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#1 Fu Sun

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Posted 06 July 2023 - 06:32 AM

I know for a fact the game isn't following FASA rules, the original way in which the RPG game of Mechwarrior was concieved.

Since the developers are pre-occupied with modifying the firing rate of a micropulse laser within 0.1 seconds of what it was before, I thought I'd throw in actual rules which were followed back in the 80s, when this game was commonly played on tabletops, with die cast models, and people recorded damage on sheets of paper.

When a person fires weapons into internal structure, such as the center torso, you can destroy a mech without "coring" it, that is, destroying every unit of internal structure. You only need three critical engine hits, and your mech is dead.

Now, you have to either core it, or the side, if it is an XL IS mech. I had ammo take a direct hit the other day. It did not result in total destruction of the side, as would be expected in a Clan mech, built in with CASE. I just carried on my merry way, as if the wind was at my back and the sun was shining. There is so much baloney coded into this game, which MSFT pays, minutia no one cares about, obvious promotions just to score some dough. They should sell it to a company that cares, in America.

I was legged in the air, and no mech legged in the air is dead until it hits the ground. A legless mech can fire weapons until such time, as long as not leg-mounted, until they land.

It would have been great if things like legs with exposed internals flood in water, FASA rules. As it is, this is just another game with robots fighting, a bastardization of the perfect original. To wit, many great mechs from then go unencoded.

I suggest you all go outside, it's summer, see the actual beach, if you live near one. Love life. It's out there, not in here, where it doesn't even go by what the creators intended.

Go ahead, change heavy machine gun to not cause as much damage as it once did, because it was actually fun that way. Make every mech equally lame, because that's the only way to achieve game balance. Make my day.

Posted Image

Edited by Fu Sun, 06 July 2023 - 06:33 AM.


#2 pbiggz

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Posted 06 July 2023 - 07:13 AM

this isn't tabletop.

It never was
it should never be.

#3 Obelix drives an Atlas

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Posted 06 July 2023 - 07:48 AM

don't change mwo into something it is NOT.

what you want is this:
https://megamek.org/

hope it helps :)

#4 KursedVixen

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Posted 06 July 2023 - 08:14 AM

MWo was never battletech to begin with just look at the clans and how nerfed down they are PGI didn't even try to make them a little Op they just tried to bring them down to the same level as IS then there's the Howl which completely breaks the rules of Omnimechs.

then there are mechs that never existed Sun spider/ roughneck.

This game is not battltech it's just a poor representation of if or a faulty copy of it.

#5 TheCaptainJZ

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Posted 06 July 2023 - 08:25 AM

We've been over this a thousand times. Table top rules don't work well here. They served as a starting point, that's all.

#6 confracto

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Posted 06 July 2023 - 05:59 PM

Or why not go with the fire rate system from the old solaris7 rules where streaks fire 4x in the same period as a PPC?
(I'm remembering something I haven't looked at in over 20 years, so take this with a grain of salt)

This game was meant to feel like BattleTech, and try to stay true to it under as many ways as it could, but weapon fire rate level of game balance was never something that was meant to adhere to that. It has to be a fun game to play, and has to have some level of balance, and that's always going to overrule adherence to a 39 year old system that has had almost no balance revisions.

#7 Bassault

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Posted 06 July 2023 - 06:27 PM

Yes, I would love to have dice rolls determine every single encounter, I'd love to just die instantly because I got random crit rolls on my engine, what an exciting and fair game.

Is there an accuracy penalty if my pilot sneezes or forgot to take a **** before he got in the cockpit? Or is it a piloting check? Maybe I should just fall over when that happens. Should we also had through armor criticals, so people can randomly out of nowhere explode and die even if they were at full health or winning the fight? You're a real genius.

Edited by Bassault, 06 July 2023 - 06:31 PM.


#8 LordNothing

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Posted 06 July 2023 - 07:28 PM

battletech rules were meant to simulate combat in a dice format through various look up tables and simple formulas. as such the rules are a very abstracted form of combat simulation. however as a simulator proper you could go with the original intent and forget most of the nuances of doing simulation with dice. mwo seems to use a little bit of dice throw mechanics with a bit of simulation with some fps baggage that i feel the game would be better without.

of course the franchise is so niche i don't think making it a hard sim would fly very well. but some features like dfa, sensors you can shoot out, maneuverable jump jets, more detailed damage modes (for example shooting out actuators, and particular weapons), truesplash, stackpoling, better ew, cof mechanics (though usually associated with bad military shooters, i think the mechanic is solid and belongs in a vehicular shooter). some of that just so skill is not synonymous with pixel alignment. and certainly a game thats more than just an arena shooter.

Edited by LordNothing, 06 July 2023 - 07:32 PM.


#9 Heavy Money

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Posted 06 July 2023 - 07:31 PM

I can tell the OP is complaining but I can't tell what the issue even really is or what they want.

#10 crazytimes IIC

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Posted 06 July 2023 - 10:32 PM

View PostHeavy Money, on 06 July 2023 - 07:31 PM, said:

I can tell the OP is complaining but I can't tell what the issue even really is or what they want.

They want tabletop rules in a FPS because that will be fun and stuff. I think he said "m'lady" in there somewhere too, that could have been the other thread though.

#11 Heavy Money

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Posted 06 July 2023 - 10:42 PM

View Postcrazytimes IIC, on 06 July 2023 - 10:32 PM, said:

They want tabletop rules in a FPS because that will be fun and stuff. I think he said "m'lady" in there somewhere too, that could have been the other thread though.


*tips giant fedora bolton*

#12 pbiggz

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Posted 07 July 2023 - 04:44 AM

View PostKursedVixen, on 06 July 2023 - 08:14 AM, said:

MWo was never battletech to begin with just look at the clans and how nerfed down they are PGI didn't even try to make them a little Op they just tried to bring them down to the same level as IS then there's the Howl which completely breaks the rules of Omnimechs.

then there are mechs that never existed Sun spider/ roughneck.

This game is not battltech it's just a poor representation of if or a faulty copy of it.


Its not a poor representation or a faulty copy. TT rules and stats don't work in a real time game. You need to get a grip.

#13 Memowolf

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Posted 07 July 2023 - 11:35 AM

No way tabletop rules could apply to this game. Not even the original Mechwarrior 2 did and this is a very good succesor to it. Maybe the only games that sort fo follow FASA rules are the Crescent Hawk's Inception, Revenge and the Mechcommanders. Tabletop rolls to hit a mech were based on target speed, your movements and so on, MWO is more of an "aim properly based on your weapon speed and shoot". Both are very enjoyable but different.

#14 TheCaptainJZ

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Posted 07 July 2023 - 12:07 PM

Mechcommander is only like TT when it comes to probability that the weapons hit, but that's about it. The weapons have different stats, the mech loadout is super simplified, and LRMs are handled as SRM 2 or LRM 5 and not individual missiles. That said, I absolutely enjoyed playing both of them.

Side note: One of the critiques of MechWarrior games is apparently the confusing mech lab. I thought MC2's overall approach with a grid to drag and drop items into was very simple and easy to understand but still forced choices (Heat was the other big constraint they used in a unique way). MW4 also had a pretty easy to understand mech lab (though I didn't play it as much so could be misremembering) so maybe a cross between the two.

#15 Memowolf

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Posted 07 July 2023 - 01:22 PM

View PostTheCaptainJZ, on 07 July 2023 - 12:07 PM, said:

Mechcommander is only like TT when it comes to probability that the weapons hit, but that's about it. The weapons have different stats, the mech loadout is super simplified, and LRMs are handled as SRM 2 or LRM 5 and not individual missiles. That said, I absolutely enjoyed playing both of them.

Side note: One of the critiques of MechWarrior games is apparently the confusing mech lab. I thought MC2's overall approach with a grid to drag and drop items into was very simple and easy to understand but still forced choices (Heat was the other big constraint they used in a unique way). MW4 also had a pretty easy to understand mech lab (though I didn't play it as much so could be misremembering) so maybe a cross between the two.



True, neither followed TT rules per se but definitely more than MW2 :) . That said I have enjoyed all games but played much more Mechcommander , MW2 and Mercenaries than MW4. Loved LRMs and Arrow. Loved the missions including underwater and space missions where open armor flooded tue whole section. MWO is for me the latest installment of teh Mechwarrior series minus the missions.

#16 Delete Dragon

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Posted 09 July 2023 - 01:04 PM

No boomer reference yet? Y'all are slipping.

#17 Spheroid

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Posted 09 July 2023 - 02:36 PM

View PostKursedVixen, on 06 July 2023 - 08:14 AM, said:

then there's the Howl which completely breaks the rules of Omnimechs.


I fail to see what rules PGI is supposedly breaking. Its a standard battletech. Switching from standard to omni is hardly without precedent. Examples include the standard Clan tech version of the Nova the Blackhawk, the I.S. Argus which was prototyped as a omnimech and you very own Arctic Wolf that you mention in your forum caption. Same name and tonnage, yet different construction methodology.

#18 PocketYoda

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Posted 09 July 2023 - 10:26 PM

Technically wasn't Mechwarrior the board game in the 80s and different to Battletech.. I have vague recolections.. That said i do wish MWO followed BT more closely.. slower game play, less call of duty shenanigans.. myself..

I understand the modern hyperactive generations have no patience these days too busy with hyper TTK games and Tiktok..

I miss the 80s.

View PostSpheroid, on 09 July 2023 - 02:36 PM, said:


I fail to see what rules PGI is supposedly breaking. Its a standard battletech. Switching from standard to omni is hardly without precedent. Examples include the standard Clan tech version of the Nova the Blackhawk, the I.S. Argus which was prototyped as a omnimech and you very own Arctic Wolf that you mention in your forum caption. Same name and tonnage, yet different construction methodology.



Clan Timberwolves never had Battletechs.. They were all omnimechs, by definition.

Edited by PocketYoda, 09 July 2023 - 10:31 PM.


#19 Marcel Leander

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Posted 10 July 2023 - 12:48 AM

View PostPocketYoda, on 09 July 2023 - 10:26 PM, said:

Technically wasn't Mechwarrior the board game in the 80s and different to Battletech.. I have vague recolections.. That said i do wish MWO followed BT more closely.. slower game play, less call of duty shenanigans.. myself..


The Mechwarrior that came out in 1986 was the Dungeons and Dragons style TTRPG. It was pretty cool because you could level up your pilot and then they would have better skills when you played them in a regular Battletech game. There were three editions before Catalyst bought it and renamed third edition to Classic Battletech RPG. Then they rewrote the whole thing as Battletech: Time of War, and finally the newest iteration is back to Mechwarrior as Mechwarrior: Destiny.

https://www.sarna.ne...le_Playing_Game

#20 pbiggz

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Posted 10 July 2023 - 05:27 AM

View PostPocketYoda, on 09 July 2023 - 10:26 PM, said:

i do wish MWO followed BT more closely.. slower game play, less call of duty shenanigans.. myself..


This game is already very methodical. What you dont like is having to compete. That's actually fine, but its always been an issue for this game. Half the player base wants mechwarrior 2 mercs, the other wants a contemporary competitive shooter. Those things do run at odds to each other, and its clear the game is the shooter, not the action sim/rpg that the old fogies want.

View PostPocketYoda, on 09 July 2023 - 10:26 PM, said:

I understand the modern hyperactive generations have no patience these days too busy with hyper TTK games and Tiktok..


You are not better than young people.

View PostPocketYoda, on 09 July 2023 - 10:26 PM, said:

I miss the 80s.


No you dont.

View PostPocketYoda, on 09 July 2023 - 10:26 PM, said:

Clan Timberwolves never had Battletechs.. They were all omnimechs, by definition.


Im assuming what you mean is clan timberwolves were never battlemechs and for someone as obsessed with the old game as you purport to be, im surprised you don't know the battletech TT rules allow for an omnimech to "become" a battlemech if you modify the internals. At least i recall that's something that was possible. At that point, you lose all the omnimech features, but also the restrictions.

Its a very strange hill for you to spontaneously decide to die on, especially since you're getting it wrong.



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