24 replies to this topic

[Grodak]

Had a little brawl with a light mech packing machine guns and we were trading blows pretty consistently; neither of us were missing many of our shots and I was countering his little "run around the big guy" strategy pretty well!

However, I was losing the damage contest and eventually he cut down my legs and I died without even putting any parts of his mech into the red... depressing to say the least.

I don't want to poke the wasp nest here, just want to see if anyone else thinks the Rotary AC/2 could use some help and if the devs think it's in a good spot right now or not.

That's all, hope everyone is having a good night blowing up some mechs!

[foamyesque]

Ton for ton nothing beats MGs for DoT in their effective range.

[Heavy Money]

RAC2 has 540m+ range. MGs have 130. Yes, MGs beat it on dps/ton if you can boat enough of them. I assume you were dealing with a Piranha or Mist Lynx.

Its a long range dps weapon vs brawl range weapons. Yes you will lose that. Although it does depend on how many of have, of course. I'd expect 3RAC2 to still win that.

[LordNothing]

ive never really been a rac fan as implemented by pgi. seems its got too many things stacked against it. wait to fire, linked heat pool, slow projectiles, and you end up with a bad dps weapon that is as easy to counter as stepping behind a rock, and trading during the spin-up interval. drop either the spin up delay or the linked heat pool, and you might have something you can use. drop both and it might be op when boated.

Edited by LordNothing, 08 June 2023 - 04:44 PM.

[Curccu]

Either you are doing it wrong... and you only got one RAC2, cannot recommend having less than 3 or more than 3 without RAC HSL quirk...

Or you had 3 of them and you missed a lot (hit req issue also possibility) 3xRAC2 does almost 20 damage for every second and should rip lights leg off in few seconds.

But real question is why do you think mid range weapon should be able to compete with brawl weapon in a brawl?

[Bassault]

Yes. Rac2s are absolutely dogshit. Racs are dogshit. Actually, 80% of ballistics are dogshit.

[PocketYoda]

I never use them, i dunno if its hitreg or just a terrible weapon but they do very little damage for their stats.. try not to face tank a machine gun boat..

Every time i put a rac on a mech i instantly regret it in battle..

Edited by PocketYoda, 10 June 2023 - 01:17 AM.

[simon1812]

I think they are fine as they are

[w0qj]

Anything that can boat the 3x RAC2 is dynamite; even an Atlas assault would shrink from such sustained fire...

~You can boat this on BSW-X1 (medium mech), all the way to 100ton Assaults.

In fact, have you tried the Nightstar NSR-10P with ECM, can fire four RAC2 without Ghost Heat penalty, and RAC ramp down quirk. *faints*

(By the way, there's a Platinum version of NSR-10P(P) with +30% CBills Bonus also!)

[simon1812]

Grodak would be interesting to know which mech you running and what loadout. This game can be a little more complex that "he had lots of machineguns and I had.... an RAC5 or a UAC20" or whatever.

To me something like the RACs are meant for suppression fire, yeah sure, it's fun when one is able to outgun an opponent to death. But it's more useful to make heavys and assault back off for cover when they try to do anything, for that to happen though, one needs tobe at a good distance (400-600m) and able to take cover fast when getting their attention, move for a new spot, rinse and repeat.

Edited by simon1812, 10 June 2023 - 07:15 AM.

[Marcel Leander]

A while back I built myself a spreadsheet with all of the weapons that used damage, heat, cooldown, weight and slots to calculate damage per second, damage per heat, damage per slot and damage per ton, then creates an average of the four to assign a score to each. It tended to demonstrate that the lower the dps of the weapon the better it was in every other score. AC's are a little wonky because as they get weaker they get better range but their damage per ton goes down the drain in a hurry. Which makes sense. Machine guns and micro lasers are insanely efficient but do very little damage at very short range. And with a limited amount of hard points and a lot of tonnage to spare on a bigger slower mech, you're going to want to sacrifice some efficiency to get a bit more damage at a bit longer range. An Annihilator boating MG's and waddling in at 40 kph would be lucky to survive getting within 130m for what amounts to a total of 6dps, doesn't matter how efficient it is. And likewise, a Pirhanna isn't going to be able to carry a RAC. Having a spectrum from the short range but efficient weapons and mobility of a light to the inefficient but high range and damage of potential of a lumbering assault makes for a pretty balanced fight across any weight class.

Edited by Marcel Leander, 10 June 2023 - 08:27 PM.

[Heavy Money]

w0qj, on 10 June 2023 - 05:50 AM, said:

Anything that can boat the 3x RAC2 is dynamite; even an Atlas assault would shrink from such sustained fire...

~You can boat this on BSW-X1 (medium mech), all the way to 100ton Assaults.

In fact, have you tried the Nightstar NSR-10P with ECM, can fire four RAC2 without Ghost Heat penalty, and RAC ramp down quirk. *faints*

(By the way, there's a Platinum version of NSR-10P(P) with +30% CBills Bonus also!)

The NSR-10P is better with 2UAC5+2UAC2 than 4RAC2. Don't bother with RACs on it.

[crazytimes]

A single RAC2 is a waste of time. There's a few builds for boating 3xRAC2 plus assorted AC2 and/or LPPC that are not a waste of time, and RAC2 needs to be balanced considering those builds as well. It is not really an effective use of a single ballistic hardpoint in most builds.

[PocketYoda]

The only mech i've had some good game with Racs is the Florentine Crab.. its mobile fast and can boat 2xrac2s 2mediums and 2x srm 4s which i found to be surprisingly deadly.. That said its still pretty niche and you must watch your face time..

[Meep Meep]

Only boated rac2 are worth mounting. Unless you are an urbie. Then its usable.

um-r60l

When running this I pair up with some heavies or assault brawlers and when they go after a target I aim for the cockpit area and blind it with rac fire. Works a charm.

[Saved By The Bell]

I was running in Urbi with one rac2. It was TERRIBLE.
Low damage and easy losing arm with weapon.

Edited by Saved By The Bell, 11 June 2023 - 11:03 AM.

[Meep Meep]

Well losing a main weapon with an arm is kinda the urbie thing.. As to damage yeah its more harassment than direct damage but it certainly works well if you play it as support.

[Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie]

triple rac2 marauder is fun and performs. also mauler.
maybe more are usable today, there were lots of changes over the last year(s).

and rac vs mg..? it's not even apples and oranges, it's more like apples and cherries.
meaning: they both take a ballistic-slot; that's where ANY comparison starts AND ends

[Meep Meep]

With the recent buffs to lmg that flavor of mg is certainly comparable to a single rac2.

pir-a

fle-19

The lmg on these fit are putting out 6.8 dps vs the rac2 6.55 dps at a similar engagement range but with none of the drawbacks of a rac and all of the benefits of a hitscan weapon.

But no mech has enough ballistic hardpoints for lmg to compete with boated rac2.

[Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie]

Meep Meep, on 11 June 2023 - 12:18 PM, said:

With the recent buffs to lmg that flavor of mg is certainly comparable to a single rac2.

pir-a

fle-19

The lmg on these fit are putting out 6.8 dps vs the rac2 6.55 dps at a similar engagement range but with none of the drawbacks of a rac and all of the benefits of a hitscan weapon.

But no mech has enough ballistic hardpoints for lmg to compete with boated rac2.

320 =|= 540 meters.
there's still a HUGE difference in range, hardpoints or not. and like already said: once you boat racs (and you ALWAYS should, a single one has way too many disadvantages), you can't compete with LMG.

again: it's a silly comparison in the first place, as they play very differently, with different strenghts and weaknesses.