51 replies to this topic

[wamX]

Is there a possibility of seeing AMS getting a buff that doesn't require the skill tree to be functional? (sarcasm). I'm constantly seeing enemy mechs take 6 LRM16s, 8 ATM-3s, and other mass LRM spam.

The LRM problem was only made worse by the wonderful new purple headache of a map since they decided no cover was the best possible thing. Mechs now get torn apart because LRM boats just brain-off and get rewarded for not playing.


For any indication of proof I did a little experiment.

I bought a Catapult C4, Loaded it with 2 M Lasers and 4 LRM-10s + Artemis and about as much ammo as it could carry.

I then sat my Girlfriend who has never played anything even remotely close to MechWarrior in my chair.

I told her "WASD to move, Mouse to look around, mouse buttons to shoot, and press R to target", effectively less info than received in the tutorial on how to play.

I made a bet that she would get a kill in 3 games.

I dropped her into a live 12v12 on Terra Therma Cauldron and said "go"

She got a LRM rain kill on her first match.

I asked her how she felt and she said "I feel like I cheated"


How has the problem gotten this bad where a literally zero experience player with less information than provided in the tutorial can perform? Keep in mind this was an IS mech, which is worse than every clan LRM boat because of minimum range mechanics and similar.

There is no way to mitigate this anymore. AMS or ECM does nothing, and all the quirks built into mechs make it so you get a ~50 missile volley in you before the words pop up on screen and betty says anything. With the new "rebranding" I'm sure it might get even worse since PGI stated new weapon systems were coming which could potentially see Thunderbolts or Arrow IV systems make spamming appearances.

What is there to do anymore except just stop playing?

[feeWAIVER]

wamX, on 10 April 2023 - 08:08 AM, said:

For any indication of proof I did a little experiment.

I bought a Catapult C4, Loaded it with 2 M Lasers and 4 LRM-10s + Artemis and about as much ammo as it could carry.

I then sat my Girlfriend who has never played anything even remotely close to MechWarrior in my chair.

I told her "WASD to move, Mouse to look around, mouse buttons to shoot, and press R to target", effectively less info than received in the tutorial on how to play.

I made a bet that she would get a kill in 3 games.

I dropped her into a live 12v12 on Terra Therma Cauldron and said "go"

She got a LRM rain kill on her first match.

I asked her how she felt and she said "I feel like I cheated"

Plot twist, she wasn't talking about MWO.

[sosegado]

feeWAIVER, on 10 April 2023 - 08:30 AM, said:

Plot twist, she wasn't talking about MWO.

[Curccu]

wamX, on 10 April 2023 - 08:08 AM, said:

Is there a possibility of seeing AMS getting a buff that doesn't require the skill tree to be functional? (sarcasm). I'm constantly seeing enemy mechs take 6 LRM16s, 8 ATM-3s, and other mass LRM spam.

There is no LRM16 in this game and 8x ATM-3 is pretty damn ****** loadout, can't even alpha that without pretty bad ghostheat, old good 3xATM9 is well you do the math... and oh yeah ATMs don't really work on indirect fire.

wamX, on 10 April 2023 - 08:08 AM, said:

The LRM problem was only made worse by the wonderful new purple headache of a map since they decided no cover was the best possible thing. Mechs now get torn apart because LRM boats just brain-off and get rewarded for not playing.

So there is now one good map for lurms? And few almost impossible to play maps sounds fair.. you should have experienced old Polar highlands... oh good old lurm cry times.

wamX, on 10 April 2023 - 08:08 AM, said:

For any indication of proof I did a little experiment.

I bought a Catapult C4, Loaded it with 2 M Lasers and 4 LRM-10s + Artemis and about as much ammo as it could carry.

I then sat my Girlfriend who has never played anything even remotely close to MechWarrior in my chair.

I told her "WASD to move, Mouse to look around, mouse buttons to shoot, and press R to target", effectively less info than received in the tutorial on how to play.

I made a bet that she would get a kill in 3 games.

I dropped her into a live 12v12 on Terra Therma Cauldron and said "go"

She got a LRM rain kill on her first match.

Solo kill? How much total damage done? Matchscore? And how many times you repeated this scientific experiment?

wamX, on 10 April 2023 - 08:08 AM, said:

I asked her how she felt and she said "I feel like I cheated"

How has the problem gotten this bad where a literally zero experience player with less information than provided in the tutorial can perform?

Gotta ask... your tier?
And clearly she has some FPS gaming experience.

wamX, on 10 April 2023 - 08:08 AM, said:

Keep in mind this was an IS mech, which is worse than every clan LRM boat because of minimum range mechanics and similar.

AMS you dissed earlier works way better against clan LRMs, personally I prefer IS LRMs, they are better IMO (combined with usually better IS quirks)

wamX, on 10 April 2023 - 08:08 AM, said:

There is no way to mitigate this anymore. AMS or ECM does nothing, and all the quirks built into mechs make it so you get a ~50 missile volley in you before the words pop up on screen and betty says anything.

AMS shoots down missiles, multiple AMS shoots down more missiles and yes If you take AMS just take the skill nodes because why not? ECM works but if you stay on open extended period of times you will eat missiles.
Only Velocity quirks help in situation you are describing and not many mechs have good missile hardpoints AND good velocity quirks.

wamX, on 10 April 2023 - 08:08 AM, said:

What is there to do anymore except just stop playing?

L2P. Git gud and so on? Yes sorry You asked for it.
Or try this tns-5s if you still have issues with lurms playing this then it is 1000% You problem.

[Duke Falcon]

feeWAIVER, on 10 April 2023 - 08:30 AM, said:

Plot twist, she wasn't talking about MWO.

Sorry but I just laughed loudly and hardly upon this piece of gem!

Quote

AMS you dissed earlier works way better against clan LRMs, personally I prefer IS LRMs, they are better IMO (combined with usually better IS quirks)

One reason I not use IS lrm anymore. Clan lurmin' offer some more challenge knowing that noone in the team would help me (not ask locks, not sure why others do). My new hobby is LURM-brawling with my Novacat, direct LOS within 500m... GREAT FUN!!!
Ummm...
Try it if you wish, but keep in mind that my sanity is rarely human anymore (or it is, who knows?)... Not say I am bat crazy just sumtimez I do bat crazy!

Quote

I then sat my Girlfriend who has never played anything even remotely close to MechWarrior in my chair.

I told her "WASD to move, Mouse to look around, mouse buttons to shoot, and press R to target", effectively less info than received in the tutorial on how to play.

I let my sis play a few games with my 6xcUAC5s Dire whale and she straight-pawned three matches... So, after LRMs we curse UACs because sisters\girlfriends\grandmas could play a few matches having beginners' luck?!

+OH ANOTAH SUCHZ TOPIC?!? JA, IT IZ!!!

[foamyesque]

AMS is hugely more efficient at stopping LRMs than LRMs are at getting through it. Sacrifice a heat sink and even a single AMS can significantly degrade LRM effectiveness; double or triple AMS will handcuff a pure LRM machine and diminish even multiple synced volleys.

The balance is fine. Particularly once you're out of T5 and more of your team knows the counterplays to LRMs and to shoot UAVs.

[Magnus Santini]

AMS and ECM should have to have lock to interfere with an incoming missile. Balance restored? That would not decrease the amount of points players get for running AMS. PGI should also implement dumbfire AMS "spray and pray," and dumbfire ECM "electromagnetic pulse." I can only supply so much dumb.

[Heavy Money]

LRMs are easy to counter with proper positioning and awareness, especially with 3 Radar Dep nodes, which should always be taken for many reasons. AMS is quite effective when boated. ECM is the main counter to LRMs.

LRMs are basically worthless in higher tiers unless you have a dedicated spotter/NARCer. They are effective in lower tiers because people are incredibly sloppy. Any nerf to LRMs makes them even more of a low tier only weapon.

[Saved By The Bell]

I just looked year-old DATA video yesterday.

You can see 2 LRM Fafnir's + narc raven defeating weak enemy team.

Lets check, how many AMS were used by enemy team, only 2 AMS

Edited by Saved By The Bell, 10 April 2023 - 11:03 PM.

[Curccu]

Saved By The Bell, on 10 April 2023 - 10:53 PM, said:

Lets check, how many AMS were used by enemy team, only 2 AMS

Yep not many people bother with AMS as hardcover and amount of ECM on the field is more than sufficient nowadays but last autumn there was some do missile damage event and played with friend of mine, both using something like this cor-7a not many LRMs went through. we burned through all the AMS ammo every game if we survived to the end.

edit: typo.

Edited by Curccu, 11 April 2023 - 03:46 AM.

[OMEGAsBeast]

Please delete.

Edited by OMEGAsBeast, 11 April 2023 - 07:54 AM.

[Vellron2005]

wamX, on 10 April 2023 - 08:08 AM, said:

Is there a possibility of seeing AMS getting a buff that doesn't require the skill tree to be functional? (sarcasm). I'm constantly seeing enemy mechs take 6 LRM16s, 8 ATM-3s, and other mass LRM spam.

The LRM problem was only made worse by the wonderful new purple headache of a map since they decided no cover was the best possible thing. Mechs now get torn apart because LRM boats just brain-off and get rewarded for not playing.


For any indication of proof I did a little experiment.

I bought a Catapult C4, Loaded it with 2 M Lasers and 4 LRM-10s + Artemis and about as much ammo as it could carry.

I then sat my Girlfriend who has never played anything even remotely close to MechWarrior in my chair.

I told her "WASD to move, Mouse to look around, mouse buttons to shoot, and press R to target", effectively less info than received in the tutorial on how to play.

I made a bet that she would get a kill in 3 games.

I dropped her into a live 12v12 on Terra Therma Cauldron and said "go"

She got a LRM rain kill on her first match.

I asked her how she felt and she said "I feel like I cheated"


How has the problem gotten this bad where a literally zero experience player with less information than provided in the tutorial can perform? Keep in mind this was an IS mech, which is worse than every clan LRM boat because of minimum range mechanics and similar.

There is no way to mitigate this anymore. AMS or ECM does nothing, and all the quirks built into mechs make it so you get a ~50 missile volley in you before the words pop up on screen and betty says anything. With the new "rebranding" I'm sure it might get even worse since PGI stated new weapon systems were coming which could potentially see Thunderbolts or Arrow IV systems make spamming appearances.

What is there to do anymore except just stop playing?

Here we go again.. Another LRM griefer...

And getting sniped to death by a gazillion large lasers / PPCs/ Gauss is fun?

FINALLY we get a descent LRM map, and now that's a big problem? Bet you did a little victory dance when they ruined Polar..

It's because of people like this why we can't have nice things..

How come I almost never get LRMd to death? And I get LRMd alot.. just as much as anyone else really... Because I understand the menaning of COVER.

But whiners gonna whine..

[Leadpaintchips]

Vellron2005, on 11 April 2023 - 07:55 AM, said:

Here we go again.. Another LRM griefer...

And getting sniped to death by a gazillion large lasers / PPCs/ Gauss is fun?

FINALLY we get a descent LRM map, and now that's a big problem? Bet you did a little victory dance when they ruined Polar..

It's because of people like this why we can't have nice things..

How come I almost never get LRMd to death? And I get LRMd alot.. just as much as anyone else really... Because I understand the menaning of COVER.

But whiners gonna whine..

And it's not even like the old polar where there's no way to break locks or any terrain to block missiles either. There's plenty of places on the map that someone can play the strengths of their build, regardless of what the build is. It's a decent map for everything, which is a good thing.

[sycocys]

The new map is almost entirely made out of lrm breaks if you are smart enough to shoot down uav's and lights flanking.

Other guys have far more experience/success with ATMs than I do, but as far as I can tell by comparing them to srm/mrms they just suck - they are like streaks but worse because if you do dumb fire them you have to either aim at their feet or try to lob them at the top of a hill line. As a brawling medium player ATMs are probably the only weapon I fear less than LRMs, you'd literally do better to run a bunch of streaks if you don't want to aim.

LRM's aren't particularly great either. They do okay in lower tiers, and slightly above useless in higher tiers as a secondary weapon on well quirked mechs. You can do interesting things with them like non-lock fire a sniper that isn't focused on you (DATA hates this mechanic by the way), or lob them in chunks into a deathball.
They are countered by skills, any terrain/buildings, ecm/stealth, speed - just close on them even clan LRMs are next to useless when you get close - haven't used AMS since maybe FP was still popular, but it still knocks down the count if you haven't figured out how to manually counter them by moving.

[An6ryMan69]

AMS buff???

When there are mechs out there with four AMS systems that can basically shut down LRM60 from a heavy or assault mech???

Umm...nope.

LRM's are the easiest weapon in the game to avoid and the game kind of already hates them.

I mean you literally get a sensor warning when someone is shooting at you with missles...even an enemy you didn't know was there as they hide on the other side of a mountain...a sensor warning from MWO sensors that can't "sense" a lance of Atlases five feet behind you...but can magically warn you of missles 1000 meters away...

Seriously now.....

[JediPanther]

If you can't doge a projectile that goes less than 300 ms compared to the 3-4x times faster acs and gauss then try w a s d faster next time.Now if I could reporgram ams to be abs and shoot down any and all ac then I could complain about how op acs are oh and i want a flashing red text saying incoming ac with an audio clue as well.

[sycocys]

An6ryMan69, on 11 April 2023 - 07:38 PM, said:

I mean you literally get a sensor warning when someone is shooting at you with missles...

Pretty sure its just when locked missiles are fired, don't believe dumb fired lrm/atm triggers it which would be how dire snipers eat 3+ salvos before getting the warning. Too much zoom, not enough field view.

[VeeOt Dragon]

honestly AMS and LRM are pretty well balanced. oh LRM could use a slight buff (nothing to the system itself but a slight increase to your lock area would be helpful.)

all i ca say is that if you are dying to LRM fire and you mech isn't using an AMS thats a you problem. i almost always bring one if i can spare at least a ton (1 AMS and 1/2t ammo does just fine for most matches since in the tiers i often get matched with there isn't a whole lot of LRM fire.). also remember that AMS works against all missile systems including SRMs though its not as effective against them since the rang is so short. hell even someone like me who likes using LRM will bring out my Corsair-7A if i notice a large number of LRM boats being played on a given day. (honestly they need to give more rewards for running support systems like AMS, TAG, UAV, and that sort of thing (not ECM though, way to much ECM on field as it is now days))

[Michelle Branch]

LRMs are about as braindead as it gets. Sit in the back. Wait for a lock. Press a button. Riveting gameplay. I took an LRM Jaeger for a spin and did 800. Drunk. I could probably put an armless hobo behind the screen and he'd succeed by slapping his face on the keyboard, tongue punching the mouse button.

They haven't changed from 4 years ago, and they play the same now.

They're fine where they are. They don't need a buff, they don't need a nerf. They're niche. They'll outright fail on maps like Solaris.

[D A T A]

i feel the same way....LRM play ******* sucks, it's no skill aimbot cancer and should get nerfed