30 replies to this topic

[Marcel Leander]

Hi, all. I wanted to share my weapons quick-reference spreadsheet I've been working on for a while, for the sake of critique and to potentially help other mechlab junkies with various bits of extra weapons information calculation, to see how different weapons stack up against each other, because it takes a while to copy all of the information on every weapon tooltip into a spreadsheet, and at least a lot of it is there if anyone wants to copy/paste their own.

This should give you a basic idea for each weapon its stats based on tooltips. Current as of June 2023. Each weapon has slots, tons, damage, heat, cooldown, minimum and maximum range. Then it calculates damage per slot, damager per ton, damage to heat ratio, DPS, and finally DPS per ton.

If you have any suggestions, I'm open to hearing them. I hope this makes someone else's life easier the way it has mine.


The caveats, at the moment:

• Optimal and maximum weapon ranges are listed but not incorporated into any calculations - because range is situational and you have to decide for yourself if you're willing to pay the price in other stats for a longer range build, and if you're willing to fire beyond optimal range for the reduced damage.

• Ghost heat isn't included - I feel like that would be a massive undertaking because in some cases it's not just size specific, it's weapon specific (for example you can fire 6 Clan Medium Pulse or Medium ER Lasers but only 4 Clan Heavy Medium Lasers before triggering ghost heat).

• Flamers, TAGs, AMS, and NARCS are not included because they aren't for dealing damage.

• ATM damage works in brackets - the optimal range is based on their highest damage bracket, but their base damage is listed in the middle 2/missile bracket.

• Minimum ranges for the ATM, IS LRM, and Heavy PPC, as well as range ramp-up for the Clan LRM and IS PPC are not included.

• How long it takes you to get a missile lock is your business

• LBX and Missile Spread are not included - you know what you're getting when you bring a shotgun. Likewise, the extra weight and slots of Artemis are included and their impact on other stats, but I can't tell you how many more missiles you'll put on target, and I can't tell you how many missiles you'll get past an AMS.

• UAC double tap damage gets its own rows, but jam chance is a bit RNG, and I don't know any specific calculations to incorporate it. It's a gamble - maybe you pull the trigger and do the extra damage, maybe you get boned. Formulas for averaging jams into sustained fire seem anecdotal at best, and mean nothing for a single burst.

• RAC jams and RAC ramp-up and how they affect damage and heat are both based on how long you sustain fire. Not really great for calculating simple things like DPS or DOT. They're a special beast, but you can at least know what you're putting out while they're doing their thing.

• Clan ERPPC splash damage is not included because it depends on where you hit - consider it a bonus. C-ERPPC and IS Snub now list damage including 5 splash.

• A few weapons have special perks. PPC's disable ECM and Stealth, machine guns are crit monsters. This is beyond the scope of this chart. The seasoned Mechwarrior will know if they need these specific features.

• Weapon system health is beyond the scope of this chart

• Ammo weight is beyond the scope of this chart. It does add to the weight of ballistic and missile weapons, but you can bring as little as half a ton or as much as you can fit.

Document link:


https://docs.google....dit?usp=sharing

Edited by Marcel Leander, 10 July 2023 - 01:52 AM.

[kalashnikity]

Thank you, the much outdated https://mwo.smurfy-net.de/ went down (a year ago?) and I've been having to do calculations manually since then.

Damage per heat, and damage per second per ton are very useful.

Edited by kalashnikity, 29 June 2023 - 06:54 PM.

[kalashnikity]

the one thing I've never seen on any chart is damage per ton of ammo, which is fairly easy to calculate... except for machine guns!!! I still have no idea what machine guns do per ton of ammo.

[w0qj]

Wow, have it bookmarked, thank you !!

Marcel Leander, on 29 June 2023 - 06:23 PM, said:

Hi, all. I wanted to share my weapons quick-reference spreadsheet...

Document link:
https://docs.google....dit?usp=sharing

[Marcel Leander]

kalashnikity, on 29 June 2023 - 06:57 PM, said:

the one thing I've never seen on any chart is damage per ton of ammo, which is fairly easy to calculate... except for machine guns!!! I still have no idea what machine guns do per ton of ammo.

Pardon me if any of this information is out of date, but to my knowledge all machine guns fire one shot every 0.1 second.
IS
Standard - 0.1 damage per shot, 2300 shots per ton, so 230 damage per ton
Light - 0.085 damage per shot, 3600 shots per ton, so 306 damage per ton
Heavy - 0.15 damage per shot, 1800 shots per ton, so 170 damage per ton

Clan
Standard - 0.1 damage per shot, 2200 shots per ton, so 220 damage per ton
Light - 0.085 damage per shot, 3200 shots per ton, so 272 damage per ton
Heavy - 0.14 damage per shot, 1600 shots per ton, so 224 damage per ton

The reason for the discrepancies in damage per ton of ammo between IS and Clan is that Clan machine guns weigh half as much as their IS counterpart, and the Clan Heavy has a slightly shorter range and dps than the IS Heavy.

What you also have to consider is that when hitting structure, each round - 10 per second - has a chance to crit, and each round has a higher chance to crit than other weapons. So your damage per second and per ton of ammo is significantly higher once armor is down.

Edited by Marcel Leander, 29 June 2023 - 07:31 PM.

[Vxheous]

It's all on mechdb
https://mwo.nav-alph...uipment/weapons

[Marcel Leander]

Vxheous, on 29 June 2023 - 08:48 PM, said:

It's all on mechdb
https://mwo.nav-alph...uipment/weapons

Well thanks for this. I was looking all over for this on there and couldn't find it. Still wanted to have DPS per ton and Damage per ton and slot so I don't regret making mine.

Edited by Marcel Leander, 30 June 2023 - 01:28 AM.

[Davegt27]

what does DPH stand for ?

[TheCaptainJZ]

Davegt27, on 30 June 2023 - 04:05 AM, said:

what does DPH stand for ?

damage per heat, I'd assume.

Marcel Leander, on 29 June 2023 - 09:11 PM, said:

Well thanks for this. I was looking all over for this on there and couldn't find it. Still wanted to have DPS per ton and Damage per ton and slot so I don't regret making mine.

This data also auto-updates thanks to APIs, as I understand it.


We should get this site stickied here.

Edited by TheCaptainJZ, 30 June 2023 - 05:05 AM.

[Curccu]

kalashnikity, on 29 June 2023 - 06:57 PM, said:

the one thing I've never seen on any chart is damage per ton of ammo, which is fairly easy to calculate... except for machine guns!!! I still have no idea what machine guns do per ton of ammo.

https://mwo.nav-alph.../equipment/ammo

damage per ton is same as ammo explosion damage.

Except MGs it looks like because not standard for some reason... "Shrugs" PGI.

edit2: Well clan MGs and IS MG (not light and heavy) are weird. + Gauss weapon ammo doesn't explode so no direct number there also.

Edited by Curccu, 30 June 2023 - 06:15 AM.

[SafeScanner]

Curccu, on 30 June 2023 - 06:09 AM, said:

https://mwo.nav-alph.../equipment/ammo

damage per ton is same as ammo explosion damage.

Except MGs it looks like because not standard for some reason... "Shrugs" PGI.

edit2: Well clan MGs and IS MG (not light and heavy) are weird. + Gauss weapon ammo doesn't explode so no direct number there also.

but the guass weapon itself should

[Davegt27]

TheCaptainJZ, on 30 June 2023 - 05:04 AM, said:

damage per heat, I'd assume.


This data also auto-updates thanks to APIs, as I understand it.


We should get this site stickied here.

I thought heat was a variable ??

[Marcel Leander]

Davegt27, on 30 June 2023 - 12:22 PM, said:

I thought heat was a variable ??

Every time you pull the trigger, you get a specific number of heat points from each weapon fired. You have a maximum number of heat points (capacity) and a dissipation rate that is how many heat points per second you are reduced by. Your in-game gauge only shows your percentage of capacity, but you can actually go over 100% and it keeps counting points. Any points over capacity give you heat damage until dissipation reduces you below 100%. Shutting down reduces the amount of damage you take while over cap.

But, for instance if you look at the tool tip on a Clan Medium Pulse Laser - it has 7 heat and 4.5 damage. The damage varies depending on what you hit, from how far, and how much of your beam. But you ALWAYS take 7 heat for firing it.

[w0qj]

Also note the difference of your mech's heat dissipation rates when:
~standing still, vs
~walking

The heat dissipation is different! (Obviously walking slows down your heat dissipation...)

[PocketYoda]

Marcel Leander, on 30 June 2023 - 02:14 PM, said:

Every time you pull the trigger, you get a specific number of heat points from each weapon fired. You have a maximum number of heat points (capacity) and a dissipation rate that is how many heat points per second you are reduced by. Your in-game gauge only shows your percentage of capacity, but you can actually go over 100% and it keeps counting points. Any points over capacity give you heat damage until dissipation reduces you below 100%. Shutting down reduces the amount of damage you take while over cap.

But, for instance if you look at the tool tip on a Clan Medium Pulse Laser - it has 7 heat and 4.5 damage. The damage varies depending on what you hit, from how far, and how much of your beam. But you ALWAYS take 7 heat for firing it.

Thats not what i've noticed in game.. For me the heat fluctuates all over the place even if you wait and fire the same groups of weapons.. The heats are never the same amount.

[Marcel Leander]

PocketYoda, on 30 June 2023 - 08:16 PM, said:

Thats not what i've noticed in game.. For me the heat fluctuates all over the place even if you wait and fire the same groups of weapons.. The heats are never the same amount.

That's odd... I usually take my mechs into the testing grounds to run my heat configuration through its paces. I tend to take a macro with me to test very specific firing timings under a variety of conditions and can get very consistent results across dozens of shots.

The only thing I can come up with for why you would see heat inconsistencies is the fair number of external factors that generate additional heat or increase/decrease your dissipation. w0qj mentioned standing vs walking - I was not aware of this, I had heard it discussed in the past but I hadn't realized it was implemented. I know of things like standing in water increases dissipation, standing in lava increases heat. I believe maps have hot spots, as well. Also, taking enemy fire from certain weapons also increases heat. And don't forget that in battle, your heat sinks can be destroyed even while the component that contained them remains intact.

Edited by Marcel Leander, 01 July 2023 - 05:24 PM.

[Star Lit Night]

Marcel Leander, on 01 July 2023 - 05:24 PM, said:

That's odd... I usually take my mechs into the testing grounds to run my heat configuration through its paces. I tend to take a macro with me to test very specific firing timings under a variety of conditions and can get very consistent results across dozens of shots.

The only thing I can come up with for why you would see heat inconsistencies is the fair number of external factors that generate additional heat or increase/decrease your dissipation. w0qj mentioned standing vs walking - I was not aware of this, I had heard it discussed in the past but I hadn't realized it was implemented. I know of things like standing in water increases dissipation, standing in lava increases heat. I believe maps have hot spots, as well. Also, taking enemy fire from certain weapons also increases heat. And don't forget that in battle, your heat sinks can be destroyed even while the component that contained them remains intact.

Yesterday I set up a double vs single heat sink test with a Prirate's Bane on Rubellite Oasis, with 3 single heat sinks it does gain heat on stealth, with 4 single heat sinks it gains heat only when walking with stealth. I did not know that before. So walking does indeed cause heat.

There is a recent detailed test in GD for heat sinks in water too.

http:// https://mwomercs.com...sinks-in-water/


I noted with the stealth PB that just running through shallow water caused a noticeable drop in heat.

[Star Lit Night]

I just did an actual test, using Mk1 eyeball, test is accurate +/- 1 second, so all values are approximate. It does appear that MG uses 10 rounds per second per machine gun.

Feel free to check my math.

Clan test:

PIR-1, with 1 ton of MG ammo and 10 machine guns

C-MG: 1.00 DPS @ 2200 rounds, 22 seconds. = 220 dmg/ton

C-LMG: 0.85 DPS @3200 rounds, 32 seconds = 272 dmg/ton

C-HMG: 1.40 DPS @1600 rounds, 16 seconds = 224 dmg/ton

IS test:

FLE-19 with 1/2 ton MG ammo (has 100% ammo buff = 1 ton total) and 5 machine Guns

MG: 1.00 DPS @2300 rounds, 46 seconds = 230 dmg/ton

LMG: 0.85 DPS @ 3600 rounds, 72 seconds = 306 dmg/ton

HMG: 1.50 DPS @ 1800 rounds, 36 seconds = 270 dmg/ton

[TheCaptainJZ]

Marcel Leander, on 01 July 2023 - 05:24 PM, said:

Also, taking enemy fire from certain weapons also increases heat.

The flamer is the only weapon that does this.

[KursedVixen]

wow if this is accurate the atm needs a buff.