11 replies to this topic

[Erebus Alpha]

ATM damage is...weird, to say the least.

According to the in-game tooltip, the ATM-3 does 6 damage. However, the in-game tooltip has a graph, which shows that at short range (the highest damage stage), the ATM-3 does slightly under 8 damage. It looks like the ATM-3 might be doing 6 damage in its medium damage stage - which would mean that the stated numerical damage of ATMs isn't peak damage, it's middle-stage damage. Is this assessment accurate?

The lowest damage stage (long range) of the ATM-3 appears to do more than 4 damage - though by how much, I have no idea. The graph has a horizontal line halfway up the Y-axis, which I assume is 'half'. Unless the graph is some weird nonlinear graph, in which case, all bets are off.

In the ATM-6 damage graph, the max-damage stage looks like it does exactly & precisely 15 damage. Logically speaking, since the ATM-3 is shooting half as many missiles as the ATM-6, it should do half as much damage per shot, yes?. This leads me to believe that the ATM-3 does 7.5 damage per shot, in its max-damage stage. Is this assessment accurate?

Assuming the graphs in the mechlab tooltips are linear, it looks like the steps between all ATMs are the same width. So if the ATM-3 does do 7.5 damage at its max-damage stage, and 6 damage at its mid-damage stage, then it should do 4.5 damage at its minimum damage stage. Is this assessment accurate?

Now here is where things get nuttier than peanut butter:

According to the ATM-9 damage graph, it does exactly 22 damage at its max damage stage. But triple the damage of the ATM-3's max damage stage should be exactly 22.5 damage. WHAT THE HELL?

Does ATM ammo fired from the ATM-9 at its highest damage stage inflict less damage per ton of ammunition spent, than the ATM-3 at the same range & damage stage? If so, what the hell is up with that? And if not, what the hell is wrong with these graphs?

Just to confuse us I guess, the ATM-12 appears to do exactly quadruple the damage of the ATM-3, and exactly double the damage of the ATM-6, at its highest damage stage: Exactly 30 damage. Is this assessment also accurate?

The only thing I can say for certain about ATM damage: Yes. They do it. As long as they hit the target and you're not ludicrously close, ATMs will do 'some' damage - an unknown quantity of damage, somewhere between 'none of it' and 'all of it'.

Speaking of that minimum range inside which ATMs do zero damage...what is that range? And does this minimum range increase (or decrease, that would be awesome!) with range quirks? If I have a weapon with a 90 meter minimum range (like a heavy PPC), and I slap it on a mech with a 10% range bonus, is the minimum range now 99 meters? Or is it still 90 meters? Or is it 81 meters? Do range buffs alter the minimum range of ATM's (or the minimum ranges of any weaponry with a minimum range?)

Finally, there are gaps between the damage brackets of ATM's, with what appears to be linear interpolation between each range bracket.

A sensible and informative mechlab would list SIX different ranges for ATMs:

- Minimum range
- End of max damage stage
- Start of mid damage stage
- End of mid damage stage
- Start of max damage stage
- End of max damage stage

What are these ranges? And which ones are affected by range quirks?

You know what else isn't listed in the mechlab? LRM projectile speed, so that we can compare and contrast it with ATM projectile speed. ATM's taste like they fly faster, but it could just be my imagination. Without hard data, I have to resort to taste-testing my missiles, which is no more or less silly & nonspecific than any other method. What is LRM projectile speed? And do they take longer to reach their targets than mathematically expected, because they fly in a nonlinear arc instead of a (mostly) straight line?

Finally, I am new to using ATMs, and I have wondered how ATMs stack up vs AMS, compared to LRMs. Because I am new at ATM-ing, I have not yet run into any hostile AMS Corsairs, to really torture-test my ATM performance. What are the projectile health values for ATMs, IS SRMs, IS SSRMs, Clan SRMs, Clan SSRMs, MRMs, IS LRMs, and Clan LRMs? Knowing that an AMS does 105 damage per second is relatively useless without corresponding missile health, and the game client does not do a good job of conveying this information.

[TheCaptainJZ]

In short, yes, the ATM info in mechlab is hot garbage.

I'll let an expert comment on the specifics, but the way ATMs work is how the graph is shown:
1. No damage in the minimum range. Used to be 120 m I think, now it's 60 m or 80 m (recent change). No quirks or anything ever changes minimum range numbers that I can think of.
2. There are indeed 3 stages with different damage values. These are fixed within those brackets. This is supposed to be how they work in lore, but they actually use different ammo types for the different ranges as I understand it. We don't get into that detail here.
3. The damage transition between the brackets is small--not sure how many meters, but the damage change is indeed linear. I think this is just to add a sort of buffer for some measure of calculator fairness if you are at the boundary of two brackets as the damage difference can be significant.

I thought LRM projectile speed was in the tooltip, but I guess not. I know spread is. I think ATMs are slower than LRMs. I also know that ATM missiles have more health than LRMs, because there are fewer of them, but the missile health value is different for different sized launchers. LRM 5's have more missile health, to enable them a greater chance of getting through AMS. ATM-3's also have more missile health. ATM missiles also have more health than LRM missiles, and Streaks have more missile health than LRMs, but for a full table, I don't have that info. The info would be found in patch notes but most of that goes back a ways.

ATMs are best used close--between 100-300 meters or so. They are more of a shotgun-kind of weapon. You can fire them far like LRMs, but it's basically a waste of ammo compared to the damage they do, how much tonnage they weigh, and heat generated. AMS will also chew it up the more distance it flies since there are fewer missiles, even with more health. Use at that range sparingly. They also have a flat firing trajectory so you can only fire them over slight hills. This might be why they appear faster if they aren't really. I think they really are a tad faster though.

[w0qj]

Dec 2022 patch: ATM minimum range reduced to 60 meters

Sources:
https://mwomercs.com...-13december2022
https://mwomercs.com...auldron-changes

[DucPilot]

Does the damage range brackets change with quirks/skill nodes? Is there a chart that shows what the different damage ranges are?

[KursedVixen]

DucPilot, on 20 June 2023 - 03:28 PM, said:

Does the damage range brackets change with quirks/skill nodes? Is there a chart that shows what the different damage ranges are?

I doubt the minimium range changes but what are the damage brackets and what is the damage i thought they did 1.5 at the longest range. then up from there up to 2.5 or is it just 2 at the shorter range beyond 60m

Edited by KursedVixen, 20 June 2023 - 08:08 PM.

[Aidan Crenshaw]

0-60m 0 dmg/missile
60-245m 2,5 dmg/missile
295-500m 2,0 dmg/missile
550-1100m 1,6 dmg/missile
with linear progression between the brackets
https://mwomercs.com.../list/full.json

[KursedVixen]

Aidan Crenshaw, on 20 June 2023 - 10:18 PM, said:

0-60m 0 dmg/missile
60-245m 2,5 dmg/missile
295-500m 2,0 dmg/missile
550-1100m 1,6 dmg/missile
with linear progression between the brackets
https://mwomercs.com.../list/full.json

Does that change with range quirks though or does it just extend the long range?

[Aidan Crenshaw]

All ranges except for the min range extend according to quirks and skills

[KursedVixen]

any recent updates on this like actual range brackets with and without full range nodes?

[Aidan Crenshaw]

Step 1: Look at the published data https://mwomercs.com.../list/full.json
Step 2: apply arithmetics for quirk/skill impact
Step 3: rejoice!

Spoiler

It's

• 0-60m - 0 dmg/missile
  
• 61-245 - 2.5 dmg/missile
  
• 295-500 - 2 dmg/missile
  
• 550-1100 - 1.6 dmg/missile

linear transition between 2.,3. and 4.

[KursedVixen]

Aidan Crenshaw, on 30 October 2023 - 12:17 AM, said:

Step 1: Look at the published data https://mwomercs.com.../list/full.json
Step 2: apply arithmetics for quirk/skill impact
Step 3: rejoice!

Spoiler

It's

• 0-60m - 0 dmg/missile
  
• 61-245 - 2.5 dmg/missile
  
• 295-500 - 2 dmg/missile
  
• 550-1100 - 1.6 dmg/missile

linear transition between 2.,3. and 4.

wait the atm does 1.6 damage at long range??? and would range quirks effec the high or low range?

Edited by KursedVixen, 30 October 2023 - 02:25 PM.

[Aidan Crenshaw]

KursedVixen, on 30 October 2023 - 02:24 PM, said:

wait the atm does 1.6 damage at long range??? and would range quirks effec the high or low range?

yes it does

Aidan Crenshaw, on 21 June 2023 - 03:09 AM, said:

All ranges except for the min range extend according to quirks and skills