39 replies to this topic

[Tarl Cabot]

I would prefer that instead of the New Engine: IS Omni XL Engine, they actually remove the instant death on 1st side torso lost for the XL, then change the non-lethal negative effects for 3 of the 4 engines, unless one is redlining it, then that effect would happen to 3 of the 4 engines in game.

They could make the change simply to allow XL to survive the 1st ST loss then follow up with the deferential penalties.

Tarl Cabot, on 16 November 2020 - 06:59 PM, said:

This +1.

PGI is utilizing only a portion of the engine crit rules and heatscale. Add that for any players running an IS trial mech or purchasing trial/champion/etc IS mechs w/isXL, even with the heat bar sitting at 0% isXL is instant death w/loss of a ST, whereas for cXL and the couple of mechs w/LFE it isn't. And it would make IS Omnimechs viable instead of players targeting a ST instead of CT/cockpit or both ST/legs to kill said mech. (CT/cockpit/both legs still needed for STD too ).

• isXL 40% Engine loss heat capacity / x% loss heat dissipation / 25% movement
  
• cXL 25-30% Engine loss heat capacity/ x% loss heat dissipation / 20% movement
  
• LFE 15-20% Engine loss heat capacity/ x% loss heat dissipation / 15% movement

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 21 November 2023 - 02:25 PM.

[Will9761]

I see what you are talking about now. I read in TT, IS XL Engines need 3 (to each torso) critical hits in order for a mech to be rendered combat ineffective. The way how PGI implemented IS XLs makes them somewhat worthless with one torso meaning instant death.

[Will9761]

With what I've been seeing with the Onyx Legendary Mech, I could see it as a fun challenge.

[KursedVixen]

Is omnis must come with heat sinks that don't increase heat cap.

[C337Skymaster]

Nevermore223, on 19 September 2023 - 03:02 PM, said:

Arrows were awesome in MW4. They took up a lot of space and had a small magazine, but they packed a punch! The only thing was, they did not lock, you had to guide em, like a cruise missle. I had hoped the devs. back then would have put a PIP camera on the nose of the warhead, so you could guide it better...and watch the impact. Implimenting that feature back then would have been hard, if not impossible with the game engine it was using.

So we technically already have the guidance system for Arrow IV in-game, we just don't have the missiles. TAG Lasers are specifically intended to provide guidance for Arrow Artillery Missiles. NARC is meant to be guidance for standard SRMs and LRMs (with specially modified ammo, which PGI didn't bother adding separately). It should be a relatively simple task to program Arrows to fly in a wide cone, but to home in on a TAG laser, wherever it happens to be pointing (so attack-ground, or attack-building should also work, depending on where the laser is pointing). They were historically somewhat inaccurate when dumb-fired, but could be extremely precise when laser guided.

Thus the reason the Raven carries both TAG and NARC: providing guidance for Catapult C1's (LRMs) and C3's (Arrow IVs).

Part of the reason PGI doesn't want to add them is that they had a range of something like 9 km, meaning their max range is about triple the maximum diameter of PGI's largest map, so anyone mounting them could stay in spawn and provide artillery support to anyone, anywhere. One or two stealth Ravens and the rest of the team mounting Arrows, and the opposing team would never get a shot off in return.

The other reason is that it completely negates the point of Artillery Consumables, (not that anybody spends MC for those, anymore, anyway).

The reason the two Battlemech Arctic Wolves have a seemingly useless NARC is that they carried NARC homing ammo for their SRMs, and the NARC was there to make the SRMs more accurate. It has about the same end-effect as Artemis (higher roll on the cluster hits table), but with that many SRMs, it was overall considerably lighter weight.

Edited by C337Skymaster, 24 November 2023 - 06:39 AM.

[Will9761]

the check engine light, on 24 November 2023 - 08:44 AM, said:

I've given up understanding KursedVixen on this front. His reasonings for not wanting IS Omnis comes out of a sense of entitlement for his faction and an unwillingness to be open to change instead of a legitimate concern. I can understand not wanting IS Omnis due to things like: technical or coding issues, the current IS XL engine implementation, not having certain engineers or not having certain equipment yet. Those are all fine reasons to disagree with, but he gives no sound evidence or solid reasoning behind his disagreement. Instead it's just vague, blanket statements. I'm fine for discussing disagreements against the inclusion of IS OmniMechs for MWO, but give me legitimate reasons why you don't want this instead of vague statements.

I will say this though since we are in the Jihad Era, thanks to the HAGs, I really want to see the IS OmniMechs now more than ever.

Edited by Will9761, 24 November 2023 - 11:16 PM.

[Will9761]

Ch_R0me, on 20 September 2023 - 01:09 AM, said:

I also would like to see these guns in action as well:
Plasma Cannon – BattleTechWiki (sarna.net)
Plasma rifle – BattleTechWiki (sarna.net)


But besides them:

Laser (Chemical Lasers)– BattleTechWiki (sarna.net)
Bombast Laser – BattleTechWiki (sarna.net)
Mech Mortar – BattleTechWiki (sarna.net)
Light Rifle – BattleTechWiki (sarna.net)
Medium Rifle – BattleTechWiki (sarna.net)
Heavy Rifle – BattleTechWiki (sarna.net)

Plasma Rifle - I can see this as an ammo-dependent flamer.
Laser (Chemical Lasers) – I could see this as ammo based lasers just like in MW5.
Bombast Lasers - I could see them in the same way like the Clan ATMs. The longer you are the lower the damage, the shorter you are, the higher the damage.
Rifle Family - They could act as regular Autocannons, but with less damage.

As for the Plasma Cannon and Mech Motar, I don't know.

[Will9761]

I'm curious myself to see how the Men Shen will act with Binary Laser Cannons equipped to it. As for the Raptor it is gonna be an amazing OmniMech to run, especially with its 10 Energy hardpoints. Imagine carrying 10 Small X-Pulse Lasers on that thing.

[C337Skymaster]

Will9761, on 24 November 2023 - 10:58 AM, said:

I've given up understanding KursedVixen on this front. His reasonings for not wanting IS Omnis comes out of a sense of entitlement for his faction and an unwillingness to be open to change instead of a legitimate concern. I can understand not wanting IS Omnis due to things like: technical or coding issues, the current IS XL engine implementation, not having certain engineers or not having certain equipment yet. Those are all fine reasons to disagree with, but he gives no sound evidence or solid reasoning behind his disagreement. Instead it's just vague, blanket statements. I'm fine for discussing disagreements against the inclusion of IS OmniMechs for MWO, but give me legitimate reasons why you don't want this instead of vague statements.

I will say this though since we are in the Jihad Era, thanks to the HAGs, I really want to see the IS OmniMechs now more than ever.

The rhetoric amongst Clan players has been, for a very long time, that PGI doesn't like the Clans, and favors the Inner Sphere, buffing IS and nerfing Clan until Clans can't win a 1:1 fight with an IS 'mech. Naturally, the same argument goes the other way in IS circles, but KursedVixen plays Clans (per the Clan Wolf faction icon).

[Will9761]

C337Skymaster, on 25 November 2023 - 06:14 PM, said:

The rhetoric amongst Clan players has been, for a very long time, that PGI doesn't like the Clans, and favors the Inner Sphere, buffing IS and nerfing Clan until Clans can't win a 1:1 fight with an IS 'mech. Naturally, the same argument goes the other way in IS circles, but KursedVixen plays Clans (per the Clan Wolf faction icon).

Fair enough, I used to play Clan all the time, but after Community Warfare became Faction Play and seeing the wasted potential of the mode, I got rid of my Clan icon. Also playing one set of faction for too long got me blinded to where I didn't want to acknowledge the other side to being equals and deny seeing their progress for change, in turn, denying MWO's change. So I get that and I have no problem with people loving their own faction. But to me, after getting frustrated and burned out with this game, it made me realize how bad the status quo of MWO was, especially for 11 years now. This is why I put aside the faction icon and I'm advocating for IS Omnis, because the game needs to change and I want to see it improve.

Edited by Will9761, 25 November 2023 - 08:31 PM.

[C337Skymaster]

Will9761, on 25 November 2023 - 08:09 PM, said:

Fair enough, I used to play Clan all the time, but after Community Warfare became Faction Play and seeing the wasted potential of the mode, I got rid of my Clan icon. Also playing one set of faction for too long got me blinded to where I didn't want to acknowledge the other side to being equals and deny seeing their progress for change, in turn, denying MWO's change. So I get that and I have no problem with people loving their own faction. But to me, after getting frustrated and burned out with this game, it made me realize how bad the status quo of MWO was, especially for 11 years now. This is why I put aside the faction icon and I'm advocating for IS Omnis, because the game needs to change and I want to see it improve.

I am, and always will be, in favor of the addition of new 'mechs and equipment. Where I draw the line, though, is bastardizing them to make them fit the MWO meta narrative. They don't have to be meta, they just have to be new, and different. There are those among the community who have fond memories of each 'mech in the game and will play it, regardless of how bad it might be.

I know to be cautious of advocating for any kind of "expense" to playing good 'mechs, because that introduces P2W mechanics that nobody wants, but the bad 'mechs are cheap on TT for a reason... (and there's a lot of us, now, who have more CB than we can figure out what to spend them on, so it'd be nice to have a reason to play CB boosted 'mechs. Changing champion 'mechs to earn CB actually pisses me off, because I don't need any CB, nor do I want any more without something to spend them on, but GXP is always in short supply).

Back to Omnis, though: I think the solutions to fixed XL engines will be the same as with everything else thus far: armor quirks, structure quirks, and above all: reduced weapon accuracy!! Seriously, should it really be that easy to deliver 50-100 dmg to a single component from 1000 m away? Or should those weapons have a serious chance of spreading to other components or hitting dirt? We wonder why brawling's dead when you can carve up a 'mech for Thanksgiving Dinner without ever being seen or locked... And we ***** and moan about specific geometry being vulnerable, when that level of accuracy was never intended in the first place.

[Will9761]

C337Skymaster, on 26 November 2023 - 08:09 AM, said:

Back to Omnis, though: I think the solutions to fixed XL engines will be the same as with everything else thus far: armor quirks, structure quirks, and above all: reduced weapon accuracy!! Seriously, should it really be that easy to deliver 50-100 dmg to a single component from 1000 m away? Or should those weapons have a serious chance of spreading to other components or hitting dirt? We wonder why brawling's dead when you can carve up a 'mech for Thanksgiving Dinner without ever being seen or locked... And we ***** and moan about specific geometry being vulnerable, when that level of accuracy was never intended in the first place.

I can see the approach of quirking up the side torsos and strengthening their internal and structure armor. Personally I'd go for 150 or 180 for IS Omni Heavies and Assaults on the side torsos just to give them a fighting change. Given the IS XL implementation, IS OmniMechs (with the exceptions of the Raptor, Men Shen and Sunder) they could be seen acting as support mechs, especially with some of them having ECM hardpoints.

But yeah, I can see what you mean with the sniping meta. I'm not a fan of it either. If some people want to do sniping that one thing, but when it becomes the whole game that's where it gets boring and repetitive. Some people are brawlers and some people are scouts and they shouldn't be punished for playing a different way.

Still, I do hope that someone on the PGI dev team can consider adding them and do some testing. I personally wouldn't mind if we could do some PT testing. Because I had enough of spending money on Clan BattleMechs and OmniMechs and IS BattleMechs as a whole, no matter how cool (Oynx), nostalgic (Stone Rhino) or popular (Unseen Mechs) they are. To me they are just another mechpack.

[C337Skymaster]

At this point in the game, as a predominantly Clan player, I don't really think much of CL XL "Surviveability", since the combination of the speed drop, with basically being switched to single heat sinks (without the added heat capacity), makes you almost completely combat ineffective once your side torso gets blown off, and you're good for maybe one or two more shots (three or four if you've got an unjammed Ultra Autocannon left, and didn't lose your remaining ammo with the other side of your 'mech). Most times, once the side torso's gone, it's almost better to just be dead and be done with it.

I, personally, keep advocating for the removal of convergence, so that everything fires perfectly straight from where it's mounted (although then people show me the few 'mechs where everything's tightly clustered, like the Hellbringer chest), because I'm sick of giga-alphas all hitting one component, and because I'm sick of corner-peeking and having my alpha hit the invisible wall in front of the cockpit, instead of the target in front of my arm.

[Will9761]

Out of all the IS Omnis, I've seen the Owens and Strider should stay out of MWO. Even though they are classics, the former doesn't have enough weapons and despite having a Standard Engine, the minimal weapon hardpoints won't help. The latter has lackluster weapon hardpoints as well and is not that speedy. They don't even hold a candle to Raptor in terms of performance and their BattleMech predecessors could whip them.

Edited by Will9761, 27 November 2023 - 08:41 PM.

[Will9761]

I genuine hope that MW5 Clans goes above 3052 so we can get IS Omnis. If not, maybe for DLC that pushes the era to 3057 or 3060.

[C337Skymaster]

I certainly wouldn't get my hopes up for the base game. I very seriously suspect a game that spans two or three years from either the initial invasion, or slightly before (on Huntress in training, plus the "year or so" it takes to get from the homeworlds to the Inner Sphere), through the Battle of Tukayyid, and ends at the beginning of the 15 year truce. Definitely leaves it open for DLC, but not much else happens with the Smoke Jaguars between 3052, and 3057, with the beginning of Operation Bulldog.

[Will9761]

WOO YEAH!!! It's happening!
:https://mwomercs.com...gends-q2-update
The Black Hawk KU


I want to thank those people who voted in support of IS Omnis, as well as those who voted no and gave valid discussions and legitimate reasons for the problems that IS Omni could impose. I said that I wouldn't buy anything unless IS Omnis were a thing in my forum signature and I am a man of my word. I don't care if I get clipped in the torso from an XL Engine, I'll be playing and enjoying them. After all they are staples of the BT Universe just like the Unseens. Once it comes out, I'll buy it. Again thank you PGI for adding and for people who voted for (and against, but gave valid reasons) the IS Omnis to be in MWO.

Edited by Will9761, 13 April 2024 - 05:08 PM.

[Ch_R0me]

@Will9761, now pretty much everybody is stoked at this point

Edited by Ch_R0me, 13 April 2024 - 11:12 AM.

[Novakaine]

Nice PGI.

[Ekson Valdez]

Since IS Omnimechs are now a part of MWO, this thread has outlived its necessity.
Thank you all for your valiant efforts!

Thread closed by OP request.