44 replies to this topic

[martian]

evil kerensky, on 01 May 2023 - 12:29 AM, said:

this is so incorrect.

they gave the c out not too long ago, i know because i have it, and i dont buy clan mechs.

You know, crazytimes was joking.

evil kerensky, on 01 May 2023 - 12:29 AM, said:

also, its seen at the higher teirs of quickplay quiet often, and fw on extreme range maps. the current meta is 5cerll, and 2 cgauss. fire 3 and 2 on the lasers, and gauss whenever. if you can keep your aim steady and you minmax the omnipod quirks, your looking at an 85dmg alpha from 8-900m away, with near hitscan gauss.

theres a reason we saw so many when they did clan only on hpg. i saw 12 at one time during that 8v8 event

Yeah, the Daishi can be pretty strong, if the situation is right.

[crazytimes]

evil kerensky, on 01 May 2023 - 12:29 AM, said:

this is so incorrect.

Hello and welcome to the internet. Sometimes, you'll find incredibly obvious sarcasm.

[w0qj]

I feel that 48kph Dire Wolf is too slow, and 52kph would be my wish for Dire Wolf to keep up with NASCAR...

Perhaps the Legendary Dire Wolf would have +10% Top Speed and +20% Reverse Speed (ie: +5% Top Speed in each of its legs, & +10% Reverse Speed in each of its legs)?

I would buy multiple copies of this Legendary Dire Wolf in such a case

fyi, I own 4x DWF-A(P), 5x DWF-UV, and own 1x DWF-C(S)

(Now, I wish I can buy even more DWF-C(S) for my MechLab stable!)

Edited by w0qj, 01 May 2023 - 01:55 AM.

[PocketYoda]

Kanil, on 30 April 2023 - 02:39 PM, said:

Funny how people always seem to make these threads about the Dire Wolf and Timber Wolf, but never about the Jenner. What's up with that...?

How on earth is the Jenner too slow.. That said if its not Lore speeds i'm all in for getting them accurate..

[PocketYoda]

martian, on 01 May 2023 - 12:10 AM, said:

Actually, my original post is correct and I am posting the screenshot of the relevant formula taken right from the BattleTech rules - 'Mech design section:


Perhaps you could "glance at the construction rules" for yourself.

Almost forgot: According to the rules, 'Mechs are walking, not cruising. Vehicles are cruising ...



LOL

MechWarrior Online has never been a 1:1 simulator of the tabletop BattleTech rules ... and much less a 1:1 simulator of the BattleTech fluff.



Sorry, but your complaints are about a decade late.

Nobody is going to rework the MechWarrior Online completely from the grounds up - definitely not in 2023.

Ok i found it in construction but that movement is based off a standard 300 engine not a clan XL 300? So an XL 300 is half the weight of a standard 300 which is 19 tons so 9.5 tons.

Edited by PocketYoda, 01 May 2023 - 04:49 AM.

[martian]

PocketYoda, on 01 May 2023 - 04:21 AM, said:

Movement
(MovementPhase)
During the Movement Phase of each turn, players must choose one movement mode for each ’Mech they control: standing still, walking, running or jumping.

Movement Modes
At the beginning of each ’Mech’s movement, a player must select one (and only one) of the following movement modes.

Standing Still
If the player declares that a ’Mech will stand still, the ’Mech stays in the hex in which it started the turn. It can expend no MP during that turn and cannot move or change facing. Standing still provides no penalty to the ’Mech’s own weapons fire, nor that of any other ’Mechs which attack it.

Walking
If the player declares that a ’Mech will walk, it may expend a
number of MP up to its Walking MP rating. A walking ’Mech suffers a +1 Target Number modifier when making attacks. A walking ’Mech may also be harder to hit. These combat effects appear on the Attack Modifiers Table found on p. 7 and are further explained underFiring Weapons, p. 5

Running
A ’Mech can move farther in a turn when running than walking. However, a ’Mech cannot move backward while running. If the player declares that a ’Mech will run, it may expend a number of MP up to its Running MP rating. A running ’Mech suffers a +2 Target Number modifier when making attacks, but its speed may make it harder to hit. These combat effects appear on the Attack Modifiers Table found on p. 7 and are further explained underFiring Weapons, p. 5.

Jumping
A ’Mech which possesses Jumping MP may select this movement mode and expend up to that many MP. A jumping ’Mech suffers a +3 Target Number modifier when making attacks, but may be harder to hit. These combat effects appear on the Attack Modifiers Table found on p. 7 and are further explained underFiring Weapons, p. 9. Jumping features numerous exceptions to the basic movement rules; seeJumping Movement, at right.
MOVEMENTCOSTSTABLE
Movement Action/Terrain TypeMP Cost Per Hex/Terrain Cost
Cost to Enter Any Hex1
Terrain Cost When Entering Any New Hex
Clear+0
Light Woods+1
Heavy Woods+2
Additional Movement Actions Facing Change1/hexside

No where does the rules state what you are saying..

I really do not know why you copypasted the description of the Movement Phase of the BattleTech gameplay.

[martian]

PocketYoda, on 01 May 2023 - 04:21 AM, said:

Ok i found it in construction but that movement is based off a standard 300 engine not a clan XL 300? So an XL 300 is half the weight of a standard 300 which is 19 tons so 9.5 tons.

That has nothing to do with the 'Mech speed.

[foamyesque]

PocketYoda, on 01 May 2023 - 04:21 AM, said:

Ok i found it in construction but that movement is based off a standard 300 engine not a clan XL 300? So an XL 300 is half the weight of a standard 300 which is 19 tons so 9.5 tons.

All the actual movespeed calculation has ever cared about is the engine rating and the mech tonnage.

300 / 100 = 3, XL or not.

Edited by foamyesque, 01 May 2023 - 05:40 AM.

[Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie]

PocketYoda, on 30 April 2023 - 08:44 PM, said:

Well Polar, Rubellite or Alpine.. Would like to have a word with you.. try keeping up with the team as a Direwhale in the 3-5 mins walk to the enemy in one.. its excruciating..

Alpine you are usually a massive target plodding along in the open at 48-52kph..

well, first and foremost: FEEL FREE to jarl me and put numbers into context.
in fact, you should do that with most people around here. as said: gives context.
onto the subject at hand:

"keeping up with the team" .. I'll skip the wall of text and sum it up with: "then you're doing it wrong".

some advice:
don't select a dire if you already think it's too slow for what you want to do; pick up a faster mech.
give it a few weeks/months. you'll likely run into somebody 90%+ in a dire, and
IF you use that 'meeting' to learn from, you'll understand what he's doing right and what you're doing wrong atm.

..or you could always open the next thread about how assaults are bad mechs that need a buff,
lights are too strong or whatever

Edited by Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie, 01 May 2023 - 05:59 AM.

[SmokedJag]

PocketYoda, on 01 May 2023 - 04:21 AM, said:

Ok i found it in construction but that movement is based off a standard 300 engine not a clan XL 300? So an XL 300 is half the weight of a standard 300 which is 19 tons so 9.5 tons.

Clans just get the same thing for half the weight. This is something that carried over to MWO, while MWO massively nerfed other aspects of BattleTech clanners. In the tabletop, there are none of the balance factors that make Clan tech a different flavor. It's just flat better. Clan UAC 20? Yeah it fires 20 damage slugs. Clan ERPPC? 15 damage (giving more range, no minimum range and more damage, including enough for instant death if it hits head). Burn time? Doesn't exist. And they're much more accurate to begin with.

The balancing factor is point cost and also that Clan players are supposed to RP semi-fair fights. A tabletop Dire Wolf can legitimately kill an entire opposing lance. And I mean a heavy or assault lance. They can do that here too, but it's a reasonable expectation in the tabletop.

[LordNothing]

the best skill any assault pilot can master to up their game is light fighting. if you can do that you can position any damn where you please and dominate the battlefield and no booty pirate can harm you. best way to get insight on lights is to run them and try anti-assault tactics. if you cant do that you are better off sticking with the team. map knowledge and proper positioning helps, and is a good number 2. reason its not #1 is you cannot position if you are dead.

[An6ryMan69]

You mean guys aren't automatically dumping every skill point they can into acceleration, top speed, turning and torso twist rate on their 100 tonners?

Yeesh, these babies are just ugly slow and cumbersome, even skilled up....unskilled is just punishment to play.

I'd run an unskilled flea around all day without complaining, but NO WAY in a Dire Wolf or anything similar.

[TheCaptainJZ]

Speed Tweak nodes should totally offer different % bonuses based on mech weight class.
I think it's 1.5% now. For Lights, leave it. For Mediums, make it 2%. For Heavies, 2.5%, for Assaults, 3%, per node. That gives Assaults up to 15% speed boost. 1.15% * 48.6 kph = 55.89. Not great, but at least it's an actual boost for the slowest mechs and not wasted skill points. You could go a little higher and make it 3.5% per node for 57.11 kph. You just have to be sure not to overdo it for fast mechs too. The original skill was + 10 kph for any mech with the Elite skill tier unlocked.

[foamyesque]

An6ryMan69, on 01 May 2023 - 12:09 PM, said:

You mean guys aren't automatically dumping every skill point they can into acceleration, top speed, turning and torso twist rate on their 100 tonners?

Yeesh, these babies are just ugly slow and cumbersome, even skilled up....unskilled is just punishment to play.

I'd run an unskilled flea around all day without complaining, but NO WAY in a Dire Wolf or anything similar.

I've better things to do with my skill points on a 100-ton machine than try and squeeze a couple more KPH out. Range always, structure and armour always, extra consumable always, full seismic and radar deprivation always, and almost always every single bit of heat management I can grab. And then if I have spare points, cooldown or torso twist.

[Widowmaker1981]

LordNothing, on 01 May 2023 - 06:18 AM, said:

the best skill any assault pilot can master to up their game is light fighting. if you can do that you can position any damn where you please and dominate the battlefield and no booty pirate can harm you. best way to get insight on lights is to run them and try anti-assault tactics. if you cant do that you are better off sticking with the team. map knowledge and proper positioning helps, and is a good number 2. reason its not #1 is you cannot position if you are dead.

Imo, what it comes down to with lights is weapon choice. Lasers are terrible for flighting lights, especially long burn ones.. PPFLD stuff is pretty much a direct counter if you can aim at all, but clans dont really get access to much of that (just ERPPCs and Gauss, neither of which are particularly ideal due to the charge time / being really hot).

So, an IS assault like a MAD-6S or KGC with Snubs/AC20? Yeah, i love it when lights try to mess with me driving something like that, nothing more satisfying than deleting one of those irritating little f*cks. A 6 ERLL Blasp on the other hand is just.. fudged if its caught out alone, its highly unlikely to be able to fight back effectively (barring a massive skill disparity)

[PocketYoda]

Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie, on 01 May 2023 - 05:54 AM, said:

well, first and foremost: FEEL FREE to jarl me and put numbers into context.
in fact, you should do that with most people around here. as said: gives context.
onto the subject at hand:

"keeping up with the team" .. I'll skip the wall of text and sum it up with: "then you're doing it wrong".

some advice:
don't select a dire if you already think it's too slow for what you want to do; pick up a faster mech.
give it a few weeks/months. you'll likely run into somebody 90%+ in a dire, and
IF you use that 'meeting' to learn from, you'll understand what he's doing right and what you're doing wrong atm.

..or you could always open the next thread about how assaults are bad mechs that need a buff,
lights are too strong or whatever

I do not drive Direwhales anymore and seldom use Annihilators these days.. So you got your wish i guess, far to slow to be properly viable these days, way better choices of assault mechs out there for me.

Edited by PocketYoda, 02 May 2023 - 05:08 AM.

[Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie]

it's not my "wish", it's just a sad truth;
(and always was)

use slowmechs at your own risk in quickplay. can't blame a "team" if the mode expressively states
"we'll mash 24yolos into 2 ugly packages and don't care how it tastes (we're PGI, you're welcome)".


btw: didn't enjoy running slowstuff in QP, either. but then I didn't enjoy QP in the first place.

Edited by Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie, 02 May 2023 - 06:05 AM.

[LordNothing]

Widowmaker1981, on 02 May 2023 - 03:16 AM, said:

Imo, what it comes down to with lights is weapon choice. Lasers are terrible for flighting lights, especially long burn ones.. PPFLD stuff is pretty much a direct counter if you can aim at all, but clans dont really get access to much of that (just ERPPCs and Gauss, neither of which are particularly ideal due to the charge time / being really hot).

So, an IS assault like a MAD-6S or KGC with Snubs/AC20? Yeah, i love it when lights try to mess with me driving something like that, nothing more satisfying than deleting one of those irritating little f*cks. A 6 ERLL Blasp on the other hand is just.. fudged if its caught out alone, its highly unlikely to be able to fight back effectively (barring a massive skill disparity)

pulse works if you got a lot of duration quirks. srms are also fine, but not ideal if you are in a ranged build. but il agree ballistics and ppcs is where its at. most can pull off a one hit legging. smaller guns need more but you can make it work. even lbs are useful for core shots. and streaks are the crutch for those who cannot aim. most lights will go the other way if they even see streaks in your loadout. but its a waste of tonnage i think.

i see lots of mechs panic and dump a 70 point alpha, miss, and either end up cooking off or shutting down and giving the light a free head/back shot. so keeping calm, rolling damage, and taking good well aimed shots is a better approach. back to wall helps but i can usually fake a light so its own inertia carries it into my firing arc before i need to consider doing that. a uav is standard equipment.

[LordNothing]

Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie, on 02 May 2023 - 06:04 AM, said:

it's not my "wish", it's just a sad truth;
(and always was)

use slowmechs at your own risk in quickplay. can't blame a "team" if the mode expressively states
"we'll mash 24yolos into 2 ugly packages and don't care how it tastes (we're PGI, you're welcome)".


btw: didn't enjoy running slowstuff in QP, either. but then I didn't enjoy QP in the first place.

i dont think the problem is so much the engine as it is the lack of w. dont stop, dont bump into eachother, dont block chokes and path well and you can get to the useful positions in a slow mech in a reasonable amount of time. its sad seing people in 60+ kph mechs in the spawn grid while king crabs, annihilators, dires and stock freaking urbies are already in position.

Edited by LordNothing, 02 May 2023 - 07:09 AM.

[Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie]

LordNothing, on 02 May 2023 - 07:08 AM, said:

i dont think the problem is so much the engine as it is the lack of w. dont stop, dont bump into eachother, dont block chokes and path well and you can get to the useful positions in a slow mech in a reasonable amount of time. its sad seing people in 60+ kph mechs in the spawn grid while king crabs, annihilators, dires and stock freaking urbies are already in position.

I agree.
still, if you're going slow-as-f*ck and your team decides to rotatoe it out, you WILL be left behind.
running after them with a "wait for me..!" just doesn't work.
in an assault, you not only have to "accept" that, you have to plan for that.
and people who do that usually do fine/good/very good in them.
from memory, assaults are my best performers in QP.

doesn't mean I have to like it, though
doing something "well enough" doesn't mean you pull some form of enjoyment out of it;
(to me) QP is a very bland mode, and I can't stomach doing that for more than a few games per month/year.
FP to me was where it's at, but that had gotten worse, GP (the next best thing) was killed, Scouting was killed..
-still a personal thing, doesn't affect how good something plays. and dires play really well (just like most mechs).

Edited by Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie, 02 May 2023 - 07:39 AM.