damage. hell even in my LRM hay days when i almost always used them i rarely fielded more than a pair of LRM-20s or the equivelent (then again i play exclusively IS mechs our **** is heavy).

If we take tabletop as a reference (1 hex = 30 m, though could be wrong here), the LRM max range should be 630m. Not much further than what you should be using them for good efficiency. TT isnt really a good point for balance, but LRMs arent good at their buffed range either.

As for countering snipers, they've never done that effectively. Buffing the velocity too much will make them too strong against anything close before they are good against them. OR the speed will break their tracking first, causing them to overshoot.

Lock ons are fine. Just not braindead good. A good map with a narcer will cause the enemy team to hate the game. Even comp has some viable LRM or ATM strats afaik.

Vonbach, on 05 November 2025 - 10:27 AM, said:

The simple fact is the devs hate LRMs and would remove them from the game if they could.
They cant so they just made them almost unusable in favor of the blue lazor and gauss crowd.
At this point just remove lrms from the game and get it over with.

Hate them so much they've recently buffed clan LRMs and are about to introduce Arrow IV...

Edited by Samziel, Today, 01:19 AM.

[BlueDevilspawn]

Wow a necro thread from forums with a dead search function. No clue how these pop up.

LMAO at "devs hate LRMs" (and by extension these days cauldron). Samziel is correct, we buffed them for the coming patch and are introducing Arrow IV. We don't hate lock-ons, we know how to use them properly and why they're tuned the way they are to avoid a LRMaggedon of years past.

Like ANY weapons system, lock-ons take skill BUT a different type of skill to use. Most direct fire relies on mechanics skill and reflex speed, which is how skill is typically manifested in shooters. And make no mistake, MWO is a tank-style first person pvp shooter.

Lock-on skill is different, it is 1) exposure timing and 2) target movement anticipation. Due to the lock-on and target sharing mechanics in MWO, it means positioning in such a way as to catch out enemies while minimizing damage taken. Given that sometimes the targets are just clueless about their own positioning, this can be mistaken for positioning skill on the part of the lock-on user when in fact it's just luck that the other guy is worse in their positioning.

Given that it's possible to lose this game in 3 ways - mechlab, positioning, and mechanics.... it's no surprise that poor positioning on both parties on either end of lock-ons causes misconceptions of their effectiveness.

Edited by BlueDevilspawn, Today, 10:32 AM.