67 replies to this topic

[Weeny Machine]

pbiggz, on 18 May 2023 - 03:34 PM, said:

No he doesnt have a point. Neither do you. Harp all you want about the "sniper fest" but something being good doesnt make it nerf-worthy, you just feel entitled to not adapt. If all weapons that fired beyond 300 meters were removed from the game, you'd just pick another boogeyman to complain about.

Yeah, exactly like those guys who whined about MGs carrying light mechs because they ripped snipers a new one? Nerfed
Or about assaults being able to track lights...de-coupling turning speed from engine size was the effect

I could go on like this. Point is: it is amusing that you claim the moral high ground but the facts tell another story and the guys who couldn't adapt are people like you who are now pointing at others and yell "just adept".

And if you were honest, you would admit how much camping started to play a role in this game.
A well balanced game would actually have a risk vs reward system. Here sitting somewhere on a high place firing over the whole map with hardly a risk is more rewarding than sneaking up to an enemy and risking counter fire. On the pro side I guess is that really every simpleton can play like this and have success to a reasonable degree.

The next snipefest highlight will be the Stone Rhino. Enjoy

Edited by Weeny Machine, 19 May 2023 - 03:46 AM.

[Widowmaker1981]

Meep Meep, on 19 May 2023 - 01:46 AM, said:

I was circling a conquest cap erratically in a flea making sure to not go past the same point twice and a gaussbot marauder iic hit me twice from at least 1000m. Either reallllly good aim or a bot but either way does it matter? Plus those cycling er laser macro users can keep a bead on you at that range too or longer. Slower gauss and longer duration would mitigate much of that but still let you ream large slower targets like long range weapons should be used against. I get the feeling that you might be on the giving end of a sniper more than the receiving.

I mean, i genuinely dont really care since i dont use either Gauss rifles or ERLLs much at all anyway (not a fan of gauss charge and think both LPLs and HLLs completely outclass ERLLs for quickplay, at least for my playstyle)

my 3 favourite mechs currently are:

1) Shadow Cat with 2 HLL / 2 ERML
2) Sunspider with 4 C-LPL
3) Corsair 7A with 2 AC10 / 2 HPPC or 3 UAC5 / 2 PPC

Honorable mention to the Blood Asp (3 UAC5 + 2 LPL or 5 LPL)

Are any of those snipers? Not in my view.

Edited by Widowmaker1981, 19 May 2023 - 07:27 AM.

[pbiggz]

Weeny Machine, on 19 May 2023 - 03:41 AM, said:

Yeah, exactly like those guys who whined about MGs carrying light mechs because they ripped snipers a new one? Nerfed
Or about assaults being able to track lights...de-coupling turning speed from engine size was the effect

I could go on like this. Point is: it is amusing that you claim the moral high ground but the facts tell another story and the guys who couldn't adapt are people like you who are now pointing at others and yell "just adept".

And if you were honest, you would admit how much camping started to play a role in this game.
A well balanced game would actually have a risk vs reward system. Here sitting somewhere on a high place firing over the whole map with hardly a risk is more rewarding than sneaking up to an enemy and risking counter fire. On the pro side I guess is that really every simpleton can play like this and have success to a reasonable degree.

The next snipefest highlight will be the Stone Rhino. Enjoy

Those were dumb nerfs too, and I wasn't in favour of them.

Nerfing based on what people are most mad about isn't actually balance, especially in a community full of dads who are obsessed with a non-competitive gamer counterculture that sees being good at clicking heads as actively harmful.

And to be clear, im not a sniper, I don't really enjoy it, and im not good at it, so insinuating that im dishonest is kind of a joke.

Edited by pbiggz, 19 May 2023 - 07:45 AM.

[Meep Meep]

Widowmaker1981, on 19 May 2023 - 07:26 AM, said:

I mean, i genuinely dont really care since i dont use either Gauss rifles or ERLLs much at all anyway (not a fan of gauss charge and think both LPLs and HLLs completely outclass ERLLs for quickplay, at least for my playstyle) my 3 favourite mechs currently are: 1) Shadow Cat with 2 HLL / 2 ERML 2) Sunspider with 4 C-LPL 3) Corsair 7A with 2 AC10 / 2 HPPC or 3 UAC5 / 2 PPC Honorable mention to the Blood Asp (3 UAC5 + 2 LPL or 5 LPL) Are any of those snipers? Not in my view.

All of those builds require facetime at a range most builds can at least shoot back. Why would I have any issues with that? My only gripe are the wallflowers being a bit ~too~ effective. I don't even want them overly nerfed just dialed back a bit on extreme range effectiveness. Maybe even go as far to reduce optimal but increase max range so you can't apply your full alpha on the other side of the map but still do some measure of damage. There are many easy ways to do it and not overly gimp the playstyle.

[PocketYoda]

Meep Meep, on 19 May 2023 - 01:46 AM, said:

I was circling a conquest cap erratically in a flea making sure to not go past the same point twice and a gaussbot marauder iic hit me twice from at least 1000m. Either reallllly good aim or a bot but either way does it matter? Plus those cycling er laser macro users can keep a bead on you at that range too or longer. Slower gauss and longer duration would mitigate much of that but still let you ream large slower targets like long range weapons should be used against. I get the feeling that you might be on the giving end of a sniper more than the receiving.

I've done that before, its not good aim or a bot its a third choice.. Luck..

[Meep Meep]

PocketYoda, on 19 May 2023 - 08:11 PM, said:

I've done that before, its not good aim or a bot its a third choice.. Luck..

Thats not the first time a wallflower gauss has done that. I was erratically circling the cap as I pulsed the masc and the terrain around the cap was uneven. Its the conquest cap at the very far end of tourmaline with the very long sightline to the other side of the map. Thats where the sniper was sitting. Luck to hit not one shot but two? He had top damage by several hundred too at the end of the game around 1100. I mean eh we won the match so I wasn't complaining about that aspect. Just that hitting a literal pixel wide evading target at those ranges should be nigh on impossible with only luck providing a hit. Welp there sure are a lot of 'lucky' gauss slingers out there.

[Dauntless Blint]

For me this game fell over around 2016 / 2017 or something like that.
I think D A T A has a lot of sound logic and good takes on the game. I'm amazed he's still kind of campaigning while getting brigaded.

My favorite weapon and mech are trash these day's and some ballistics are too hot. Besides that the game is looking old AF against Unreal Engine 5.

(First played in 1997.) Armored Core 6 is looking really good, first prepurchase in my life.

[sycocys]

Something I find interesting now that several of the cauldron folks have come around to trash people on the forums is just how incredibly narrow of a view and playstyle they approach making balance choices for the entire game from is.

It does explain a lot of the "balance" changes we've been seeing though. Doesn't really explain the over-buffing certain mechs that already perform well other than those are likely for the most part mechs they or a couple of them know are doing well and want to put a stamp on it.

[The Brewer]

sycocys, on 21 May 2023 - 07:20 AM, said:

Something I find interesting now that several of the cauldron folks have come around to trash people on the forums is just how incredibly narrow of a view and playstyle they approach making balance choices for the entire game from is.

Who from the Cauldron is trashing people around here?

[Widowmaker1981]

Meep Meep, on 19 May 2023 - 01:05 PM, said:

All of those builds require facetime at a range most builds can at least shoot back. Why would I have any issues with that? My only gripe are the wallflowers being a bit ~too~ effective. I don't even want them overly nerfed just dialed back a bit on extreme range effectiveness. Maybe even go as far to reduce optimal but increase max range so you can't apply your full alpha on the other side of the map but still do some measure of damage. There are many easy ways to do it and not overly gimp the playstyle.

My point was that, in my experience, those build are a lot more reliably effective than the long range builds you complain about. I think you should probably try playing these boogieman ERLL / Gauss mechs yourself - youd have a better feel for how powerful they actually are. Being torn up by a sniper while unable to close is incredibly frustrating, so you likely remember the times it happens. You dont remember all the matches where those snipers do naff all because the way the match played out meant they couldnt make use of the range and got out traded by midrange mechs.

[W4R GOD]

Cauldron is a complete and utter waste of time. Small of group of unelected people representing the masses is laughable. Other than the initial weapons pass the rest has been a waste of time.

[Weeny Machine]

The Brewer, on 21 May 2023 - 07:29 AM, said:

Who from the Cauldron is trashing people around here?

Name calling is against the forum rules, dude. Do you want to get someone a ban?

sycocys, on 21 May 2023 - 07:20 AM, said:

Something I find interesting now that several of the cauldron folks have come around to trash people on the forums is just how incredibly narrow of a view and playstyle they approach making balance choices for the entire game from is.

It does explain a lot of the "balance" changes we've been seeing though. Doesn't really explain the over-buffing certain mechs that already perform well other than those are likely for the most part mechs they or a couple of them know are doing well and want to put a stamp on it.

Absolutely. And it is clear to see that some mechs are faaaar away from being balanced. Take the Huginn for example. And absolutely trash mech and they gave him in the last quirk pass extra JJ power. As if a mech with low range, low dps, low alpha, high uptime needs *drumroll* jump jet power. Sidenote: The dps is low because you never get that uptime you need to apply that at best mediocre dps because it is a 35t mech and f* easy to hit.

Whatever, Diablo 4 comes out soon. Then I am off for a long time again. I am so tired of that snipefest when mechs sitting at one end of the map on a high ridge can control nearly all of the map.

Edited by Weeny Machine, 21 May 2023 - 10:48 AM.

[foamyesque]

Weeny: It got the JJ boost because it only has two JJs and it needs that in order for the JJs to actually do anything in the first place.

[Meep Meep]

Widowmaker1981, on 21 May 2023 - 07:34 AM, said:

My point was that, in my experience, those build are a lot more reliably effective than the long range builds you complain about. I think you should probably try playing these boogieman ERLL / Gauss mechs yourself - youd have a better feel for how powerful they actually are. Being torn up by a sniper while unable to close is incredibly frustrating, so you likely remember the times it happens. You dont remember all the matches where those snipers do naff all because the way the match played out meant they couldnt make use of the range and got out traded by midrange mechs.

I did. I ginned this up and have been having a hilariously good time racking up stupid damage numbers for doing nothing other than shooting everything that exposes itself even way past optimal.

bj-3

[Heavy Money]

sycocys, on 21 May 2023 - 07:20 AM, said:

Something I find interesting now that several of the cauldron folks have come around to trash people on the forums is just how incredibly narrow of a view and playstyle they approach making balance choices for the entire game from is.

It does explain a lot of the "balance" changes we've been seeing though. Doesn't really explain the over-buffing certain mechs that already perform well other than those are likely for the most part mechs they or a couple of them know are doing well and want to put a stamp on it.

I've not seen anyone from the Cauldron post here lately or trash anyone.

[Meep Meep]

Heavy Money, on 21 May 2023 - 12:55 PM, said:

I've not seen anyone from the Cauldron post here lately or trash anyone.

Navid got a wee bit offended over my scattershot thread when I used bait and switch in the opening post. Hey it worked and we got a nice detailed explanation that pgi offers them no live test venue to actually play test these things. It definitely triggered ASH as he called me out in game on cross chat.

So if there is no test server(takes effort and dev time to set up so no go apparently) why not have pgi make a few test accounts with strict control and restrictions then allow cauldron to use those accounts with their changes to make a private lobby and they can then do testing that way. That way the only real effort on pgi is to make the test accounts with the mechs and equipment needed for testing. Not optimal but certainly better than ginning up mechs on napkins and sending that in to pgi.

[Thorqemada]

Imho Navid is a very good guy based on the ngngtv-Interview he gave back then and one of the more balanced C-Members.

On the other hand he seems to play with them much often and sits in their echo chamber so he my be convinced by that the balance is well or he may not be able to convince them otherwise - maybe for a lack of reliable data.

But i trust him the most!

Its a thankless task...

[Meep Meep]

Yeah I'm behind cauldron about 95% of the time and so far their changes have certainly been a net positive. Do I think they have a bit of built in bias towards certain meta play? Maybe but they don't go overboard about it.

[Heavy Money]

Meep Meep, on 21 May 2023 - 01:07 PM, said:

Navid got a wee bit offended over my scattershot thread when I used bait and switch in the opening post. Hey it worked and we got a nice detailed explanation that pgi offers them no live test venue to actually play test these things. It definitely triggered ASH as he called me out in game on cross chat.

So if there is no test server(takes effort and dev time to set up so no go apparently) why not have pgi make a few test accounts with strict control and restrictions then allow cauldron to use those accounts with their changes to make a private lobby and they can then do testing that way. That way the only real effort on pgi is to make the test accounts with the mechs and equipment needed for testing. Not optimal but certainly better than ginning up mechs on napkins and sending that in to pgi.

Oh, I missed that post entirely since I hadn't refreshed the thread before responding and then never scrolled back up lol.

[Weeny Machine]

foamyesque, on 21 May 2023 - 11:43 AM, said:

Weeny: It got the JJ boost because it only has two JJs and it needs that in order for the JJs to actually do anything in the first place.

Ummm...no. I have many lights with just 2JJs and they work just fine (also 35t). Please do not try to sell that quirking with an argument like that.

The mech needed something different