79 replies to this topic

[RockmachinE]

Everyone's thoughts on Scrapyard?

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I understand Its a work in progress, but so far I'm not liking it.

The map is very dark, thermals won't show terrain very well, nv won't show distant targets very well and normal vision is very limited too. One is forced to juggle visions and none really seems adequate at any one point. Of course you could just adjust the gamma out of game, but this should not be a requirement. Visually the darker tone is atmospheric and interesting, but it is so unfortunately at the expense of gameplay.

The lanes and routes are very tight with limited space for maneuvering which leads to static uninteresting combat and non JJ mechs being funneled and bottlenecked into kill zones.

The scrap cover sticking out of the terrain is inconsistent. Some objects you can shoot through while other scrap with apparently bigger holes in them you can't, making it hard to tell which pieces provide cover and which don't. Some objects you can straight up walk through completely, this is not bad in itself, but there's no consistency between which cover is real and which just visual.

The map seems to be fairly unimaginative, featureless and flat dynamics wise. The atmosphere and theme is great.

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Suggestions for improvement. The lighting needs to be optimized somehow to create more contrast between mechs and the environment or at least improved to work with thermals better. The lanes need to be widened and bottlenecks fewer. Consistency in scrap cover needs to be fixed and preferably more routes and options for non JJ mechs to get to higher ground and out of the funnels.Some sort of prominent feature or highlight needs to be added to the map.

Edited by RockmachinE, 25 July 2023 - 02:24 PM.

[Karhyy]

Played it once only and it's already on my "anything but this" map list. Can't fault them for trying new things, but the map indeed is way way too dark and I don't want to be one of those people that turn their gamma/brightness/whatever to 200% so they can see everything clearly. Although on the other hand one of the saving graces of the map is that at least for me it's the only map where night vision actually improves things, but just slightly. And even that is only in close-mid ranges, it has the same problem as thermal vision aka only makes it harder to see at long range.

[Ilostmycactus]

The lighting is pretty punishing and just highlights the problems with mwo's lighting contrast and mech colors. Battletech is supposed to be about fun livery and patterns and whatever else. But if you don't spam black on all of your mechs then you're just punished immediately for it. Want to have a fun bright color? Enjoy getting singled out. And it's not like you can camo into light maps, only the dark ones. Most of the time night vision is completely useless and you have to use thermals to see edges of mechs on dark maps. Thermals have pathetic range on the new map. I'll throw in the ridiculous muzzle flash from your own weapons too (no one has invented filtered glass?).

[Tromoskyon Rex]

So far I love it. It is a break from the bright long line of sight maps that usually get voted. It could be a touch brighter but I really like needing to use night vision and it actually working well. I also love the Metro series for being so dark, so take that for what you will. The center is a brawl fest and channels where you can move better than Solaris to keep you from getting laserd in the *** while fighting. I want to take a crack at it in my Huntsman PA SRM boat to see how dirty it is with the jump jets.

[feeWAIVER]

I haven't played it ingame, but I just ran through the training grounds on it.

Tons of maneuverable hills. Great spacing. Lots of little cover placements.
Tons of places to fight, I didn't see any dead zone.

I think this is gonna turn out to be one of the best maps in the game.

[SafeScanner]

the fog works well against stealth mechs


other than that i kinda like it and i kinda don't

Edited by SafeScanner, 25 July 2023 - 02:55 PM.

[RockmachinE]

feeWAIVER, on 25 July 2023 - 02:39 PM, said:

I think this is gonna turn out to be one of the best maps in the game.

Reserve that thought until you play it. If it remains as it is it will be one of those no vote maps.

[feeWAIVER]

RockmachinE, on 25 July 2023 - 02:48 PM, said:

Reserve that thought until you play it. If it remains as it is it will be one of those no vote maps.

I just played it [skirmish], and I had a great game.

Edited by feeWAIVER, 25 July 2023 - 03:21 PM.

[Mal Bolge]

It has potential once it gets some light. Right now its just black silhouettes on either grey or black background. Can't really see anything. Great for those who want to hide their paint jobs of course, so there is that, but I'd prefer a map where you can see.

[Ihlrath]

So a map I'm not spotted immediately by Chad R.R. Snipuurrrr sitting on a ridge map edge camping? Tell me more good sir.

[feeWAIVER]

Just played 2 domination matches.

I think this map might have the best pee stain in the game.

[Tromoskyon Rex]

feeWAIVER, on 25 July 2023 - 03:20 PM, said:

Just played 2 domination matches.

I think this map might have the best pee stain in the game.

Right? It is like the death ball Canyon would be if 69 dudes with ER LL couldn't poke you from accross the map.

[Leadpaintchips]

The lanes are rather easy to get out of in my experience, so it's not like canyon where you're hard committed to that run and tough luck if they got the high ground. I know I might get a lot of flack for it, but it feels like the coliseum pre mushrooms where you could actually break line of sight on LURMs or snipers without completely gutting their use.

The dark terrain I don't think isn't going to be fun when the stealth 'mech players go all in on the black though. Ya, the skyline and the fog puddles do a good job of highlighting 'mechs either on the ridgelines or in the valleys, but for the in between I feel is going to be an issue.

[TheCaptainJZ]

I haven't played it yet, but sounds like ambient light from a moon would do the trick. But night mode needs the range extended and the contrast improved to make it more useful in general.

[Gilgamesh Hoi]

Don't change the light settings PGI!!!! Its fantastic as is!

Not every map has to have in an easy to spot lighting setup for people who can't be bothered, seriously its great. Map offers plenty of challenge and rewards for pilots willing to maneuver and think about position.

This map rewards situational awareness, more maps need this.

I've played 10 matches, and had a great time, not one stomp in the bunch.

Cheers PGI!!!

[PocketYoda]

RockmachinE, on 25 July 2023 - 01:27 PM, said:

Everyone's thoughts on Scrapyard?

The map is very dark, thermals won't show terrain very well, nv won't show distant targets very well and normal vision is very limited too. One is forced to juggle visions and none really seems adequate at any one point. Of course you could just adjust the gamma out of game, but this should not be a requirement. Visually the darker tone is atmospheric and interesting, but it is so unfortunately at the expense of gameplay.

When i saw the pictures that was my worry, my eyes are not what they used to be in the dark.. Dark games give me eye strain.

Edited by PocketYoda, 25 July 2023 - 05:24 PM.

[RickySpanish]

It's good, I quite like it. Night vision could work a little bit better though, it still seems to fade out too soon. Often you just shoot at the middle of the red box and pray. The aesthetic is very cool, and I enjoy the premise of the visibility being something you have to contend with, without there being tons of fog in the way. The lanes and cover are OK, but in some places the terrain is deceptively steep. I feel like maybe there could be one or two areas with light, to add reference points other than the sky line, for example from flood lamps.

Edited by RickySpanish, 25 July 2023 - 09:02 PM.

[FatManBlue]

If they're going to keep this map in the rotation they gonna have to issue me spot lights. I did see a nice instance when something seemed to exploded lighting up the area for a micro second.

[Karhyy]

Karhyy, on 25 July 2023 - 01:37 PM, said:

Played it once only and it's already on my "anything but this" map list. Can't fault them for trying new things, but the map indeed is way way too dark and I don't want to be one of those people that turn their gamma/brightness/whatever to 200% so they can see everything clearly. Although on the other hand one of the saving graces of the map is that at least for me it's the only map where night vision actually improves things, but just slightly. And even that is only in close-mid ranges, it has the same problem as thermal vision aka only makes it harder to see at long range.

Well after few more games I'm having conflicting feelings. For close range brawly games it's actually pretty fun, kind of like canyon network, but this time it's actually possible to flank the enemy without having to rotate the whole map for it and spend many many minutes doing it only to find out that the enemy rotated away already, plenty of alternative ways/branches in the middle to get back/side shots of people without situational awareness. Domination is perfect on this map.

But games that don't turn into close range brawls? Absolutely horrible. Night vision doesn't work at long ranges and neither does thermal vision so have fun trying to spot the stealthy sniper with camoblack paintjob within all the dark hills. But don't worry, he will know where you are and you just have to wait for him to shoot first!

[TheCaptainJZ]

After playing it, I didn't find it unbearably dark. It felt right. You do need to use thermal or night vision some of the time. but the sky and the low fog on the ground contrasts well. If they add a little ambient light, that would be ok. I think if they add spot lighting, it will sorta ruin the atmosphere. It'd have to be used sparingly. The little light path markers from classic Terra Therma would be fine. I don't think they cast light, but they can be used to outline paths. to break up the black ground and allow for some depth of vision without using a visual mode.