265 replies to this topic

[foamyesque]

Completely removing C3, so that every mech has ECM essentially by default, is going to have a lot more impact than I think the people proposing here are really thinking through. You think it's only the LRM machines that rely on that info being passed along?

Me, I don't wanna lose my minimap.

[Curccu]

Runecarver, on 24 March 2023 - 07:30 AM, said:

It wasn't removed, it was changed to be the same type as clan LRMs. Where you still deal full damage at 89m, but its rapidly decreases to the point that you're doing 1 damage per standard ppc at 30m.

Yes hard minimum range was removed, and scaling minimum range was added, which PPCs already had Years ago... before we got hard minimum range.

Runecarver, on 24 March 2023 - 07:30 AM, said:

The bigger reason that makes HPPCs feel less important is the fact you can fire 3 standard PPCs without ghost heat penalty, and the increase in other pin point alpha options

You can take two heavies and do same dmg and increase in other pin point alpha options even easier because less tonnage and slots?

[Curccu]

Widowmaker1981, on 24 March 2023 - 08:17 AM, said:

I think the PPC thats mainly useless without HSL quirking is the LPPC. On the light mechs they are aimed at id much rather take 2 Snubs than 3 LPPC - 30 dmg per shot instead of 16.5. I think HSL cap on LPPC should be 4 as standard..

I think they fill bit different roles and are ok because of that, snubbies is semibrawly and LPPCs have good range but less potent in close range compared to snubbies. But really I cannot see it breaking any kind of balance if HSL cap of LPPC would be 4

[Widowmaker1981]

the check engine light, on 24 March 2023 - 10:14 AM, said:

They'd need to find a new stupid mech trick to give to the PNT-KK, JR7-K and PXH-1B (off the top of my head). Would make that one Black Knight stronger though.

They could give them Snub PPC HSL +1. Sure, they would be a bit brokenly good, but that might lead to fewer trashcans in play, and id take that.

the check engine light, on 24 March 2023 - 10:14 AM, said:

Still not entirely sure how drastic convergence issues actually are on spaced hardpoints

Weapons converge at whatever range the reticule is showing when you fire.

So It doesnt matter at all if your target is not moving laterally so you can put the reticule on them, and it doesnt matter a lot if you're above the target even if you do have to lead, since youd be aiming at the ground near them. If they are skylined and you have to lead though, there is no convergence at all as the converge distance will be infinite.
But its more about being able to fire through smaller gaps (Solaris ******) and without having to get the whole mech out of cover than it is about actual convergence, tbh.

Edited by Widowmaker1981, 24 March 2023 - 11:23 AM.

[The6thMessenger]

So is there actually changes with the LRMs since my hiatus?

Last I played, LRMs were kind of useless because of AMS cover, to the point that only the DF fire with TAG is the effective combination, and even then you might as well just use DF weapons.

This sounds like just another salty-pro (probably even the SAME ones way back).

D A T A, on 03 March 2023 - 10:28 AM, said:

PROBLEM

I am sick of a situation where you get hit by missiles so quick that Betty can't even finish saying "warning incoming missile" anymore.
I am sick of seeing most 70-100 tonners without ecm behave just like LRM landing platforms.

Then it's just a YOU problem, isn't it?

Edited by The6thMessenger, 24 March 2023 - 02:22 PM.

[sycocys]

Curccu, on 24 March 2023 - 05:27 AM, said:

Ok let me rephrase is there any weapon in the game that is better as single than multiple of same if we don't account ghostheat. Make a build for that is better with just 1 something instead of many of those (if that mech has tonnage and slots to carry multiple of those)

Anything with tag. Also probably narc.

[Curccu]

sycocys, on 24 March 2023 - 03:55 PM, said:

Anything with tag. Also probably narc.

Not sure if those count as a weapons, at least game doesn't allow you to drop into game with just either of those... claiming you need to have a weapon to drop into game.
Dual narc is actually a thing because AMS, used quite often in RVL-3L Narc builds.

[sycocys]

Curccu, on 24 March 2023 - 05:04 PM, said:

Not sure if those count as a weapons, at least game doesn't allow you to drop into game with just either of those... claiming you need to have a weapon to drop into game.
Dual narc is actually a thing because AMS, used quite often in RVL-3L Narc builds.

Never tried dropping only tag, but its kind of weird because they'll let you drop without ammo.

[L1f3H4ck]

sycocys, on 24 March 2023 - 06:07 PM, said:

Never tried dropping only tag, but its kind of weird because they'll let you drop without ammo.

That's why you put a single, anti-ECM LPPC on a Narcmando

[PocketYoda]

Just make LRMs and ATMs need their own locks and i'd be fine with them.. Having others do your work for you is lazy.

[Blood Rose]

Just make convergence a thing and make weapons require a lock to converge on the target, and ill be fine with them. Having the game do the work for you is lazy.

[Blood Rose]

the check engine light, on 25 March 2023 - 08:28 AM, said:

... You're proposing that the game still do that work, but just take longer and require a targeting box. This will make ECM/Stealth effectively impossible to set convergence on. If players had to manually set convergence like sighting in a weapon the game would become dreadfully complicated, I think.

Wow, imagine that, the top tier loadouts having to cope with the major weakness LRM's do. At least you can walk a laser onto its target.

[Battlemaster56]

PocketYoda, on 25 March 2023 - 07:59 AM, said:

Just make LRMs and ATMs need their own locks and i'd be fine with them.. Having others do your work for you is lazy.

ATM boats already go looking for their own locks, they don't even have indirect fire.

[Curccu]

sycocys, on 24 March 2023 - 06:07 PM, said:

Never tried dropping only tag, but its kind of weird because they'll let you drop without ammo.

I have tried to drop with just Narc and tag in light mech just to lock stuff and doesn't allow, dropping without ammo part is just superior PGI coding .

[Runecarver]

the check engine light, on 25 March 2023 - 08:44 AM, said:

So instead of making LRMs less of a drag you want to make everything else as much of a drag?

It's a fairer solution than the idea that only lock on missiles should have that as another hoop to jump through to be able to use a core weapon of battletech/ mechwarrior.

Edited by Runecarver, 25 March 2023 - 10:31 AM.

[Blood Rose]

the check engine light, on 25 March 2023 - 08:44 AM, said:

So instead of making LRMs less of a drag you want to make everything else as much of a drag?

I would rather buff the everliving hell out or LRM's and make them something to be feared again. But I will take anythig that hurts the sniper meta.

[pbiggz]

the check engine light, on 25 March 2023 - 10:55 AM, said:

It will also make ECM absolutely godly. ECM is already crazy prevalent. Combine this with its bubble effect and you'll have deathballs of ECM covered mechs that are even harder to put down. I'm basically imagining all the knock on effects such a change would have and none of them will really result in LRMs being better off than they were before.

im old enough to remember when the brawler DDC with unnerfed ECM was a competitive meta build.

[LordNothing]

the check engine light, on 25 March 2023 - 10:55 AM, said:

It will also make ECM absolutely godly. ECM is already crazy prevalent. Combine this with its bubble effect and you'll have deathballs of ECM covered mechs that are even harder to put down. I'm basically imagining all the knock on effects such a change would have and none of them will really result in LRMs being better off than they were before.

i think id nerf the bubble entirely on the standard ecm module. you would need a bigger and heavier aecm to have that back.

[Curccu]

pbiggz, on 27 March 2023 - 11:36 AM, said:

im old enough to remember when the brawler DDC with unnerfed ECM was a competitive meta build.

Yep Magic Jesus box ECM was well... just that.

Also RVN-3L/CMD-2D whoopped almost any other mech without ECM in 1on1 with just 2xSSRM2s

[Novakaine]

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